Spineless Newspapers

[jinjuku]

The latest story in the epitaph of the great country we used to be. I long for the days when government wasn't run by big business:

The August 26th and Sept 2nd Opus comic will be censored (as in NOT PUBLISHED). Here is the link to the strip in question. How spineless can you get? I am truly ashamed. For more detail

 

[stratman]

I think I missed something, how did the government stop the cartoon from being published?

 

[pzaur]

I think I missed something, how did the government stop the cartoon from being published?

The government didn't. It's the newspapers who are self-censoring everything not in line with the politically correct crowd. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the strip. It's a shame that some topics are completely taboo while others (name any other religion) can be gone after like a QB on the football field.

-pat

 

[stratman]

The government didn't. It's the newspapers who are self-censoring everything not in line with the politically correct crowd. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the strip. It's a shame that some topics are completely taboo while others (name any other religion) can be gone after like a QB on the football field.

-pat

Right Pat, that's what I thought, big business nor the government had anything to do with this, ironically it's the politically correct, left leaning press doing it to one of their own. I bet if it would have judaism or christianity it would've passed muster and been printed, but since its muslim ,look out you can't offend the victims. This is the extreme bias in the press, yet this has nothing to do with this administration (wether a person likes it or not) nor big business.

 

[Johnd]

I think I missed something, how did the government stop the cartoon from being published?

Neanderthal...I take it all back. You are at times...cerebral.

Yeah. Nowhere do I see the "government" preventing the publication of this comic. It is the publisher. And being the publisher in the private sector, he (she or it) has authority to decide what does and does not get published in the paper he oversees. In fact, he not only has the authority, he has the duty.

Whilst I certainly see the "humor", those in charge need to remain cognizant of offending certain religions. I care not about offending extremists that murder innocents. But this comic runs the risk of offending a great deal of Muslims at large. This decision is well within the provence of the publisher.

 

[no. 5]

Hmmm... it ran in my local newspaper.

 

[stratman]

Neanderthal...I take it all back. You are at times...cerebral.

Yeah. Nowhere do I see the "government" preventing the publication of this comic. It is the publisher. And being the publisher in the private sector, he (she or it) has authority to decide what does and does not get published in the paper he oversees. In fact, he not only has the authority, he has the duty.

Whilst I certainly see the "humor", those in charge need to remain cognizant of offending certain religions. I care not about offending extremists that murder innocents. But this comic runs the risk of offending a great deal of Muslims at large. This decision is well within the provence of the publisher.

Well I was just waiting for you to chime in! First of all, good evening. And I agree I don't like to offend people in the least, it use to be though that irreverent cartoons as these were published with no consequences, now everyone's afraid.

 

[Johnd]

Well I was just waiting for you to chime in! First of all, good evening. And I agree I don't like to offend people in the least, it use to be though that irreverent cartoons as these were published with no consequences, now everyone's afraid.

Good evening back strat.

Perhaps. But here we are. Nowadays people can (and do) go to jail for spanking their child. When I was a kid a whooping that drew blood didn't raise a brow.

Again, the offensive part is far less the "Radical Islamist" usage than "Amish Nudist", "fatima" and "Muslim" in general. I see several slights toward the Muslim religion.

 

[Davemcc]

First, nobody including Muslims have a "right" to live a life without being offended, which is something that appears to happen a lot with Muslims. The problem is that offending Muslims often causes rioting and death. The Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed caused roughly 100 deaths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy
I think that this self-censorship is driven as much by the implicit threat of violent retribution and/or murder as much as offending delicate, or should I say hair-trigger sensitivities. As has been mentioned, all other religions are targets for comedy but Islam.

Parody is a long established form of humour that is a valid way of highlighting the weakness, illogic, ignorance, hypocracy, etc of a person or group. That Islam is immune from criticism in the media either directly or by parody due to the implied threat of rioting or violence is in itself a shame and evidence of the need for open and critical discussion of the Dark Ages mentality of Islamic fundamentalism.

 

[Johnd]

First, nobody including Muslims have a "right" to live a life without being offended, which is something that appears to happen a lot with Muslims.

Well...Dave, I'm glad you got that off your chest.

But back on point. In the instant case, the concern of the publisher is to not offend a whole "religion". I read your post. You are entitled.

Did you ever stop and think that were we to stop pointing out our differences we may be able to coexist more peacefully?

The difference is this is not Eddie Murphy doing his "thing" via admission or ppv. This is a publisher with responsibilities to his board and stockholders, as well as the general public. There is a limit. Like it or not, there is absolutely a limit. Your post failed to mention that. Should nothing be held inviolate? Some believe it our God-given right to see, feel, hear, read and eat everthing at little or no price. Some people just fail to see it with all our freedoms. Some people fail to see a limit. Some people fail to recognize the costs of freedoms. Some people believe everything can be compromised. I am not such a person.

 

[Davemcc]

Did you ever stop and think that were we to stop pointing out our differences we may be able to coexist more peacefully?

You are unlikely to find a more "live and let live" person than me. Like it or not, the world is divided up into people that believe in the us vs. them mentality and get hyper-sensitive or offended when the "us" part is subject to critical examination. Forgive me for pointing that out.

Should nothing be held inviolate?

Actually, yes. Truth is discovered in critical examination and open discussion. Corruption, depravity, despotism and repression thrive in their absence. The Catholic Church dominated western culture for centuries by controlling the political, intellectual and spiritual traditions of the culture, murdering heretics, disbelievers and dissenters and stifling free thought and open expression. It has only been since the late 19th century that free thought, free speech, critical examination and open discussion have flourished. The result has been civilization.

Should we cease to examine, question or discuss the issues of our times, surely we are heading back to another dark age. Islam should be no more free of such critical examination than any other movement of our time. Perhaps it is more deserving of of such scrutiny, since the prevailing trend of Islam where it has been realized to its fullest extent is the return of such repression, lack of freedom and civil liberties and prohibition of free thought and expression that it mirrors the Dark Ages.

If a cartoon can open the discussion, so be it but there's no reason that 100 people must die in the process. It is this implicit (and demonstrated) threat of violence and murder that I am reacting against.

 

[stratman]

You are unlikely to find a more "live and let live" person than me. Like it or not, the world is divided up into people that believe in the us vs. them mentality and get hyper-sensitive or offended when the "us" part is subject to critical examination. Forgive me for pointing that out.



Actually, yes. Truth is discovered in critical examination and open discussion. Corruption, depravity, despotism and repression thrive in their absence. The Catholic Church dominated western culture for centuries by controlling the political, intellectual and spiritual traditions of the culture, murdering heretics, disbelievers and dissenters and stifling free thought and open expression. It has only been since the late 19th century that free thought, free speech, critical examination and open discussion have flourished. The result has been civilization.

Should we cease to examine, question or discuss the issues of our times, surely we are heading back to another dark age. Islam should be no more free of such critical examination than any other movement of our time. Perhaps it is more deserving of of such scrutiny, since the prevailing trend of Islam where it has been realized to its fullest extent is the return of such repression, lack of freedom and civil liberties and prohibition of free thought and expression that it mirrors the Dark Ages.

If a cartoon can open the discussion, so be it but there's no reason that 100 people must die in the process. It is this implicit (and demonstrated) threat of violence and murder that I am reacting against.

AMEN TO THAT!!!

 

[Johnd]

You are unlikely to find a more "live and let live" person than me.

The Catholic Church dominated western culture for centuries by controlling the political, intellectual and spiritual traditions of the culture, murdering heretics, disbelievers and dissenters and stifling free thought and open expression.

Hmmmm.

So both Islam and Catholicism are the perpetrators of evil, are they? What religion, if any, is not on your hit list?

I preach tolerance. I am intolerant of intolerance. You bring a whole new meaning to "tolerance." I've always though "let live" includes not disparaging others...comic or not. Obviously free speech has no limit for you. Even if it's just an insult.

Oddly enough, you have failed to differeniate between Islam and Muslim extremists (fundamentalists). You have failed also to differentiate between extremists and fundamentalists. I call that intolerant, or simply, not knowing the difference. Jfyi, not all Muslim fundamentalists are hate mongering evildoers. Your post fails to reconcile that rather simple fact.

Either way, free speech can be had. Go ahead and villify the Catholics Dave. They are easy targets too. They are clearly at fault for the evils of the Western world. Isn't it simple to blame our failings and shortcomings on one group? But as you have failed in your above differentiations, so have you failed in distiquishing between the dangers of unbridled free speech and responsible print. As I've already written, the editor has an absolute duty to decide what gets printed, and what does not. For both socio-political reasons, as well as economic reasons. I find it incredible that you fail to recognize the latter (given your astuteness on economics).

As I previously wrote, you are free to villify Catholicism...but I'll never pay to hear it...it is simply not worth listening to.

 

[Johnd]

AMEN TO THAT!!!

Shuush Neanderthal.

Number 1: Dave needs no help here.

Number 2: Neanderthals were extinquished thousands of years before Catholicism. So how can you even semi-intelligently opine?

 

[stratman]

Shuush Neanderthal.

Number 1: Dave needs no help here.

Number 2: Neanderthals were extinquished thousands of years before Catholicism. So how can you even semi-intelligently opine?

What you throw a rock and then disappear? Come back! I'll teach you a thing or two. I think you mean extinguished not extinquished, ha ha who needs spell-check? Not this caveman!!!

 

[jinjuku]

I think I missed something, how did the government stop the cartoon from being published?

By being grossly negligent in allowing a few mega-conglomerates to buy up all the media outlets and turn them from news agencies into advertising machines.

 

[jinjuku]

Hmmm... it ran in my local newspaper.

Is your local newspaper not part of one of the 3 publishing empires that own most all the news outlets?

If they are an independent it very much goes toward my original point.

 

[stratman]

By being grossly negligent in allowing a few mega-conglomerates to buy up all the media outlets and turn them from news agencies into advertising machines.

That doesn't make it a monopoly, besides the government can't step into a private company and tell them to curb their free speech, umbrage needs to be taken with the newspapers that decided not to print it out of fear of muslim extremists. By the way newspapers in this country are suffering badly due to low revenues, look up what a beating the major papers are taking in Wall Street, if the trend continues I'm not sure that they can survive in large numbers.

 

[jinjuku]

I read the strip (obviously) and found it no more, no less offensive than anything else he has put out there. I don't believe it rose to the level of censorship (not for the correct reasons of censorship anyhow).

I personally refuse to tip-toe around thinned skinned groups of people. Nothing that steers and affects society is inviolate from the spot light. It should never be. If it wants to be out of the spot light, then I group it with everything else that scurries when illuminated and that is of grave concern to me.

For when you have societal influencer's that will not stand up to the light of public scrutiny, and you do nothing about it, you have a problem. The funny thing is that the strip is pointing out the American tendency to adopt another cultures deeply held belief/s and marginalize it to a 'fad'.

 

[stratman]

I read the strip (obviously) and found it no more, no less offensive than anything else he has put out there. I don't believe it rose to the level of censorship (not for the correct reasons of censorship anyhow).

I personally refuse to tip-toe around thinned skinned groups of people. Nothing that steers and affects society is inviolate from the spot light. It should never be. If it wants to be out of the spot light, then I group it with everything else that scurries when illuminated and that is of grave concern to me.

For when you have societal influencer's that will not stand up to the light of public scrutiny, and you do nothing about it, you have a problem. The funny thing is that the strip is pointing out the American tendency to adopt another cultures deeply held belief/s and marginalize it to a 'fad'.

I agree, that practice is one of the cornerstones of the polically correct philosophy. If you marginalize it you take away it's influence, but with the muslims religion it has gone the other way, they ( the politically correct) have become so fearful of the perceived or real repercussions of offending Islam that they rather not find out. When was the last time a jewish or christian person bombed a newspaper for disparaging their beliefs?