Speaker auditioning

[rupertoooo]

This is a key part of a new purchase but it is much easier said than done.

I am looking to upgrade my B & W CDM7 SE. I am looking only at the Fronts and Center speaker (Axiom Q8 surrounds and SVS Sub) and keeping my budget around 3K. These speakers will be used strictly in a Home Theater setting.

As I mentioned its much easier to say audition because finding dealers can be a hell of a task. However I have found dealers in a 100 mile radius that carry B & W, PSB, Paradigm and Monitor Audio.

I would really love to get some opinions from folks who have purchased the following speakers:

Monitor Audio: Silver RS 8's
Paradigm: Studio 60 v.5, Paradigm Studio 100 v.4
PSB: Imagine
B & W CM9
Canton Chrono 507


Regards,

Craig

 

[Boerd]

This is a key part of a new purchase but it is much easier said than done.

I am looking to upgrade my B & W CDM7 SE. I am looking only at the Fronts and Center speaker (Axiom Q8 surrounds and SVS Sub) and keeping my budget around 3K. These speakers will be used strictly in a Home Theater setting.

As I mentioned its much easier to say audition because finding dealers can be a hell of a task. However I have found dealers in a 100 mile radius that carry B & W, PSB, Paradigm and Monitor Audio.

I would really love to get some opinions from folks who have purchased the following speakers:

Monitor Audio: Silver RS 8's
Paradigm: Studio 60 v.5, Paradigm Studio 100 v.4
PSB: Imagine
B & W CM9
Canton Chrono 507


Regards,

Craig

The order I'd prefer them:

B & W CM9
Monitor Audio: Silver RS 8's
Canton Chrono 507
Paradigm: Studio 60 v.5, Paradigm Studio 100 v.4
PSB: Imagine

I have listened to B&W and Monitor Audio and you can't go wrong with any of these.

 

[Ito]

I can't speak for the newest version of the Monitor's, since there has been some upgrades that have been in there gold series, but I have listened to the old version as well as the CM's. I did not listen to them in the same location, but both sounded great. I might say that I thought that the CM's sounded a little bit better...but with the upgrades that the Monitors have received, I wouldn't be able to say either way. That said they both sound and look awesome

 

[fredk]

You've already got their surrounds, why not consider Axiom M80s for the mains?

 

[griffinconst]

I heard the B&W 7's last year and liked them pretty well. I'm not so sure the Monitors or the Paradigms would be much of an upgrade. I haven't heard the others. Do you guys think I'm wrong about that?

 

[rupertoooo]

I heard the B&W 7's last year and liked them pretty well. I'm not so sure the Monitors or the Paradigms would be much of an upgrade. I haven't heard the others. Do you guys think I'm wrong about that?

These are the CDM 7 SE's not the CM 7's. I have had these speakers since 1998.

 

[khaliss]

OP, are you also considering other brands? I would highly recommend for you to audition Martin Logan Preface Speakers over at a Magnolia (BestBuy) showroom. I just got 3 of them recently at a great price, only $499 each (regularly $750) and 0% APR for 36 months. I auditioned all speakers (under $800 each) there and these sounded the most natural, accurate, & very detailed.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

OP, are you also considering other brands? I would highly recommend for you to audition Martin Logan Preface Speakers over at a Magnolia (BestBuy) showroom. I just got 3 of them recently at a great price, only $499 each (regularly $750) and 0% APR for 36 months. I auditioned all speakers (under $800 each) there and these sounded the most natural, accurate, & very detailed.

My 2c: Martin Logans are great speakers with only one huge flaw - offset response is very, very lousy

 

[khaliss]

^ Can you expand more on this? By the way, the Preface speakers I have are not the usual MartinLogan Electrostatics, these use ATF drivers. I don't know, I auditioned about 8 different speakers extensively (switched back and forth), and my ears kept telling me these were the best sounding. Have you actually tried out the Preface speakers?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

^ Can you expand more on this? By the way, the Preface speakers I have are not the usual MartinLogan Electrostatics, these use ATF drivers. I don't know, I auditioned about 8 different speakers extensively (switched back and forth), and my ears kept telling me these were the best sounding. Have you actually tried out the Preface speakers?

Offset response - means then you are walking around the room, not sitting directly in the sweet spot.

Granted being in the right place, martin logans do sound great, and they have been attempting to improve this limitation by adding omni-directional woofer, but its not the same

I have not listened to Preface, but I auditioned the Ascent sometime ago.

Granted Preface have more of regular - "old school" drivers,but its still have the electrostatic panel, which like I said is very directional.

Edit:

"The ATF drivers are designed and built by BGcorp (Bohlender Graebner). These planar drivers are superior to electrostatic panels in every way. Electrostatics have extremely narrow dispersion and suffer from intermodulation distortion due to all of the segments in the panel. Ever since their Mosiac/ Fresco/ Montage speakers, ML realized they can make a cheaper, lower distortion product that works in more rooms."

I might stand corrected on this one, but I still think even ATF drivers cant beat forces of physics and provide omni-directional response

 

[khaliss]

Just picked this up from someone who posted some knowledgeable info about the ATF drivers:

"The ATF drivers are designed and built by BGcorp (Bohlender Graebner). These planar drivers are superior to electrostatic panels in every way. Electrostatics have extremely narrow dispersion and suffer from intermodulation distortion due to all of the segments in the panel. Ever since their Mosiac/ Fresco/ Montage speakers, ML realized they can make a cheaper, lower distortion product that works in more rooms."

Here is more about MartinLogan's ATF technology:
http://www.martinlogan.com/learn/advanced-thin-film.php

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

You know, I just found this piece of "gold" on ML FAQ:

Can you suggest a list of speaker cables that will be ideal for MartinLogan speakers?

Many people are surprised to hear that speaker cables and component interconnects can have a significant impact on the quality of sound. Just as with the amplifier questions above, there are many types and designs of cables to choose from and we haven't had the opportunity to extensively test them all. Therefore the best approach is to speak with your MartinLogan specialty audio retailer. They can recommend a variety of cable and interconnect options and work with you to find the best solution.

In fact, the cables should be matched to your components and speakers to assure that any additional sound signature or coloration is minimized or eliminated. Take the time to audition different cables and, as always... trust your ears.

 

[khaliss]

LOL, I always go back to this "speaker cable FAQ" whenever I start questioning myself and blaming my cheapo cables:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

[avaserfi]

Offset response - means then you are walking around the room, not sitting directly in the sweet spot.

I believe the term you are looking for is off-axis or polar response, at least these are the more commonly used term.

I might stand corrected on this one, but I still think even ATF drivers cant beat forces of physics and provide omni-directional response

Very few speakers produce an omni-directional response. It requires very specific driver and cabinet design and room design to provide a true omni experience.

Of note, I have not seen any measurements of the BG tweeter used in the Preface, but based on design, the company who makes it and how it looks I suspect it is at minimum similar to a tweeter I have seen measured the BG Neo3. This tweeter is a superb planar tweeter far more capable than most dome tweeters in terms of dispersion characteristics, linearity and distortion. The biggest draw back on the ML speaker I see, regarding dispersion, is the waveguide used to limit the BG tweeter's dispersion.

My 2c: Martin Logans are great speakers with only one huge flaw - offset response is very, very lousy

The traditional electrostatic speakers offered by ML are superb aside from their poor off-axis response - a common trait of most commercial speakers. Despite this serious short coming, they perform admirably with minimal resonance, another large problem with a majority of commerical speakers. If given the choice between poor polar response and a resonant speaker I would take the poor polar response hands down - as would most from the published perceptual studies I have read.

 

[khaliss]

^ Very informative post there good sir... for me, the best judge to a speaker's sound quality is my trusty, good ol' ears As much as I like to read multiple reviews, etc, the final judgement comes from a real audition pitting all speakers in question in one room, using one receiver, and one source.

 

[Quickley17]

One thing I'd say about the CM9 is that if you are using the speakers mainly for HT and have a sub, you could go with the CM7 and not really miss anything. I feel that way about the studio 100 vs 60 as well.

 

[jostenmeat]

Just picked this up from someone who posted some knowledgeable info about the ATF drivers:

"The ATF drivers are designed and built by BGcorp (Bohlender Graebner). These planar drivers are superior to electrostatic panels in every way. Electrostatics have extremely narrow dispersion and suffer from intermodulation distortion due to all of the segments in the panel. Ever since their Mosiac/ Fresco/ Montage speakers, ML realized they can make a cheaper, lower distortion product that works in more rooms."

Please link the source of this quote. Thank you. BTW, he failed to correctly spell Graebener, Mosaic, and incorrectly uses the term of electrostatics.

That's interesting that some people can hear IMD with these panels. They're the clearest thing I've ever heard. Then again, some people try to reduce phase shifts that come with passive xovers (99% of us here), by going with 1st order and then sloping the baffle backwards by 15 degrees (Thiel).

I've had ATF, electrostatic speakers, and a whole host of monopolar speakers at my place. There is no question to which one I think has the lowest distortion.

 

[jostenmeat]

This is a key part of a new purchase but it is much easier said than done.

I am looking to upgrade my B & W CDM7 SE. I am looking only at the Fronts and Center speaker (Axiom Q8 surrounds and SVS Sub) and keeping my budget around 3K. These speakers will be used strictly in a Home Theater setting.

As I mentioned its much easier to say audition because finding dealers can be a hell of a task. However I have found dealers in a 100 mile radius that carry B & W, PSB, Paradigm and Monitor Audio.

I would really love to get some opinions from folks who have purchased the following speakers:

Monitor Audio: Silver RS 8's
Paradigm: Studio 60 v.5, Paradigm Studio 100 v.4
PSB: Imagine
B & W CM9
Canton Chrono 507


Regards,

Craig

I have never heard a single Paradigm, nor Canton. If these brands were the only candidates, with 3k in hand, without benefit of further auditions, I would go with B&W 804s towers as used or demo. I still want to hear the PSB Synchrony. PSB Platinums I have heard, and once in a while they sell at your budget on the classifieds.

 

[lsiberian]

If given the choice between poor polar response and a resonant speaker I would take the poor polar response hands down - as would most from the published perceptual studies I have read.

Agreed. Usually response gets poor do to room issues in the wrong spots anyway.

 

[khaliss]

Please link the source of this quote. Thank you. BTW, he failed to correctly spell Graebener, Mosaic, and incorrectly uses the term of electrostatics.

That's interesting that some people can hear IMD with these panels. They're the clearest thing I've ever heard. Then again, some people try to reduce phase shifts that come with passive xovers (99% of us here), by going with 1st order and then sloping the baffle backwards by 15 degrees (Thiel).

I've had ATF, electrostatic speakers, and a whole host of monopolar speakers at my place. There is no question to which one I think has the lowest distortion.

I had my doubts when he said that the ATFs are superior to electrostatics in every way. Can't remember where I found that post (another website), but I did compare the Martin Logan Source vs. Preface at the Magnolia showroom. Both sounded great to me, but to my ears, the Preface sounded slightly more natural. I doubt the Source speakers were broken-in yet though, since that's the first I saw them setup in the showroom (I've been watching the Preface for close to a year, just waiting for a good deal on them).