Stereo Amp and Pre-Amp v Receiver for music

[niceshoes]

I'm currently using a basic Yamaha 5.1 A/V receiver to listen to music and movies. When I listen to music i prefer to switch the amplifier to "Stereo Effect" and just listen through the mains and subwoofer.

Now, personally, music is far more important to me than movies. I'll sit and listen to music for hours, from the beginning to the end of an album.

I don't really understand how amplifiers work, but I wanted to know whether it would improve the music listening experience if I had a dedicated stereo amplifier and pre-amp for listening to music, or would I not be able to tell the difference from my current receiver?

 

[skers_54]

From what I've read, and based on my experiences, a receiver and a pre-pro/amp should give similar performance at moderate listening levels as long as the speakers are adequetely powered and the amp/receiver isn't driven to clipping. I'm not an expert by any means, but I think that upgrading your speakers would be more noticable, especially if your current receiver is adequetely powering your speakers. The biggest advantage of seperates is the higher power dedicated amps provide, as well as the ability to upgrade processing and amplification individually. If your receiver has pre-outs, you could also add an amp to power your front channels.

 

[niceshoes]

I'm not really interested in achieving any increased loudness (it's already louder than I can tolerate), just wondering if there might be any achievable improvement in richness or texture of sound.

I read some of the threads on this board which suggested that expensive A/v Receivers sound exactly the same as cheap ones, and I'm wondering if the same logic applies to stereo amps and pre-amps versus receivers when listening to music.

For example, is there any benefit to using the pre-outs on my reciever to use a separate power amp for my mains, other than increased loudness?

 

[Seth=L]

It depends on your speakers. The preamp section on the Yamaha should be great, very comparable to exclusive preamps. The only major difference is price (the seperates cost more because many "believe" their performance is better, the cost to make them is also higher per unit because they don't make as many). Other things on preamps factor in as well, such as simplicity, certain features, warranty, and possible better customer service for the product (though I have heard Yamaha has pretty good customer service).

Take for example the Yamaha RX-V663 which you can find online for less than $400. It has preouts, just like a preamp, as well as all the latest in audio decoding that you could possibly need for any current media. If you have speakers with moderate to high efficiency with 6-8 ohm nominal impedance the onboard amplifier on the Yamaha RX-V663 would be adequate to fill all but the largest of rooms with very respectable clean output.

Of course other manufacturers offer comparable receivers to the Yamaha RX-V663. I only mention the Yamaha because A. you mentioned you are using a basic Yamaha 5.1 receiver at this time and B. I believe it represents an outstanding value given it's performance and features.

In case it's not completely obvious I don't buy into the seperates sound better than receivers perscribed nonsense. Just like all markets there is a high end market that offers no real advantage other than making the buyer feel as though they got the best they could afford. This is also true in all facets of audio, even speakers, so you must be careful when researching and ultimately shopping for new or/and especially used gear.

Speakers, room accoustics, and your media dictate 90% of your sound. The remaining 10% relies on you having adequate electronics behind it. This doesn't mean that if you spend $2000 on stereo speakers that you should spend $1000 on amplification (and certainly don't blow funds on cables). I know when I say "adequate" you must be thinking "what he's saying is it's just OK" or "it's just enough, but spending more could get me better performance,...right?". That would most commonly be untrue. Assuming you give your speakers enough clean power* the speakers will do what they do best. Basically the only matching that needs to be done is making you can meet your clean power needs.

*If your amplifier is not clipping audibly you are getting a neutral sound from your amplifier, unaltered (audibly) from the original source.

 

[Seth=L]

I'm not really interested in achieving any increased loudness (it's already louder than I can tolerate), just wondering if there might be any achievable improvement in richness or texture of sound.

I read some of the threads on this board which suggested that expensive A/v Receivers sound exactly the same as cheap ones, and I'm wondering if the same logic applies to stereo amps and pre-amps versus receivers when listening to music.

For example, is there any benefit to using the pre-outs on my reciever to use a separate power amp for my mains, other than increased loudness?

If you are wanting to change the sound of your system you best do it by changing speakers or treating your room. Adding amplification won't do a thing unless you have been experiencing clipping. What speakers do you have?

 

[niceshoes]

What speakers do you have?

The speakers are all energy reference connoisseur which i believe are moderately sensitive, at 91db.

My receiver is 65 WPC and I don't think I have heard clipping. what does clipping sounds like? like analogue distortion? As far as I can tell the sound is distortion free.

Like I said above, my main concern is in the richness or texture of the sound. If you don't think I can improve on sound quality through a dedicated stereo amp + preamp I won't bother upgrading - I'm not into spending money for something that isn't going to sound noticeably better

 

[niceshoes]

I'm asking partly because I was reading this website:

http://www.whydoesmyhometheatersuck.com/

(enter the site and click the link to "the ideal set-up for $10,000")

Where the guy claims that having a pre-amp with dedicated power amps for each channel is more important in improving sound quality than buying quality speakers.

It seems crazy to me that having 4 massive amplifiers on your shelf is necessary to achieve great sound - isn't there just one integrated solution that will give the same performance without having to buy so much hardware?

 

[markw]

Virtually all "stereo" setups I can think of are fairly plain and simple. A preamp and power amp and that's it.

Most HT receivers filter everythng through a digital processor of some sorts, ususlly co-mngled with the preamp stages. If you're using any signal processing at all (and this "stereo effect" has me curious), then a basic stereo amp won't suffice.

Some offer a "pure direct" mode that is supposed to take all the superfulous processing out of the system, but it sounds like you're still using some sort of processing, if only for the subwoofer.

This is not to say that you can't use a subwoofer with a stereo system, but it won't be exactly the same as it is with a full-blown HT receiver.

I've got both a stand-alone "stereo" system and a 5.1 HT system and, owing to the difference in the speakers employed, a direct comparison isn't really feasable but I will say that my meager Denon/Athena HT sounds pretty decent in the 2 channel "stereo" mode, with the sub running at -10 db in the stereo mode.

On the whole, though, I prefer my 2 channel system for music but that's really an apples to oranges comparison.

But, ultimately, if you have good source software, the quality of the speakers determine the overalll sound of the system, assuming you have enough clean power to drive them.

 

[fmw]

I'm not really interested in achieving any increased loudness (it's already louder than I can tolerate), just wondering if there might be any achievable improvement in richness or texture of sound.

There is no such thing as "richness" or "texture" in audio waveform amplification. The amplifiers simply take what is there and increase the amplitude of the waveforms. They don't do anything else. Whatever "richness" was there will be louder. If the sound you hear now is clear and undistorted at your normal listening levels then all is well. You can add components if you like but don't expect a sonic difference.