Speaker Recommendations Wanted

[BobGall]

I am putting together a system and would appreciate any opinions/recommendations.
My room is about 4500 cu. ft., but it also has a large opening into our kitchen area. It's basically a high ceiling Florida house with a lot of open space.
We do mostly classical and pop music and movies. So both detail and big sounds are important.
I just replaced our receiver with a Yamaha RXV2500.
Budget wise I want to spend about $1500-2000. Currently I'm thinking: $500-600 for a sub; $800-1000 for fronts and center; the rest on surrounds. But that's just a rough idea.
Bob

 

[t3031999]

Wow, That's a big room to fill.
You will need to have speakers with high sensitivity to fill up that size room with only the yamaha to power them.
I would look into BIC Acoustech or the Klipsch reference systems.
With a SVS sub, or maybe dual Hsu or Outlaw subs.

 

[patnshan]

Hello,

You need to decide on what you are looking for in the end, but that budget will get you a nice system IMHO.

If you go internet direct:
For $1993, you can get ascend 340's across the front, 170's in the rear, and a Hsu STF-3 sub. From what I've heard, you would be hard pressed to find a better sounding 5.1 system than that for $2000. For classical, I have heard great things about magnepan's. They have NO bass, so you must get a sub. People who have them tend to LOVE them. Also consider axiom, HTD, or AV123 as sources of quality internet direct companies. I am mulling over all these options myself.

If you want to listen in a store first:
Find out what is available in your area to take a listen to. I would look at well known and liked brands such as polk, infinity, boston acoustics, JM lab, Phase tech, Definitive tech, klipsch, Epos, BIC, NHT, JBL (higher end models), paradigm, and others I am sure I missed.

Good luck,

Pat

 

[t3031999]

I have heard really good things about the Ascend Speakers, and was considering mentioning them. They are probably sensitive enough to fill the room.

The magnepans are wonderful for classical music, but to fill a room that size they require far to much power. I know someone with the MG 3.6s in a similar sized room and to get to reference levels they require monoblocks that are around 400 watts into 4 ohms.

The Axioms are also very nice but I think a system required to fill a room that size will put you over budget.

 

[jcPanny]

Axiom M60's are efficient speakers that would work well as fronts with the VP100 or VP150 center and QS8 rears. The M80's would definately be louder, but the 4 ohm load might require an external amp.

For subs, look at 12" models from SVS and HSU. Consider buying one now and adding a second sub later for such a large room.

 

[jaxvon]

The magnepans are wonderful for classical music, but to fill a room that size they require far to much power. I know someone with the MG 3.6s in a similar sized room and to get to reference levels they require monoblocks that are around 400 watts into 4 ohms.

Amen. Magnepans are great speakers, but they're terribly inefficient and get moreso as you move up the line. Unless you're using the small Maggies, you're going to NEED an external amp as they're all 4 Ohm power hogs.

 

[BobGall]

Additional Questions

First, THANKS for all the great advise. That prompted a couple of questions.
I see that most of the recommended fronts are towers. From looking around I see that towers are often slightly upgraded bookshelfs but put on top of a pedestal to get height (I guess). My room has a high built in shelf system in the viewing end. This is where the fronts would go. But the shelf system is about 5ft. high already, I can't really put towers on top of that, mostly because it would look really awful. So I"m thinking about some of the better bookshelfs. I really like the look of the Axiom M22s.
Second, the Axioms have some bass capability, so do I really need a big bad sub? Or can I get away with something smaller that I can get in a good wood veneer finish. The SVS and others are too pricey once I want to get a wood finish. Black just won't do for our room.
Thanks again.
Bob

 

[MacManNM]

For truly outstanding performance I would get the Klipsch RB-75's for the front, RC-7 for the center. The performance of these units in a room that size will astound you. It may cause you to go a little over your budget but it will be well worth every penny. As far as the subs go you can get the klipsch RW-12 in cherry for ~$450, it is a decent little unit.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker efficiency and sub options.

The reason that floorstanders are recommended is that their multiple drivers and high efficency allow them to play to very high SPLs (volume levels) in a large room like yours.

For example, the Axiom M22ti's have an inroom efficiency of 93 dB (@ 1w/1m). The M80 towers have an inroom efficiency of 95 dB. Both types of speakers are very efficient, but the bookshelf speakers will require almost twice as much amplifier power as the towers to produce the same SPL level.

If you only listen to music at moderate levels, then a bookshelf system might be acceptable. Axiom has a great return and upgrade policy, so I recommend trying a pair of the M22ti's and upgrading to towers if necessary.

These bookshelfs are designed to work with a sub for HT and Music. Towers like the M80s go down to the upper 30 Hz range, so they would be fine for music, but better with a sub for HT.

If you want a nice finish on your sub, consider saving for the $1K EP500 sub from Axiom that comes in the same finish options as their speakers.
The rocket subs from AV123 come in real wood veneer and have received some good reviews from audioholics. However, SVS and HSU are considered the most "boom" for the buck on this forum.

 

[3db]

Try PSB

As an owner of PSB products , I can vouch for their sound. Here are a few reviews to back me up;

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/psb_image_t65.htm
http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/psb_t65_c60_s50_subsonic_6i.htm

 

[patnshan]

First, THANKS for all the great advise. That prompted a couple of questions.
I see that most of the recommended fronts are towers. From looking around I see that towers are often slightly upgraded bookshelfs but put on top of a pedestal to get height (I guess). My room has a high built in shelf system in the viewing end. This is where the fronts would go. But the shelf system is about 5ft. high already, I can't really put towers on top of that, mostly because it would look really awful. So I"m thinking about some of the better bookshelfs. I really like the look of the Axiom M22s.
Second, the Axioms have some bass capability, so do I really need a big bad sub? Or can I get away with something smaller that I can get in a good wood veneer finish. The SVS and others are too pricey once I want to get a wood finish. Black just won't do for our room.
Thanks again.
Bob

If you are going to put them in a cabinet, you will likely need to narrow your search to designs that are not rear ported. A built in cabinet will not have the room behind the speaker to do it justice.

PSB, as someone recommended, actually has speakers made for in-cabinet applications.

Pat

 

[MacManNM]

For example, the Axiom M22ti's have an inroom efficiency of 93 dB (@ 1w/1m). The M80 towers have an inroom efficiency of 95 dB. Both types of speakers are very efficient, but the bookshelf speakers will require almost twice as much amplifier power as the towers to produce the same SPL level.

I have to disagree with you on this. The M80's are 91db, that "in room measurement" is not worth anything. Plus the fact that they are 4 ohms turns them into 88db speakers, which is not very good. The same goes for the M22's, they are really 89 which isn't very good either.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker efficiency

I don't know any other speaker manufacturer that publishes the SPL of their speaker in an anti-echo chamber for comparison to the Axiom spec. The in room spec is measured in a manner more similar to other manufacturers.

At any rate, the purpose of the example was to illustrate the difference in efficiency of the bookshelf vs. the floorstanders. The same 2 dB difference applies regaurdless of which set of specs you look at. A good amplifier can
deliver double the power into 4 ohms (vs. 8 ohms), not half as much. Audioholics measured the 2500 at 120 Watts into 2 channels at 4 ohms.

 

[jaxvon]

JC, most manufacturers of any clout (especially those associated with the NRC like Axiom is) publish anechoic measurements.

 

[MacManNM]

That is correct Jax. All measurements that are of value are done in the free field with no room response enhancements. The addition of that 2 db plus the fact that they are 4 ohm speakers brings them down 5 db total, that is almost a factor of 4 when it comes to required power. I am simply pointin out that those speakers aren't that sensitive. Not that it is bad in any way, it just means that more power is required to achieve equivelant SPL's at the seated position.

 

[3db]

I don't know any other speaker manufacturer that publishes the SPL of their speaker in an anti-echo chamber for comparison to the Axiom spec. The in room spec is measured in a manner more similar to other manufacturers.

At any rate, the purpose of the example was to illustrate the difference in efficiency of the bookshelf vs. the floorstanders. The same 2 dB difference applies regaurdless of which set of specs you look at. A good amplifier can
deliver double the power into 4 ohms (vs. 8 ohms), not half as much. Audioholics measured the 2500 at 120 Watts into 2 channels at 4 ohms.

PSB does;

Sensitivity
(1w (2.83V) @ 1m,
IEC-filtered Pink Noise,
C-weighted)
Anechoic Chamber 90 dB
Typical Listening Room 93 dB

 

[corey]

The PSB Image B25 is a front ported speaker, so it would work on your shelf. The Klipsch Reference bookshelves are front ported too, and much more efficient than the PSB's. I listened to some Klipsch RB-35's yesterday & liked them.

 

[Tex-amp]

I don't know any other speaker manufacturer that publishes the SPL of their speaker in an anti-echo chamber for comparison to the Axiom spec. The in room spec is measured in a manner more similar to other manufacturers.

Ascend Acoustics gives both measurements.

 

[BobGall]

Subs?

Thanks again for the feedback.
So on subs particularly, I'm looking at Velodyne, Axiom, and some others. Again finish is important, so I need something that I can get in a maple or cherry. The Velo I can afford is the 10", or the Axiom 350 - a 12". Anybody know how the 10" Velo compares to 12" Axiom or others?
Bob

 

[mulester7]

Thanks again for the feedback.
So on subs particularly, I'm looking at Velodyne, Axiom, and some others. Again finish is important, so I need something that I can get in a maple or cherry. The Velo I can afford is the 10", or the Axiom 350 - a 12". Anybody know how the 10" Velo compares to 12" Axiom or others?
Bob

.....Bob, it can't be stressed enough, ask for opinions, but let your ears decide if possible....nobody is laying out money for your equipment but you, and we all hear differently.....