Sound Card Direct to Speakers (why not?)

[Hemlock]

I have an umimpressive kenwood and Decent Infinity speakers.

I have been looking for a decent Tuner/Amp with a 24 bit DAC when it hit me

Why not get a good 24 bit Sound card for ~$100 (no recording required) and run the speakers Directly off of that?

Actually the speakers go to a Monster Cable selector.

I listen to FLAC via XBMC

I have Sat. Radio too, so I made need some input for that too but not if it doubles the cost of the card (96k vs 192k?)

What am I missing?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I have an umimpressive kenwood and Decent Infinity speakers.

I have been looking for a decent Tuner/Amp with a 24 bit DAC when it hit me

Why not get a good 24 bit Sound card for ~$100 (no recording required) and run the speakers Directly off of that?

Actually the speakers go to a Monster Cable selector.

I listen to FLAC via XBMC

I have Sat. Radio too, so I made need some input for that too but not if it doubles the cost of the card (96k vs 192k?)

What am I missing?

First of all you're missing amplifier (sound card don't have amplifier, other than sometimes headphones amp) and I'm got strong feeling that neither of your

unimpressive kenwood and Decent Infinity speakers

are active.

Second, I assume again what now you're playing music from your desktop computer and using on-board audio. Yes, these are not very impressive, but what 24bit capable sound card has to do with anything?

If if set on changing sound card - Asus Xonar XS costs $50 and includes pretty decent dac.
Save the rest to upgrade your speakers.

 

[Hemlock]

Alright then lets talk Turkey.

Kenwood AVR-300
10" powered Sub
Infinity 105's

I had all this in the post but then I walked away from the Computer and it disappeared


-So at what point am I going to Catch up with 16bit Sound pumped out of a 1/8 jack?

What range are we talking for a Pair of Bookshelfs and a Sub?.

Here's the reason I ask:
I am dumping Pay TV service at $160/mo to go all online.
I light of that the machine running my Stereo is up for upgrade (I'm Married).
If the speakers are the issue I will plan the Hardware in anticipation of the new speakers but I don't have any idea what the cost spectrum is like

I should say that I have a decent ear and can tell an MP3 from a FLAC pretty well, but obviously I'mm missing a lot on the Good end

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Alright then lets talk Turkey.

Kenwood AVR-300
10" powered Sub
Infinity 105's

I had all this in the post but then I walked away from the Computer and it disappeared


-So at what point am I going to Catch up with 16bit Sound pumped out of a 1/8 jack?

What range are we talking for a Pair of Bookshelfs and a Sub?.

Here's the reason I ask:
I am dumping Pay TV service at $160/mo to go all online.
I light of that the machine running my Stereo is up for upgrade (I'm Married).
If the speakers are the issue I will plan the Hardware in anticipation of the new speakers but I don't have any idea what the cost spectrum is like

I should say that I have a decent ear and can tell an MP3 from a FLAC pretty well, but obviously I'mm missing a lot on the Good end

"to go all online" - I assume netflix is involved somewhere in the mix of your cord-cutting intentions??
If so, perhaps your best route to proceed is to stand-alone streaming media client to simply the process for your and most importantly for your wife...
One of most favorite ones is Boxee Box, but unfortunately it's still missing Netlfix and Vudu support, but Netflix CEO promised that fixed by end of this month - http://blog.boxee.tv/2010/12/31/vudu-arriving-next-week-netflix-by-end-of-january/
Alternatively you could get WDTV Live or other device to play your shows and music.

Regarding speakers/sub combos - prices go from $200 to $20000000000000000000

Besides budget, I assume you also will have WAF considerations.

Without knowing your budget and room size it'll be very hard to give good advice, but I think you owe to yourself to try Ascend Acoustics

 

[psbfan9]

I have an umimpressive kenwood and Decent Infinity speakers.

I have been looking for a decent Tuner/Amp with a 24 bit DAC when it hit me

Why not get a good 24 bit Sound card for ~$100 (no recording required) and run the speakers Directly off of that?

Actually the speakers go to a Monster Cable selector.

I listen to FLAC via XBMC

I have Sat. Radio too, so I made need some input for that too but not if it doubles the cost of the card (96k vs 192k?)

What am I missing?

I have an Onkyo TX SR 608 receiver with two PSB Alpha B1's, a PSB Alpha C1 center, and two PSB mites for surrounds. The Onkyo has an input dedicated as a 'pc' input. I have what is basically an RCA cord with two male ends one end and an adapter on the other that is plugged into the sound card on the back of my pc. I ran the cord under the the floor where the line for my cable/internet comes in, so there was no drilling. I ran the line above the drop ceiling in the basement and up through the hole where the cable line connects to the tv. I got the 25' foot RCA cord for about $15.00 at my local computer shop. I don't think you can find this cord at BB or Walmart. I would go some where that deals exclusively with computers.

The sound is decent. Of course the higher the bit rate, the better the sound in most cases. I use an audio only media player called xmplay.

My Blu Ray player is wifi enabled and also most newer devices are DLNA certified for a wireless set up. I listen to internet radio and cd's through the xmplay media player and I use the Blu ray player for Slacker, Pandora and so on.

 

[krzywica]

I just picked this up a few weeks ago from my buddy. Solved some noise issues over the onboard audio that I was having and it sounds very nice!

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Control-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000J0IIEQ

I'm running a 2.1 system as you are wishing to do.

I was powering it with a Sherwood 2 channel receiver but that got moved to the bedroom and I got a Dayton T Amp and am loving it.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-383

I'm running Aperion 4B's and a Polk PSW250 sub.

 

[Hemlock]

alright!

great suggestions, I have already built the equiv of a Boxee/Roku/you name it.

That's the part I'm good at (Currently running XBMC on 4 Machines, 2 Win7x64, a Win7x32 and a Mythbuntu on 64.

As for the room it is a 30x30 living room with a 22' ceiling that empties into a 24x50 Kitchen/Dining room area with a 9' ceiling.

I think my system does a decent job, I wonder if I need to go listen to higher end stuff, if I find a real Home Theatre store do you suppose they'd let me bring in some FLACs?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I just picked this up a few weeks ago from my buddy. Solved some noise issues over the onboard audio that I was having and it sounds very nice!

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Control-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000J0IIEQ

I'm running a 2.1 system as you are wishing to do.

I was powering it with a Sherwood 2 channel receiver but that got moved to the bedroom and I got a Dayton T Amp and am loving it.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-383

I'm running Aperion 4B's and a Polk PSW250 sub.

I didn't realized it's only $29 w/free ship
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=pd_cp_MI_0_map
Great deal

 

[psbfan9]

You should also check the HRT music streamer line of products.


http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/

 

[krzywica]

I didn't realized it's only $29 w/free ship
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=pd_cp_MI_0_map
Great deal

Yes an excellent deal. You get 16bit audio out of the box without a driver and with the driver 32 bit.

 

[krzywica]

You should also check the HRT music streamer line of products.


http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/

If I have to dig through 5 pages of dealer locators and look ups just to get a price, chances are its going to be drastically overpriced, especially for a DAC where the snake oil smoke and mirrors game seems to come on very strong.

 

[Hemlock]

Yes an excellent deal. You get 16bit audio out of the box without a driver and with the driver 32 bit.

USB? that scares me. There is such a HUGE quality swing with USB Controllers I dunno about that one.

And the Power over USB... that is sketchy as well.

that Dayton Amp looks VERY tasty though

I would be more inclined to go with an Internal Card just for reliability.

The other question is Are my Infinity Primus 150's capable of letting me hear 16 bit sound well if they are driven by that Dayton Amp?
Are they good enough for 24 bit/ or am I wasting Money

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

USB? that scares me. There is such a HUGE quality swing with USB Controllers I dunno about that one.

And the Power over USB... that is sketchy as well.

that Dayton Amp looks VERY tasty though

I would be more inclined to go with an Internal Card just for reliability.

The other question is Are my Infinity Primus 150's capable of letting me hear 16 bit sound well if they are driven by that Dayton Amp?
Are they good enough for 24 bit/ or am I wasting Money

Hemlock, I did Napster eMule torrents IRC/Bin and Usenet. Trust me I know thing or two about digital audio.
Vast majority of flac files are 16bit files since they came ripped from CD.
24 bit capable sound card would do jack s&h1t for you unless your source material is 24bit - which is rare and between.

The usb dac krzywica mentioned is an amazing deal regardless of "bits" or "Khz" it's capable of; It's also made by company which specializes in Professional Audio. In fact this dac is made for musicians interested in home recording on budget to begin with.

Why do you consider usb dac not reliable? Do you have young kids or animals running around, pulling cables???

Dayton AMP is again - trully barebones, but it's also exceptional value.

The other question is Are my Infinity Primus 150's capable of letting me hear 16 bit sound well if they are driven by that Dayton Amp?

I don't really understand the question, but if you already have any sort of decent amp - To maximize your SQ for best bang for a buck you should get the mentioned above dac and replace the speakers to Behringer 2030p for example.
Imo Infinity P150 are decent for surround duty, but as-far-as use them as mains??
http://www.stereophile.com/content/infinity-primus-150-loudspeaker-measurements

Ok, but not great

 

[Hemlock]

Yikes!! I trust you for SURE!!!!
I Didn't mean to give you (or anyone) the impression that I was questioning anyones knowledge, that's why I'm here.

now I get the 16 bit thing, thanks for the clarification, It looks like a portion my source files are in fact 24bit.

Grateful Dead - October 10, 1982
Frost Amphitheatre - Palo Alto, CA
Stanford University

Recording Info:
SBD -> Cassette Master (TDK MA-R90/Dolby B) -> Cassette (JVC KD-V6/XLII-S90/Dolby C)

Transfer Info:
Cassette (Nakamichi DR-1/Dolby C) -> Sound Devices 744T (24bit/48k) ->
Adobe Audition v3.0 -> Samplitude Professional v11.1 -> FLAC/24
(1 DVD FLAC)

All Transfers and Mastering By Charlie Miller
...
November 8, 2010


Now that said, if it still not much of an improvement or if my speakers won't relay it to me anyway then I would not bother with 24bit.



My concern with USB has to do with the amount of extra overhead involved as well as the transfer rate.
Also USB Power has a habit of being less stable than it's PCI counterpart.

That said, I will snag that USB DAC as it looks much better than the I am running now, and I can address the PCI card if needed later.

thanks again, and please understand that my questioning is based on wanting to understand, not to question you experts here!!

thanks

EDIT I: the question about the Infinity's handling 16 bit vs 24 was based on my misunderstanding of the source bit issue.
i.e. would there be any difference between;
24bit Source 24bit card my infinty 150's
24bit Source 16bit card my infinty 150's

EDIT II:
I wish I'd known about the speakers when I dropped $200 on the Infinity 150's.
I guess I'll have to get new speakers.

It's so much easier justify new Computer parts as my CFO doesn't understand them, new speakers would be obvious...

 

[digicidal]

I wish I'd known about the speakers when I dropped $200 on the Infinity 150's.
I guess I'll have to get new speakers.

It's so much easier justify new Computer parts as my CFO doesn't understand them, new speakers would be obvious...

LOL! I hear that... that's my current ultimatum... get whatever you want - but after that NO MORE PARADE OF SPEAKERS!!! Of course, she regularly uses at least 3 pairs currently around the house - so she's not TOO upset about it.

Before you completely give up on the Infinitys - give them a chance. Their FR plot may not look all that fantastic - but you should hear what people have said about the Polk RTi A-line and I absolutely love my RTiA1's (at least for casual listening).

No matter what the chart looks like you're not in a competition and we're not talking about a black-or-white issue with speakers. Sure there are plenty that will sound better than those Infinitys - but there are plenty that will sound much worse. Plus everyone's ears are different - I really liked my Klipsch speakers for years... until I had auditioned many others speakers that didn't have horns on the tweeters - now I can't even take using them as PC speakers.

As far as the 24bit/16bit - if it were clearly that much better sound in every way... then it wouldn't be taking so long to become the adopted standard for recordings. Obviously for the majority of listeners, red book CD (16/44) is pretty damn good - and although it may not be 100% of the resolution you could be hearing... it will still be plenty 'listenable'.

I've listened to some dual recorded tracks that you can download in both 24/192 and 16/44 - and although I was able to detect subtle improvements in some areas... it was more like the difference between older CDs and newer ones with better mastering - it wasn't nearly as noticeable as the move from analog cassettes to CDs (which was a big change - not all of it good IMO).

If you're really that concerned with the USB power aspect and you're willing to pay a little more money - you can simply get one of the USB DAC's that has it's own PS - there are several. I have the DACMagic by Cambridge Audio which is nice, but way too expensive for what it is... however, I like it because it has multiple inputs so I can connect my PC and 2 other digital sources to it and switch between them.

Of note: the DACMagic I have is an fixed upsampling (everything is upsampled to 24/192) but the USB only allows up to 16/48 as input (coax and optical are not limited and can be anything up to 24/96). It has it's own 12V wallwart so the only thing the USB has to do is pass data not power the DAC at the same time.

I agree with BSA in this not really being necessary - but if it's of appreciable concern to you there are alternatives (albeit not in the same pricerange).

 

[Hemlock]

Awesome, thanks.

I will order the USB and address the power issue as/if it appears.

$30 is tough to beat.