Speaker -db

[Placebo005]

I have a pioneer VSX-515
and theres an option on it where i can set the db level for each speaker.

i currently have the fronts and centers at +7.0 and the surrounds at +3.0

Is there a better guideline or is it just a matter of what sound sbetter?

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker level setup

The best way to set the speaker levels is with an SPL meter like the inexpensive one from radio shack. Playing the receiver test tones to each channel, you adjust the speaker (dB) level until you get the same output from each speaker at the listening position. If you don't have the meter, you can probably adjust by ear within a few dB.

I would recommend leaving the mains at 0dB and adjusting the center and surround channels to match.

While you are at it, also enter the appropriate speaker distances and set all to SMALL and an 80 Hz crossover to start.

 

[avliner]

I would recommend leaving the mains at 0dB and adjusting the center and surround channels to match.

Hi JC,

just out of curiosity, why would you recommend the mains only to stay ay 0dB??

Cheers / Avliner.

 

[annunaki]

Turning them up does not give you any more power. it also does not allow for as much fine tuning capability.

In most receivers I have seen, turning up the mains actually lowers the maximum volume allowable on the master volume control.

So say your receiver will go to +15db at maximum. If you set your mins to +7db, the maximum volume you can now go to is +8. It is not that big of a deal, but it can be slightly confusing.

 

[Placebo005]

The best way to set the speaker levels is with an SPL meter like the inexpensive one from radio shack. Playing the receiver test tones to each channel, you adjust the speaker (dB) level until you get the same output from each speaker at the listening position. If you don't have the meter, you can probably adjust by ear within a few dB.

I would recommend leaving the mains at 0dB and adjusting the center and surround channels to match.

While you are at it, also enter the appropriate speaker distances and set all to SMALL and an 80 Hz crossover to start.

I tried to set my mains to small and selected 'yes' to subwoofer(even tho i dont have one but my speakers have 2 10" subs in em) and it didnt have much bass to it. so i switched it back.

And i dont think i have the option for 80hz - i think the only option i have for x-over is 50, 100,150,200

make sense?

 

[annunaki]

Set your fronts to large if they have that large of driver and you do not have a sub. Set the other speakers to small with an 80hz x-over to start. Set sub to "None".

 

[Pyrrho]

I tried to set my mains to small and selected 'yes' to subwoofer(even tho i dont have one but my speakers have 2 10" subs in em) and it didnt have much bass to it. so i switched it back.

And i dont think i have the option for 80hz - i think the only option i have for x-over is 50, 100,150,200

make sense?

Okay, so set your main speakers to "large", subwoofer to "none", and then, depending on the speakers you have for the other channels, probably you want them set to "small" (unless they also have large woofers in them), and set the crossover frequency just above the - 3 dB lowest frequency that they can do. That is, if your center channel and rear speakers are rated 60-20,000 Hz +/- 3 dB, set the crossover to 100 Hz. If they are rated 40-20,000 Hz +/- 3 dB, set the crossover to 50 Hz; if they are rated 120-20,000 Hz +/- 3 dB, set the crossover to 150 Hz. These, of course, are starting positions, and you may experiment with higher settings, if you wish. However, these will work adequately. The main things to remember are these: You don't want a gap between what your speakers can do and the crossover setting, and you want the setting as low as reasonably possible, because the higher the setting, the more likely you will be able to tell where the subwoofer is by the sound.

So, with a speaker rated at 120-20,000 Hz +/- 3 dB, if you set the crossover to 50 Hz, you would not be getting the proper level of sound between 50 Hz and 120 Hz. That is why you would need to set the crossover to above 120 Hz.

 

[johnyk]

confused?

hey annanaki,are you saying that if it was possible to run your amp at full power,+15 db,and your mains at 0 db boost.and then you were to raise the boost to +7 db,that there would be no difference? that the 7 db gain would have no effect? hopefully im not misunderstanding what your trying to say.

 

[Placebo005]

Ok i set the -db for mains a 0db and the rest acordingly (which dont differ much from the mains)
to get a decent volum level now, i have to set my volum to -50db (-94db being no sound at all)
if i set the -db level for the mains to +7db and the rrest accordingly, then my decent listening level is around -70db.


Also, i do have the option for 80hz for the x-over, my mistake.

 

[annunaki]

What does it matter if you are listening at -50 or -70? It is most likely the same output level anyway.

Yes Pyrrho, that is essentially what I am trying to say. The mains would have a +7db boost over the rest of the speakers, but it will have no effect on the maximum unclipped output. The other speakers would simply play at a lower volume.

What I am trying to say, is that setting any speaker above the 0db point is really, well... pointless. It will not make the system louder than it was designed to play. If a receiver's maximum volume level is +15db, that is the loudest the system will play unclipped (most units do not allow clipping) with the mains set at 0db. Now, if you raise the mains above 0db, most receivers will lower the maximum volume setting to compensate. So if maximum volume was +15 with the mains at 0db, and you set the mains to +7 the maximum volume the receiver will let you go is now +8 on the display. Essentially, you acheive nothing, other than making the mains stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[Placebo005]

thanks all for input

 

[avliner]

What I am trying to say, is that setting any speaker above the 0db point is really, well... pointless.

Interesting point, but again (at least in my case), whenever I use the SPL meter to get the speakers volume on same level, you hardly get all set at 0dB ( some pretty much close to; others instead, at + 3.0 - 4.0dB, some even on the left side (-). I always set all my speakers to small.

I've noted that the master volume gets reduced proportionally, but that seems not to be a big deal, though.

Let me have your opinion on that particular, please.

Cheers / Avliner.

 

[billy p]

So,then if you turn up the dB level on your fronts or even the rears this means you are reaching the max level quicker on the master control ?

 

[avliner]

So,then if you turn up the dB level on your fronts or even the rears this means you are reaching the max level quicker on the master control ?

Yeah, most definitely!
I just wanna know why is pointless to adjust speakers volume higher than
0dB, as previously stated.

Cheers / Avliner.

 

[annunaki]

Interesting point, but again (at least in my case), whenever I use the SPL meter to get the speakers volume on same level, you hardly get all set at 0dB ( some pretty much close to; others instead, at + 3.0 - 4.0dB, some even on the left side (-). I always set all my speakers to small.

I've noted that the master volume gets reduced proportionally, but that seems not to be a big deal, though.

Let me have your opinion on that particular, please.

Cheers / Avliner.

The only time the master volume is usually reduced is when the main levels are set above 0db (the master volume on most receivers is usually at the 0db point or below to acheive this level with pink noise). However, I could be wrong as I have not checked many receivers with the other volumes (center, surround, surround back) set above 0db.

When a system is calibrated at reference level, the mains should play at 75db at the 0db setting. Though depending upon the room one may be turned down or up 1db or so. Usually in most systems I have done, the other speakers end up slightly lower that the mains. Not always though.

Here is an example of what a typical calibrated system may look like:

Left main: 0db, Center: -2db, Right main: -1db, Left Surround: +1db, Right Surround: +2db, Left Surround Back: 0db, Right Surround Back: -1db

I do not think settings in this manner would affect the maximum master volume.

If they did, it is not hurting or taking anything away.

 

[MDS]

There is nothing wrong with setting the channel trims greater than zero. The purpose of the channel trims is to adjust the level of each channel so that they each play at roughly the same level. That is what calibration is all about and if it is necessary that some channels are in the + range and some are in the - range, then so be it. The end result of all channels at the same volume is what is important.

If the channel trims are greater than zero, then Yes the number that reads 'maximum' on the volume display will be lower; HOWEVER, you have not reduced the total range of the volume control. If you really like punishment , search for threads about relative vs absolute volume display, calibration, 'negative decibels' and the like because I've tried many different ways to make it clear. It's not as complicated as you might think.

The numbers that read 'volume' are just a scale. The master volume controls ALL of the inputs from the various channels. If the master volume goes from say 0 to 100 (absolute scale) then there are 100 discrete steps between minimum and maximum. If each channel trim is at zero, then the range of the master will be from 0 to 100 as you would expect. Now, change the fronts to +5 and the maximum for the master will be reduced to 95. Think of it this way: the level of the signal going to the channels set at +5 will be boosted +5dB by the channel trims, so the master only needs 95 steps to reach maximum instead of the 100 it needed when the channel trims were set to zero.