Speaker audition

[psbfan9]

I went to my local 'high end' audio store Saturday. When you walk in you're greeted by two B&W 802D's a Samsung 55" plasma and 3 McIntosh components. I'm checking these things out and the salesman says "You can have this system $35,000.00" I look up, smile and say "Wow". "But, what's causing that hiss through the tweeter?". He said there's no hiss. It's the fan on the amp. You guys know from reading my posts that I'm not the very knowledgeable about this stuff, but there was a hiss, a very audible hiss coming through the tweeter. They were using balanced connectors. So I asked about the advantages/disadvantages of balanced inputs. He said there was no difference.

I ended up listening to a pair of Paradigm S8's. I thought they sounded pretty good. They were being run through some Mark Levinson amps, with a Mark Knopfler cd being played. The S8's were nice, but kind of boring.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I went to my local 'high end' audio store Saturday. When you walk in you're greeted by two B&W 802D's a Samsung 55" plasma and 3 McIntosh components. I'm checking these things out and the salesman says "You can have this system $35,000.00" I look up, smile and say "Wow". "But, what's causing that hiss through the tweeter?". He said there's no hiss. It's the fan on the amp. You guys know from reading my posts that I'm not the very knowledgeable about this stuff, but there was a hiss, a very audible hiss coming through the tweeter. They were using balanced connectors. So I asked about the advantages/disadvantages of balanced inputs. He said there was no difference.

I ended up listening to a pair of Paradigm S8's. I thought they sounded pretty good. They were being run through some Mark Levinson amps, with a Mark Knopfler cd being played. The S8's were nice, but kind of boring.

So did you listen to the 802D?

I also thought Paradigm (and B&W 802D/800D) sounded boring, but we're all different (I'm required to qualify that ).

The hiss must be coming from the amp/preamp.

 

[psbfan9]

So did you listen to the 802D?

I also thought Paradigm (and B&W 802D/800D) sounded boring, but we're all different (I'm required to qualify that ).

The hiss must be coming from the amp/preamp.

Just for a couple of minutes. He shut them down when I mentioned the hiss.

The S8's also have a platinum colored, plastic?, shroud/cover thing at the bottom that I found cheap looking and distracting from an otherwise beautiful piece of furniture.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just for a couple of minutes. He shut them down when I mentioned the hiss.

The S8's also have a platinum colored, plastic?, shroud/cover thing at the bottom that I found cheap looking and distracting from an otherwise beautiful piece of furniture.

So you were not particularly impressed with the SQ of either B&W 802D or Paradigm S8 in the brief period?

I'm sure the aesthetic on the 802D's cabinet was more impressive than the S8.

Eye of the beholder.

 

[Nuance AH]

So did you listen to the 802D?

I also thought Paradigm (and B&W 802D/800D) sounded boring, but we're all different (I'm required to qualify that ).

I feel the same way.

ADTG, what do you like so much about the B&W 802D cabinets? Is it just the looks, or the cabinet construction? Looks are highly subjective, of course.

They are "unique" looking, I'll give you that. Although, so are these LOL:

Okay, I'm just going to say it: they are both pretty ugly. With that said, at least the SoundScapes sound good.

psbfan9,

Keep on auditioning buddy. You'll find something you like eventually. I highly recommend Revel, Dynaudio, Acoustic Zen, Evolution Acoustics and Kef for B&M choices. If you're interested in Internet Direct, check out Salk Sound and Ascend Acoustics.

 

[zieglj01]

I like the picture without the yellow color.

psbfan9,
There are good speakers on both sides, Retail and ID.
Have fun and enjoy the adventure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADTG, what do you like so much about the B&W 802D cabinets? Is it just the looks, or the cabinet construction? Looks are highly subjective, of course.

Okay, I'm just going to say it: they are both pretty ugly. With that said, at least the SoundScapes sound good.

I think 800D/802D are best looking cabinets ever.

I think KEF 207/2 are second best looking.

I think SS10/12 are ugly looking. To me, it was an attempt to copy the B&W & KEF, but just didn't quite pull it off. Tried to make rounder, but still looked oddly squarish. Like a "poor man's" version of the 800D's cabinet, except poor people can't afford them.

 

[Nuance AH]

I think 800D/802D are best looking cabinets ever.

I think KEF 207/2 are second best looking.

I think SS10/12 are ugly looking. To me, it was an attempt to copy the B&W & KEF, but just didn't quite pull it off. Tried to make rounder, but still looked oddly squarish. Like a "poor man's" version of the 800D's cabinet, except poor people can't afford them.

LOL, and I think they are all equally ugly. And just so you know, Jim explained why the cabinet shape is what it is. Go read it, as you might learn something. In short, it's to simply achieve the best possible sound quality. The separate midrange enclosure, the minimal baffle tweeter, and the giant bass cabinet with dual passives. Everything is very well braced and inert and focuses on the least cabinet resonance and diffraction as possible. B&W and Kef were onto something when they designed their speakers, even if they are hideous to look at. In the end it all comes down to sound quality. The SoundScapes were not a "copy;" they were simply designed to achieve the best sound possible. Why would anyone want to copy a design based on atrocious looks alone? Do some research before making such accusations. I thought you were better than that.

Skip to the part where it says "the cabinet design." B&W and Kef aren't the only ones that know what they're doing. Someone's bias is shining brightly (yours). And if you plan to say the same back to me, I'll counter with "at least I've heard them all on the same day."
SoundScape 12

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do some research before making such accusations. I thought you were better than that. Someone's bias is shining brightly (yours). And if you plan to say the same back to me, I'll counter with "at least I've heard them all on the same day."

You seem quite defensive every time anyone has a negative OPINION of Salk.

I was merely stating my opinion like I always do.

As far as comparing speakers, it doesn't hold a lot of water if they were not side by side in the same room with the same electronics within MINUTES of each other.

And I'll play along and say that at least some speakers have more than a single on-axis FR.

Did you see all those graphs on the Ascend Sierra towers. Quite impressive.

 

[Nuance AH]

You seem quite defensive every time anyone has a negative OPINION of Salk.

I was merely stating my opinion like I always do.

In this instance, yes, I am defensive. I'd be defensive of any speaker that someone makes false accusations towards. Your "opinion" is wrong and based on no facts, not to mention you've never heard the speakers.

Hearing the speakers all on the same day is better than not having heard them at all (the latter category is the one you fall into). It's likely less that 1% of the people in this hobby will be able to hear all these flagship speakers in their own home on the same day, "minutes" apart. Let's be realistic here. But if they could, they'd probably notice the differences between all of them and be able to settle with one.

Where are Revel's full suite of measurements (they offer some, but not much more than Salk)? How about Kef? Not everyone has a their own anechoic chamber at hand. They pay magazines to advertise for them, and then review and measure them. At least Salk provides the on-axis and impedance, which is much more than most manufacturers offer. Also, Dennis Murphy designs the speakers along with Jim, and you've gotta figure he measures Salk speakers just as thoroughly as he does his own Philharmonic line, so your argument is moot. Whether or not Jim chooses to post them is his decision.

Well, this thread is way off track. Time to continue this conversation elsewhere. My apologies, psbfan, and happy hunting sir. ADTG, if you'd like to continue this "battle of whits," PM me or start a new thread.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your "opinion" is wrong and based on no facts, not to mention you've never heard the speakers.

Well, this thread is way off track. Time to continue this conversation elsewhere. My apologies, psbfan, and happy hunting sir. ADTG, if you'd like to continue this "battle of whits," PM me or start a new thread.

That's......why.......they call it "opinion" and not "facts".

And I never said the SS do not sound great; I've always said they probably sound as good as the Salon2. I said they look ugly and it somehow just puts this notion & picture in my mind that the SS tried to look like the 802D, but.........just........not.

And PM's are no fun. Derailing threads are much more fun.

 

[cpp]

Well to be honest since your talking visual appearance, I think the Salk Soundscape 12 looks like a train engine coming at you down the track, and I have already mentioned to Dennis my wife felt the Phil's looked like little churches. And to me, the B&W 802D look like little Martian one eyed robots.

People get so protective once they have spent a considerable hunk of change on something. I guess you out grow it, or not cause people still buy red speaker cabinets and some collect Studebakers, and even some hold on to old 69 Camaro's and still play vinyl. Looks don't make the sound, it's all in the head.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Looks don't make the sound, it's all in the head.

Everything is in our head. Sight, sound, touch, taste, smell all go through our brains. Our emotions can also affect how our brains interpret the sound.

When we are happy, speakers tend to sound happier.

And why should we cut out any senses? If the visuals enhance our enjoyment, more power.

 

[psbfan9]

So you were not particularly impressed with the SQ of either B&W 802D or Paradigm S8 in the brief period?

I'm sure the aesthetic on the 802D's cabinet was more impressive than the S8.

Eye of the beholder.

No. But that's just me. My opinion, right or wrong.
I do like the looks of the B&W. I like the curves. To me, it looks like a very nice piece of functional furniture.

I feel the same way.


psbfan9,

Keep on auditioning buddy. You'll find something you like eventually. I highly recommend Revel, Dynaudio, Acoustic Zen, Evolution Acoustics and Kef for B&M choices. If you're interested in Internet Direct, check out Salk Sound and Ascend Acoustics.

I'm not actively looking for speakers, I just needed a day to blow off some steam.

I like the picture without the yellow color.

psbfan9,
There are good speakers on both sides, Retail and ID.
Have fun and enjoy the adventure.

Thanks! I will.

Well to be honest since your talking visual appearance, I think the Salk Soundscape 12 looks like a train engine coming at you down the track, and I have already mentioned to Dennis my wife felt the Phil's looked like little churches. And to me, the B&W 802D look like little Martian one eyed robots.

People get so protective once they have spent a considerable hunk of change on something. I guess you out grow it, or not cause people still buy red speaker cabinets and some collect Studebakers, and even some hold on to old 69 Camaro's and still play vinyl. Looks don't make the sound, it's all in the head.

I agree.

I'm not offended when people say they don't like equipment I own. It's all too subjective. I like pepper, my wife likes salt, but we get along fine...

 

[Nuance AH]

And to me, the B&W 802D look like little Martian one eyed robots.

R2D2!

I'm not actively looking for speakers, I just needed a day to blow off some steam.

Oh, I see. Cool.

I'm not offended when people say they don't like equipment I own. It's all too subjective. I like pepper, my wife likes salt, but we get along fine...

I like both. Seriously, though, thanks for sharing your experience with us. I always enjoy reading them.

 

[psbfan9]

I went back tonight and listened to the B&W 802D's. The salesman seemed to be in a better mood and was more willing to answer questions.

I wish I were more eloquent and could give a better review, but anyway, here it is...

He still had no answer for the balanced vs. unbalanced question. The top of the McIntosh amp said balanced 95db, unbalanced 93db. I don't know what that means, but they were using balanced connectors. I think he said they were Canare cables.
For listening they had a McIntosh dvd player and were playing Chris Botti Live In Boston. We chose the selection Cinema Paradiso with Yo Yo Ma. I sat about ten feet away and the speakers were toed in about 40 degrees.
I have to say, despite the hiss, I was impressed with these speakers.They seemed full and had a wide sound stage as I moved around the room.

Now the bad. When the song was over I asked if it would take $20,000.00 in electronics to get them to sound that good...The answer was yes.

I'm not at that point in life where I can drop $30-35,000.00 on a sound system. No matter how good.
These really are fine speakers and if you have the coin to spend on the electronics it takes to get them to sound good, I say try them.

In the mean time I'll keep saving for Salks or Philharmonics.

 

[walter duque]

You guys know I am a little out there anyway. I just hooked up some cheap Jensen outdoor speakers and I am driving them with a Perraux 6000B 500x2 watts and a 1000 watt sub and it sounds great. Speakers must be at least $35.oo each. I am shocked. Just a joke... I am just testing the amp to make sure it's working before I might put it into my main system. It's been running for a few hours so I should be fine.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When the song was over I asked if it would take $20,000.00 in electronics to get them to sound that good...The answer was yes.

I'd be shocked if he hadn't say that.

And when you go listen to the Salon2 and you ask the salesman if he recommends $30K Mark Levinson electronics, he will say Yes.

They are all like that.

 

[psbfan9]

You guys know I am a little out there anyway. I just hooked up some cheap Jensen outdoor speakers and I am driving them with a Perraux 6000B 500x2 watts and a 1000 watt sub and it sounds great. Speakers must be at least $35.oo each. I am shocked. Just a joke... I am just testing the amp to make sure it's working before I might put it into my main system. It's been running for a few hours so I should be fine.

That amp is huge!! The amp Walter, the AMP is huge... I mentioned saving for Salks or Philharmonics. I forgot about John's speakers. I need to email him again.

I'd be shocked if he hadn't say that.

And when you go listen to the Salon2 and you ask the salesman if he recommends $30K Mark Levinson electronics, he will say Yes.

They are all like that.

So he was up selling? I guess I'm a little naive, I thought he was being honest. I can't imagine getting the same sound I heard in the store at my house from my Onkyo AVR though. So there may be some truth to what he's saying.

 

[zieglj01]

You guys know I am a little out there anyway. I just hooked up some cheap Jensen outdoor speakers and I am driving them with a Perraux 6000B 500x2 watts and a 1000 watt sub and it sounds great. Speakers must be at least $35.oo each. I am shocked. Just a joke... I am just testing the amp to make sure it's working before I might put it into my main system. It's been running for a few hours so I should be fine.

Nothing like having some fun - that amp will look cool in
your main system.