Speaker wire for in wall/in ceiling speakers

[annunaki]

They question then comes into play as to how much current is 18 ga. good for at that distance. If running higher wattage applications (above 50 watts rms) 18 ga. becomes insufficient.

50 watts rms at 8 ohms is 2.5 amperes of current. 100 watts rms is 3.54 amperes. 200 watts rms is 5 amperes. At 50 feet 18 gauge is not really the best choice for wire especially if higher power or lower impedance speakers may be run at anytime in the future. 16 ga. is the minimum I run in any home audio application, especially when the wiring will be run in the wall with no option to replace it down the road.

The small cost difference is definitely outweighed by the long term benefits/options.

 

[Midcow2]

good point!

They question then comes into play as to how much current is 18 ga. good for at that distance. If running higher wattage applications (above 50 watts rms) 18 ga. becomes insufficient.

50 watts rms at 8 ohms is 2.5 amperes of current. 100 watts rms is 3.54 amperes. 200 watts rms is 5 amperes. At 50 feet 18 gauge is not really the best choice for wire especially if higher power or lower impedance speakers may be run at anytime in the future. 16 ga. is the minimum I run in any home audio application, especially when the wiring will be run in the wall with no option to replace it down the road.

The small cost difference is definitely outweighed by the long term benefits/options.

Yes 16 gauge is fine for 50 foot at higher power and I agree. It is just that even 18 gauge copper wire at 50ft only adds 4.5 % of load to an 8 ohm nominal impedance. For longer runs of 50 ft yes 16 gauge or maybe even 14 gauge. However, 12 gauge is overkill even at 50ft. and for shorter runs 12 gauge is definitely overkill.

No matter what gauge wire is used, good clean connections are a must. Bare stranded wire can be tinned or it can be secured with either banana plugs or spade connectors. The screw-down are typically the easiest for most to secure tightly. However compression/pressure connectors work just as well if you have the correct tools.

Beside some dielectric and EMF shielding properties, the only thing that distinguishes copper wire dfrom being a compeltely commodity product are the sheathing (durability and asthetics) and the end connectors. And dielectric and shielding for almost all audio applications are greatly overrated. As long as wire is of the correct gauge and has eletrically and physically sound connectors there is no difference is physical properties and therefroe it becomes a commodity item. The cost $$$ difference between differetn wire and calbe vendorsis in the perceived marketing image the company projects. And some companies project a very ,very good image as shown by their pricing!

By the way, m the most profitable items in an HT system are by far the cables. With installation and the service plans being a distant second and third.

P.S. - Anyone remember back when aluminum wiring was used in mobile homes to save money and the stress when aluminum is turned or bent significnatly causes a point of increased resisitance ( equals increased heat dissipation) and actually was the source of some mobile home fires! Aluminum wire is not the same as copper; use only copper wire!

 

[fredk]

I went overkill with 12 guage stranded copper from HD. I would still rather spend my $ on overly thick coper than overpirced 'speaker' wire from other sources.

I remember aluminum wire.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker wire

16 gauge , 14 gauge, 12 gauge are all overkill. But id you have the $$$$ to burn get whatever you want.

When you are paying >$50/hour for the electrician the cost of the wire is irrelevant. Do it right the first time becuase upgrading the wire after drywall in not usually an option. When wiring my distributed audio system I did use some 16/4 belden wire because it was more cost effective than 14/4.

Midcow2,
How many houses have you wired?

 

[Midcow2]

Thank you for the red chicklet

My speaker wire advice was based on copper wire resistance tables and sound engineering principles

Everybody tends to overate what gauge of wire if needed !

If you think my wire advice is bad , then so be it! But you are wrong.

I would venture to say that I am far far more qulified to give advice on wire gauge and size that most forum members.

I think the "red chicklet" is a very very cowardly way to tell me you disagree with my advice.

Let's see what are your qualifications.

Mine are a BS in Electrical Engineer and MBA in business and over 50 years experience with electricity and eletronics.

Do you Mr.. red chicklet giver are basically full of ****

+++++

P.S.- I stick by all the advice i have given!!!

 

[Midcow2]

Many Many stereo systems

When you are paying >$50/hour for the electrician the cost of the wire is irrelevant. Do it right the first time becuase upgrading the wire after drywall in not usually an option. When wiring my distributed audio system I did use some 16/4 belden wire because it was more cost effective than 14/4.

Midcow2,
How many houses have you wired?

Actually the cost of wire is relevant! And why over spec the wiring when you can look at wiring tables and pick the correct gauge?

I guess if you don't care about your job and are lacksidasical then you can over spec the wire and tell the customer it doesn't matter.

I guess I agree with you about one thing and apparently only one thing! Yes it does cost more to install wire after the drywall is set. But you should NOT have to do that if you would do it right the first time and take pride in your work.

 

[unreal.freak]

My speaker wire advice was based on copper wire resistance tables and sound engineering principles

Everybody tends to overate what gauge of wire if needed !

If you think my wire advice is bad , then so be it! But you are wrong.

I would venture to say that I am far far more qulified to give advice on wire gauge and size that most forum members.

I think the "red chicklet" is a very very cowardly way to tell me you disagree with my advice.

Let's see what are your qualifications.

Mine are a BS in Electrical Engineer and MBA in business and over 50 years experience with electricity and eletronics.

Do you Mr.. red chicklet giver are basically full of ****

+++++

P.S.- I stick by all the advice i have given!!!

I dont have an engineering degree, but i do have some Technical Schooling on the subject. I agree with your advice and ideas on wire sizing. I always hold my tongue because in most if not all cases were someone wants to use Overkill sized wire it doesnt hurt anything i just costs more. If people have the cash they can run 500 MCM for all i care, But as you stated Why?
i would like to see if someone who swears by the larger wire guages can actually tell the diffeence between 2 like systems with one minumum required AWG speaker wire, and the other with some 10 awg for speaker wire.

Keep up the good work man!!!

Peace,
Tommy

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don't remember what gauge the Monster was, but I've never used anything smaller than 16ga. And the only thing different was the wire. Same gear, same speakers, same room.

Then, it was human psychology, human bias getting in the way of reality. It is real and demonstrable under controlled listening.

 

[Rickster71]

Aluminum wiring is not the issue, it is the terminations - how the different devices are spliced together.
1970's aluminum wiring is completely different than the current AA-8000 alloy wiring. . There's a night and day difference.
AA-8000 is the only aluminum currently allowed by code for new installs [310.14]

 

[jinjuku]

Yes 16 gauge is fine for 50 foot at higher power and I agree. It is just that even 18 gauge copper wire at 50ft only adds 4.5 % of load to an 8 ohm nominal impedance. For longer runs of 50 ft yes 16 gauge or maybe even 14 gauge. However, 12 gauge is overkill even at 50ft. and for shorter runs 12 gauge is definitely overkill.

If I am running in wall speaker cabling, why mess with anything other than 12 gauge. Not like there is a HUGE cost differential compared to 14/16/18 gauge wire. It will most likely be the cheapest cost out of doing the project.

 

[jinjuku]

Actually the cost of wire is relevant! And why over spec the wiring when you can look at wiring tables and pick the correct gauge?

I guess if you don't care about your job and are lacksidasical then you can over spec the wire and tell the customer it doesn't matter.

I guess I agree with you about one thing and apparently only one thing! Yes it does cost more to install wire after the drywall is set. But you should NOT have to do that if you would do it right the first time and take pride in your work.

Getting a red chicklet is messed up. But again what is the real point. Just buy a big spool of 12AWG and be done with it. I am not going to get a spool of 18 for the center, than another of 16 for the Fronts, and then 14 or 12 for the rears.

I am going to pick the one that gets the job done no matter the circumstances. Also you have some future proofing if you upgrade to a higher current setup.