Statin Drugs

[philh]

Ok, has absolutely nothing to do with Audio, but I'm on a crusade that uses the fundemental's of this web site.

Statin drugs are used to lower cholesterol, and are very effective doing that. Unfortunately, the drug companies have skewed the data to demonstrate huge benefits. There is so little affect on overall mortality or heart disease, it could easily be explained by noise. Zocor study eliminated roughly one third of the participants in the six week (excessively long) lead in to the study. A large portion due to side effects. The data results are presented as relative risk improvement, 25% (actual 21%, but what's a few points among friends). Absolute risk showed an extremely low improvement of 1.5%, plus they did not talk about the increased risk of cardiac failure. Zocor has the lowest rate of side effects, the others are worse.

The next question that needs to be asked is do we even need to lower our cholesterol levels. According to a study done in Japan, the ideal level for maximum life expectancy is 240. Several very reputable researchers are beginning to believe that cholesterol has little to do with heart disease.

Read the actual studies, don't take your Dr's word for it. Research, study the data, listen, because too many in the medical community don't.

 

[guess88]

eh.. i generally look at it like this.

The relationship with high cholesterol and heart disease.. is, to me, most people who have high cholesterol are fat. Now there's different degree's to fatness, but in general, especially in America, they're out of shape. Being out of shape is the BIGGEST factor working against people trying to live a long and healthy life. Keep yourself physically active, think twice about what and why you're eating, and you'll generally be good.

 

[3beanlimit]

Ummm....ok..

 

[MDS]

The next question that needs to be asked is do we even need to lower our cholesterol levels. According to a study done in Japan, the ideal level for maximum life expectancy is 240. Several very reputable researchers are beginning to believe that cholesterol has little to do with heart disease.

Cholesterol is produced by the body to repair damaged arteries. Food can be high in cholesterol as well. The problem is that as your arteries weaken over time due to either genetics or poor diet, more and more cholesterol is produced and it accumulates on the arties. Once the arteries are too clogged, you are susceptible to a heart attack.

Enter the drug companies once again to promote drugs that combat the symptom not the cause. Sure the statins can help lower cholesterol, but do absolutely nothing to cure the real problem which is the weakening of the arteries. In exchange, you get an increased risk of liver failure and heart failure.

There are dozens of natural foods and substances that reduce cholesterol as well as combat the build-up of soft plaque on the artery walls: whole grains, fruits (especially grapefruit), Omega 6 from fish, Flax seed, ProFibe (modified fruit pectin you mix with water or juice, developed by the University of Florida.), Vitamin C, the amino acids L-Lysine and L-Proline, etc.

The general public wants a pill to cure all ills and the drug companies are happy to oblige. Read the fine print and you will see 'Lipitor (et al) has not been shown to prevent heart disease'. All they do is lower your cholesterol, increase the risk of liver damage, and all the while do absolutely nothing to address the real problem of your clogged arteries.

Do nothing but take Lipitor or the like and you will still die of a heart attack, but hey your cholesterol score will be low!

 

[philh]

This of course led to the diet question, what is the best diet.

IMHO, I'm coming down on the side of grandma's balanced diet MINUS high glycemic load foods, ie high carb food. My cholestrol dropped 70 points and the even more important triglycerides dropped almost 200 points by getting rid of the senseless sugars. No more pop, cookies, cake, etc. My idiot dr, who I've since fired, said it was physically impossible to increase saturated fat intake and lower cholesterol. Not only is it possible, but desirable. New dr. took one look at the test results and said "you eliminated sugar, didn't you".

 

[Gremlin]

... No more pop, cookies, cake, etc. My idiot dr, who I've since fired, said it was physically impossible to increase saturated fat intake and lower cholesterol. ...

It's the ratio of saturated fat (coconut and palm fat, dairy fat, eggs, cocoa, beef, pork in roughly descending order) and trans-fatty acids (partially hardened fats and dairy fat) to unsaturated fatty acids (most plant oils - all nuts and seeds, olives and avocados - basically everything not listed above, and sea-fish) that matters.

E.g., adding more olive oil to a diet will increase total saturated fat, but tend to lower the ratio of SF to USF, and thus help prevent arteriosclerosis.

I basically share "Anonymous"' point of view. Saturated fat and trans-fatty acids, being inelastic, harden the cell walls in our blood vessels. The ratio of SF to USF is so important because, when constructing cell walls, our body cannot distinguish between "inelastic" fatty acids and "elastic" unsaturated ones. This means the ratio as found in the food is closely mirrored in our cell walls. Hardening of the arteries leads to high blood pressure, and both in combination cause microscopic fissions in our arterial linings. The body tries to repair these fissions through increased LDL cholesterol output. So, to effectively lower your risk of heart disease (and stroke), you must fight the cause, which is a high ratio of saturated fat and trans-fatty acids to unsaturated fat.

PS: A 1990s study put 1/2 of a group of French heart-attack survivors on a diet low in saturated fat and high in monounsaturated fat, as e.g. richly found in olive oil and hazelnuts. It turned out that the low-SF group had a 70% reduced risk of suffering another heart attack compared to the group that would continue with their "normal" eating habits. ISTM no kind of cholesterol-lowering medication could offer this kind of benefit.

 

[sts9fan]

You all are missing the point

It comes down to the fact that these drugs are no better then other types that are cheap and proven safe. Main diaretics

 

[Francious70]

Cholesterol is produced by the body to repair damaged arteries. Food can be high in cholesterol as well. The problem is that as your arteries weaken over time due to either genetics or poor diet, more and more cholesterol is produced and it accumulates on the arties. Once the arteries are too clogged, you are susceptible to a heart attack.

Enter the drug companies once again to promote drugs that combat the symptom not the cause. Sure the statins can help lower cholesterol, but do absolutely nothing to cure the real problem which is the weakening of the arteries. In exchange, you get an increased risk of liver failure and heart failure.

There are dozens of natural foods and substances that reduce cholesterol as well as combat the build-up of soft plaque on the artery walls: whole grains, fruits (especially grapefruit), Omega 6 from fish, Flax seed, ProFibe (modified fruit pectin you mix with water or juice, developed by the University of Florida.), Vitamin C, the amino acids L-Lysine and L-Proline, etc.

The general public wants a pill to cure all ills and the drug companies are happy to oblige. Read the fine print and you will see 'Lipitor (et al) has not been shown to prevent heart disease'. All they do is lower your cholesterol, increase the risk of liver damage, and all the while do absolutely nothing to address the real problem of your clogged arteries.

Do nothing but take Lipitor or the like and you will still die of a heart attack, but hey your cholesterol score will be low!

Umm... I agree??

Paul

 

[mtrycrafts]

It comes down to the fact that these drugs are no better then other types that are cheap and proven safe. Main diaretics

What would these alternatives be? Proven by whom? Published in journals with reputation?

 

[Audioholics]

Be careful. Sometimes medical hournals only prove what the concensus of opinion is, coupled with poorly run sample data.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Be careful. Sometimes medical hournals only prove what the concensus of opinion is, coupled with poorly run sample data.

Then what sources are we to rely on? Alt med monthly? CAM daliy

 

[philh]

Then what sources are we to rely on? Alt med monthly? CAM daliy

I found it interesting to read the actual studies. Learned a lot about absolute and relative risk improvements.

Statins are being sold by the drug companies on the 25%+ improvement in reduced cholesterol levels. The Dr's are selling the drugs as a 25%+ reduced risk in heart disease and/or heart attack. Already we're dealing with a different set. Absolute risk assessement shows very low or no improvement in heart disease or heart attack. Relative risk shows the 25% improvement. I have a problem with the relative risk assessement, because the numbers are so low, compared to the entire study population.

If I took 1,000 receivers and received 2 bad ones from Denon (sp?) and one bad one from Bose, using drug company math, Bose are twice as good as Denon. The Zocor study data is in a nice PP presentation on lipid.org website. 20,500+ participants, 577 died in five years from CHD on Zocor, 701 died while on the placebo. Therefore (according to study), there was a 25% reduction in risk. An interesting side note about the Zocor study, during the lead in phase, they had almost 10,000 people drop out of the study, because they were unwilling or unable to take the drug. Another interesting piece of information that is buried in the data, someone taking a statin drug is more likely to die from heart failure following a heart attack then someone on a placebo.

More and more Dr's are backing away from Statin's, because the data just doesn't support the claims, and the risk of side effects are much higher then reported. It's also interesting to note, the study where the claim was made about cholesterol v heart attack risk, didn't release the data until years later. Guess what, the data did not support the study claims.

Trans fatty acids are bad for the body. High glycemic foods are also bad. As I said before, I cut my cholesterol 70 points on diet alone. Saturated fat consumption increase, "senseless" carbs went down, and I dropped 70 points. My Dr, since fired, absolutely refused to believe that diet could affect it that much, and especially refused to believe my diet would lower it.

 

[shokhead]

HC isnt only in fat people,thats stupit.
I'd fire a dr that thinks a diet wont help reduce HC.
Plenty of us get it from our parent and nothing but satins will lower it.
Plenty of research has been done,not by doctors that states the benifits and side benifits of satin drugs.

I havent heard or read where any medical advice that says to just take this pill,its always includes diet and exercise.
Mine was 295 and found my accident when i had kidney stones.I already watched what i ate and already was riding my bike 100 miles aweek and @6',190 was pretty normal.After starting on satins,it was 265 and after double the dose it was 205.
I really could care less if anyone belives this stuff works. Go die early,make no diff to me.

 

[philh]

HC isnt only in fat people,thats stupit.
I'd fire a dr that thinks a diet wont help reduce HC.
Plenty of us get it from our parent and nothing but satins will lower it.
Plenty of research has been done,not by doctors that states the benifits and side benifits of satin drugs.

I havent heard or read where any medical advice that says to just take this pill,its always includes diet and exercise.
Mine was 295 and found my accident when i had kidney stones.I already watched what i ate and already was riding my bike 100 miles aweek and @6',190 was pretty normal.After starting on satins,it was 265 and after double the dose it was 205.
I really could care less if anyone belives this stuff works. Go die early,make no diff to me.

Big study done in Japan, showed the longest life expectancy occured at a cholesterol level at 240. The studys show only a very very slight change in the risk of heart attack.

My Dr's advice was to take the pill, and come back in three months. I was very near your cholesterol score, although not quite as active, and cut the cholestrol way down eliminating the pop, cookies, pasta, etc.

On statin's your risk of heart failure is actually increased. CoQ10 has shown some promise in reducing that risk. In Japan, statins are blended with CoQ10 by law. In Canada, statin prescriptions are given with advice to take CoQ10. Statins reduce the CoQ10, which the muscles use for energy. The heart is a pretty big muscle.

 

[rock1]

Hello everyone,

Well for good helth this is very much required to use the good food and balanced food but after these we have to face the problems due to some of our bad habits.One of my friend is addicted to the alchohol and he is in very serious situation now his liver has been damaged now .His doctor suggests him to use the Isoniazid medication and also the precautions for that.