Speaker Dispersion Types!

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bearjew

Audiophyte
So not to long ago I bought a pair of Mirage Omni OMD-5's for use as side surrounds since I have a narrow listening area and could not place any mono-pole speaker that close without it screaming, "this is the speaker not the music."

I had listened to those Mirage OMD-5s for a few days in stereo and was really impressed before hooking 'em up as side surrounds. Then I realized I don't watch that many movies where I really use side surrounds so I hooked 'em up to zone 2.

I don't get it. I really really am in love with these speakers. I've listened to speakers costing way more and my own mains are better in so many different variables. I'm just in love with that room filling sound. Despite whatever the short comings are this is what I want in my speakers for most of my listening.

If I want to critically listen to music then I will sit in front of my mains and really take it all in, and while I love doing this I don't have all the time in the world and I still miss that spaciousness. I fell in love with music listening to some of the shittiest gear around for years. Maybe I'm not an audiophile, I certainly respect a better speaker, but I think for the majority of listening around my house the omni-directional speaker is a big hit for me.

What other speakers have interesting room filling wide sweet spot dispersion types? I was looking into maybe buying a set of magnepan MMG's for my bedroom, but wanted to know what other speakers are out there and how they compare to the Mirage OMD-5's.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
Other than the Mirage speakers, what other gear do you have?

What other speakers have you listened to?

How big is your listening area and what's the budget?
 
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pureiso

Junior Audioholic
Honestly, I may have just the thing you may be interested in.

Time for the sale of all sales. The deal of all deals!

Danny has some X-Omnis for sale, basically a mini-tower with the midrange located on top of the enclosure. Gives a very spacious sound kind of like an open baffle speaker. The only issue is they do not have the grill or base.

I just recently bought a pair and they definitely would fit the bill. I think they are going for $250 for the pair, new.


As for what you are looking for, you may want to start researching into open baffle design speakers. Many of these tend to have a very large presence and ambience to them that lend very well to music. They also work well for L/R because of how it fills up the entire front end.
 
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sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Personal taste is personal taste and if you love a room filling widely dispersed sound you're not alone. It's popular enough that over the years lot's of companies have come out with their own flavors of bi, quad, or omni-polar speakers. Setting aside electronic means of simulating a large space you have Bose with their "Direct Reflecting" technology in their long running 901 and discontinued 601 series speakers where small full range drivers or giant tweeters were aimed at rear and/or side walls to give a room filling sound. Unfortunately they sacrificed a lot of musical detail, especially high frequency detail to get that dispersed sound cheaply. In my opinion better examples of bipolar technology come from Definitive (and a few others) where rear firing tweeters and mid-woofers create a full sound stage by bouncing sound off the back wall while good quality front firing tweeters and mid-woofers fill in the musical details. Others use a single set of drivers with an open back design. What all of the above have in common is very picky placement. To work as intended they must be "X" distance from the back wall and "Y" distance from side walls and not every room accommodates such placement.

Unfortunately I've never had the chance to listen to properly placed Mirage omnipolar speakers (just poorly placed Omnis) but the concept is interesting. FWIW World Wide Stereo has (or had) one of their tower speakers on sale and you'll find a coupon code in the deals section. I have no idea how they sound but I suspect that placement will be important to balance direct with reflected sound.

Many good monopolar speakers will also produce a wide and very detailed sound stage without the use (and expense) of rear firing drivers but again placement is a factor, just not as big of a factor.
 
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pureiso

Junior Audioholic
sholling is right. Those Omnis need to be out about 3' from rear and side walls to really sound excellent.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
It really all boils down to how much of what you hear are soundwaves that come at your ears in a straight line, directly from the front of the speaker vs. how much of what you hear are soundwaves that reflected off of some surface in your room before they made their way to your eardrums :p

There's truly no "right" or "wrong" with this part of audio reproduction. No "standard" what-so-ever for any listener or speaker manufacturer to aim for. Measuring a speaker in an anechoic chamber completely eliminates the microphone capturing any reflected sound. The only sound being measured is the direct sound in an anechoic chamber. Thus, such measurements really cannot tell you how that speaker is going to sound to your ears in any given room from any given position within that room. You can measure the speaker in the chamber from every conceivable angle. With those measurements, you can see how much sound energy is being cast in any given direction and thus, make some educated guesses as to how much louder the direct sound will be vs. the reflected sound. But it really all boils down to the room.

That said, some speakers produce a dispersion pattern that is practically a lazer beam shooting straight out the front of the speaker. As in, if you measure that speaker in an anechoic chamber, when you have the microphone directly in front of the speaker, you might get, say, linear response at 89dB with the microphone 2 meters away and using 1 Watt of power. But move the microphone just 5 degrees off axis and the response gets way quieter and maybe the response is no longer linear with the high frequencies rolling off, for example. And the further you move off axis, the quieter and less linear the response becomes.

Such a speaker will always deliver considerably more direct sound vs. reflected sound to your ears, PROVIDED that you are sitting directly in front and on axis with the face of the speaker. Thus, you have a teeny tiny "sweet spot" where the direct sound is aimed right at you. But at all other angles, there's much less sound energy being cast out into the room, and thus, far weaker reflections off of any given surface.

So a speaker like that, to a fairly large degree, takes the room "out of the equation". Not entirely, of course, but you are hearing FAR more direct sound than reflected sound, so what you hear is more or less dependent solely on the frequency response of the speaker itself and rather independent of the room in which you place such speakers. But you've gotta be in that one, tiny sweet spot!

On the complete other side, you've got speakers where no matter what angle you measure them from in the anechoic chamber, they're casting out sound that is just as loud, or very nearly just as loud as when you are measuring the speaker straight on axis. With such a speaker, you can very reasonably predict that you're going to have much stronger reflections.

Now one benefit here is that no matter where you are sitting in relation to the speaker, the direct sound that comes in a straight line from the speaker to your ears is going to have very nearly the same frequency response as any other position. So the "sweet spot" is huge! Go ahead and sit pretty much anywhere, the direct sound is going to remain pretty much the same. BUT, you're going to have a lot more sound energy reaching your ears that is not direct. And all of that reflected sound is going to completely change the frequency response that your brain actually receives. Your brain is going to sum together the direct sound and the reflected sound, and there is going to be interference, both constructive (peaks) and destructive (dips) as well as differences in phase - and all of those interactions are going to change from seat to seat!

Now, all of those soundwave interactions are precisely how we get a sense of our bearings using auditory cues to figure out the shape and size of the space in which we're sitting. With no room reflections at all, we tend to feel very uneasy - even nauseated or panicked - because with no sense of our bearings, our instincts tell us that we are exposed and in danger and there is no protection nearby or an obvious route towards escape! But outside of an anechoic chamber, we don't need to worry about that :p

Back to speakers though, what you get - in very rough terms - with a highly directional speaker vs. a speaker that is closer to omni-directional is a speaker that "transports" you into an auditory "space" that is created by the speaker vs. a speaker that brings the instruments and performance "into your room", respectively.

With a highly directional speaker, you're relying on the sound cues included in the recording to "tell you where you are". If the recording was, say, made in a church or an auditorium, and the microphone picked up the reflected sounds of that recording space, with much more direct sound than reflected sound in your listening room, you're going to feel "transported" into that church or auditorium because the spatial cues you're hearing will be the ones in the recording. And those cues are saying you're in that big church with its characteristic echoes and other reflected sounds!

On the other hand, if you're only hearing direct sound and you're listening to a studio recording where the performers were close-mic'd and the microphone only picked up direct sound, now you have virtually no spatial cues at all! Now it sounds as though some disembodied voice is "coming out of nowhere", or perhaps, that the voice seems to be coming from "inside your head", directly between your ears - exactly like headphones, which are a perfect example of a playback system that is almost entirely direct sound with no room reflections at all!

Meanwhile, that same studio recording played back on omni-directional speakers is going to "bring the singer and instruments into your room". It's going to seem as though the performers are right there in front of you - like you've brought them into your room for a private performance! On the flip side though, that church recording is going to sound very diffuse, echoey and weird. You've got your room's own sound cues telling you you're in your room, but you've also got the recording's sound cues telling you you're in a church. Your brain tries to combine and process this conflicting information and the result comes out "fuzzy" :p Now you don't really know where you are based on the sound cues, so it all just seems sort of "mushy" and indistinct.

So is one dispersion pattern "better" than the other? Nope. It all depends on what you're listening to and your room's acoustics! But most people tend to favor something that falls somewhere in the middle: a fairly wide and even dispersion from the front surface of the speaker so that you get a fairly wide "sweet spot" and not a "lazer beam" of sound that makes everything sound like headphones, but a gradually decreasing output as you move further and further off axis so that you are getting considerably more direct sound than reflected sound. That way, the speaker itself is responsible for more of what you hear and it's a little more independent of the room. But the room isn't taken entirely out of the equation either.

But when you hear either extreme, it can be a fun and educational experience. Some folks hear that omni-directional sound - especially with a close-mic'd studio recording - and it just does it for them because they really get that sense that the performers are right there playing in front of them like a private concert! That can be a very compelling experience. On the flip side, maybe you'll hear an extremely directional electrostatic or line array speaker and be "transported" to a different place in a way that no other speaker has done for you before. The effect will only work for one person who is sitting perfectly still, but it too can be a very compelling experience!

There's no "right" or "wrong". And certainly no reason to question what you like! Most "typical" speakers simply fall somewhere in the middle, so that's what we're used to, and they're sort of a "jack of all trades". An omni-directional speaker will enhance certain recordings and detract from others is all. It all depends on the recording and your room's acoustics.

But it sort of makes a good case for having multiple listening systems so that you can experience your recordings in multiple ways! Match the playback system to the type of recording and your own personal taste. We should all be so lucky, eh?

:)
 
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pureiso

Junior Audioholic
Continuing off of FirstReflection's post, I would like to add that an open baffle/omnidirectional designed speaker will have more issues with placement in comparison to the standard box design (even considering ported enclosures). Usually, it needs to placed well out into the room so that the indirect sounds can be distinguished as an echo rather than an apparent smearing of the audio.

So this must generally be taken into account.
 
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bearjew

Audiophyte
yeah....

Well, while I think i'm first of all biased to that reflected room filling sound I think it's also because my middle floor is almost just one big open room and while my box speakers of my main system sound pretty good upstairs in my rectangle bedroom they just can't really fill the big L shaped open design of my condo nor the 9 foot ceilings of the biggest open rectangle. My tastes are maybe eccentric, and I do like listening critically from time to time, but when i'm doing other stuff I just really like the mirage Omni OMD-5's. Also, they are great for entertaining as I feel that everyone is enjoying the same music versus just whoever is on the couch. Though, the main system sounds good in pretty much all of my bedroom, but it's just so much smaller cubic ft. I guess I like the wide sweet spot. I want to be able to break into a dance and move around when a certain favorite tune or mood hits me vs. having to be glued to that seat and 1/2.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Omni speakers arguably put "too much" sound into the room. Everything in moderation, as they say!

I would recommend a dynamic dipole. Large panel dipoles (like those magnepans) will not have the sweet spot you want although they will have the soundstage depth. A dynamic dipole will have a wide sweet spot but also the wicked soundstage.

Nao Note
 
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bearjew

Audiophyte
too much sound?

What do you mean they might put 'too much' sound? I can understand with all the reflections that certain frequencies will probably be reinforced and others diminished, but what do you mean?

I just like that feeling that music is here in my room and not being able to locate the speakers too much. Yes this happens when i'm in the sweet spot and I can't localize my box speakers, and yes they have more clarity, but not as alive. Then I move 3 feet and am disappointed with how the boxes call attention to themselves.

It's not so bad in my medium size bedroom. With the 9 feet ceilings in the living room though and carpeted it just sounds kind of dead to me except on that couch.
 
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pureiso

Junior Audioholic
I am using the X-Omnis as my front L/R speakers and I can say once they got placed correctly I feel I am getting both the critical listening and room filling sound I have recently discovered I love. The room is 11'x8'x20', carpet and am going to be putting up acoustic treatments in the next few days.

I would definitely recommend checking out AV123's old X-Series stuff or GR Research models (DIY but you can find some fully assembled stuff). Danny Richie designed both of these lines and he definitely leans more toward accurate omni designs (open baffles, midranges on top of mini towers, etc.).

Like all things in audio, there is definitely more than one way to recreate the recording in your room. I didn't think I would be a big fan of omni designs but after these X-Omnis I am going to have a hard time going back. Very picky with placement, but the sound is just so filling and the sweet spot is almost the entire room.
 
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pureiso

Junior Audioholic
Omni speakers arguably put "too much" sound into the room. Everything in moderation, as they say!

I would recommend a dynamic dipole. Large panel dipoles (like those magnepans) will not have the sweet spot you want although they will have the soundstage depth. A dynamic dipole will have a wide sweet spot but also the wicked soundstage.

Nao Note
To be honest, it depends on the design. Rear firing woofers/tweeters I would definitely agree with you. But a decent open baffle or top firing midrange, you are hearing more direct sound than reflection initially.

Once again, I will reiterate that bad placement will completely screw up a omni speaker. More so than any box speaker.
 

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