Sony VPL HS51 Front Projector

[papostol]

Hi all,

Has anyone installed a Sony VPL HS51 front projector? I currently in the market for one and wanted any insight from someone who knows about this projector.

I plan on using a 110" Dalite.

Thanks! Peter

 

[df4801]

Better have a dark room for that projector. Its not very bright.
If you didnt buy yet, you may want to look at some alternatives.

 

[papostol]

It's going in a dedicated theater. Do you think that's okay for that?

 

[df4801]

It should be ok for that. I have seen those pj's for close to $2K. You should also check on avsforum.com, you can get advice there from actual owners of the hs51, (instead of someone like me who just stayed at a holiday inn last night)
Also could consider epson 550, a newer model with about same price.
Panasonic 900 also in same range.

 

[mtrycrafts]

A Word of Caution

Hi all,

Has anyone installed a Sony VPL HS51 front projector? I currently in the market for one and wanted any insight from someone who knows about this projector.

I plan on using a 110" Dalite.

Thanks! Peter

You are proposing a huge screen. Do you know the distance from the screen you need to hang it??? For that size, your room may not be long enough.

I am investigating these issues, reading different web sites such as Runco, etc.
Light output on the screen is not an easy proposition to determine.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/distortion.html#

Before you buy any front projector, research this, how much actual light in foot Lambert (Lumens per sq. ft) will be on your screen at the size you intend to use and the projector's video calibrated to a known standard, at 6500K.

No, the published Lumen is not even close nor gives you an idea. In my research, this figure is what a projector will output at full blast, uncalibrated and usually around 9000K - 16000K temps. At 6500K Runco only gets 48% of the lumen number they advertised as ANSI Lumens. Other projectors may differ on that percentage.

Theaters using film has a goal of 16 ft-Lambert with no film and open gate.

Runco has some such specs published at their web site for their projectors but you have to look carefully. They publish 3 different light levels: ANSI lumens, CSMS lumens and ft-Lambert.

Magazine reviews such as Sound & Video publishes the display light out or reflection on a screen as yours(not its size) in foot Lamberts. But, this depends on your screen size. Runco uses a 72" wide screen. Its area is almost 1/2 the size of yours so your screen would get 1/2 the foot-lambert. So, if their projector is rated at 18FL you would get only about 9 FL.

When you calculate the square footage of the Runco screen size(72"x40") and multiply that by the Foot Lambert rating of their projector, it doesn't equal their 6500K calibrated light output they call CSMS Lumens. It is less.

The bigger your screen, the more your planned projector needs to output. I am still researching and have yet to read that link above. It may have the answers, not sure.

Make a long story short, there is more to this than meets the eye and may be in for a dark picture and a disappointment. Sorry for the bad news.

 

[The Dukester]

Before you buy, you may want to see if the replacement for that pj that is already out elsewhere will be available in the US soon. There may be something coming out at CES this week about the release date. From what I have read, the new model is much better than the 51. It will supposedly be called the 51a in the US. Seems like it is the 61 elsewhere. Something to consider if you want the Sony. There is a lot of talk about it on the AVS forum.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I wouldn't get the HS-51 with the competition out there that is so hot. If you are talking about a 110" diagonal, then that really isn't that big, and falls into the 'average' home theater size.

At that size I would put the Sanyo Z4 on the short list for overall quality and might throw the Mitsubishi HC-3000 in there as well if I had the placement options which allowed it to work for me.

Lumens can be adjusted a good bit for most projectors and screens can be purchased to kick brightness up (or down) a bit. If you haven't ordered the screen yet, then you may want to consider first getting the projector you want, and trying different sizes to find the size that makes you the happiest. This, of course, requires projection onto a white wall.

Tons of other screen choices as well that can save you a fair bit of cash unless you are going with a cheapie roll up screen. Or worse - an electric roll up screen.

Most home theater projectors put out plenty of light to handle up to about a 120" diagonal screen in a dark environment. My older Panny PT-L300U puts out far less light than the AE700 and works very well on a 106" diagonal .8 gain Draper screen after dark. But, yes, I would like a bit more kick since my screen gain is low, and I am in my family room so would like some more daytime options. That means I have the Epson 550 and 800 on my short list right now for brighter conditions. InFocus 7210 if my budget allowed.

Runco? NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER on any list that I will have.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Lumens can be adjusted a good bit for most projectors

Not when you calibrate it to 6500K.



Most home theater projectors put out plenty of light to handle up to about a 120" diagonal screen in a dark environment.


Better read that Runco link. Theaters are 16fL supposedly but the owners down rate the lights out to save lamp lite.

Then check the fL of some of the Runco projectors and the screen size they measure it on, a 72" wide screen, an 82" diagonal. You go to a 120" diagonal and your square footage is twice, your fL will be half.
Call Infocus for their fL measurement on that 7210, same as the Runco 710.
If 10fL enough for you, enjoy.

 

[LEVESQUE]

Just use a high gain screen to get more ftL.

I'm using a 110" Da-Lite Hi-Power (gain of 3) with my new Sony "Ruby" VPLVW100 and I have to blink in bright scenes (dedicated black rooms w/o any windows, motorized 4 way masking system).

You should definitely consider the new 51a (HS61 in other regions...) over the HS51. It's shipping in some places right now.

But if you have the money, the new Sony VPLVW100 (aka Ruby) is the bomb right now.

 

[papostol]

Thanks you all so much. Very helpful insight. Good thing I asked.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Take a look over at www.projectorcentral.com if you haven't yet as well.

I think Mtyr is right about post calibration levels, but I haven't seen a projector in a dark room on a 100" screen in quite a while that has looked anything less than stunning. Forget tests, forget calibration, forget rated lumens.

The Ruby ($10K) is not a very bright projector, but as said above appears to be a bit bright in certain scenes on a 110" screen.

The Epson 550 is rated at (up to) 1400 lumens and can actually deliver close to that - not calibrated of course. But, in a brighter room (some lights on/indirect sunlight) that's enough to give a decent image. Turn the lights off and drop the lumens down and use a 1.3 gain screen? Absolutely killer.

Most of all - 8 years ago people did front projection using CRT projectors. These things were using 120" 16:9 screens (or 4:3) and achieving acceptable results, yet only had lumen output ratings of 100-200 lumens! I switched from a $25,000 Electrohome projector (sold on eBay for $1,000) and got a $2,000 Panasonic PT-L300U - on a 106" diagonal screen. It looks great after dark with no lights or limited indirect light.

Yes, it could be calibrated a bit more and lumens could be dropped some more, but current technology calibrated lumens on a 1.0 gain screen with most projectors can give you a 100"-120" 16:9 diagonal in a dark room with little to nothing to complain about.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Just use a high gain screen to get more ftL.

I'm using a 110" Da-Lite Hi-Power (gain of 3) with my new Sony "Ruby" VPLVW100 and I have to blink in bright scenes (dedicated black rooms w/o any windows, motorized 4 way masking system).

You should definitely consider the new 51a (HS61 in other regions...) over the HS51. It's shipping in some places right now.

But if you have the money, the new Sony VPLVW100 (aka Ruby) is the bomb right now.

Never heard of a gain of 300% screen, but then, I have never heard of a lot of things. Is this what you really mean, or a 1.3 gain?

High gain screens will hurt contrast and can have hot spots.

 

[westcott]

Hi all,

Has anyone installed a Sony VPL HS51 front projector? I currently in the market for one and wanted any insight from someone who knows about this projector.

I plan on using a 110" Dalite.

Thanks! Peter

Review this site. It should have all the answers you need to make an educated solution for your application.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/

Hope this helps!

 

[mtrycrafts]

The Epson 550 is rated at (up to) 1400 lumens and can actually deliver close to that - not calibrated of course.

The only problem with these lumen ratings is that it is not at 6500K but the max output of that projector, anywhere from 9300K and up, at a point where light output declines, like at audio clipping, no more output
When a unit is then calibrated to 6500K, those lumens drop to a level of about 48% of pre calibration level.

Yes, the older CRT projectors were dark and not even close to what a standard theater should be putting out, 16fL. That would be my reference as most anything else I would not have a reference to light levels.

1500 ANSi lumens would give about 27 fL on a 72" screen, half on a 100" screen, close to a theater if that theater is not derated as 50% are about 11fL.

As I am reading that link which I had but not explored it much, I need to re-examin the fL and Lumen issues with LCD as you get more lumens on the LCD with the same watt lamp.

 

[BMXTRIX]

mtry - I hear what you are saying man, but I can tell you that I haven't seen a projector in a 100% dark home theater that has failed to perform on a 100" screen.

From the InFocus 4805 to the Sim2 HT300e - That's $1,000 to $15,000 those suckers all have nearly identical light level output and they all look phenomenal. Getting hung up on numbers simply is not accurate to the reality that these projectors are putting out. They photograph well, they actually look awesome. Unless the numbers you are providing actually mean something more than what I am seeing every time I turn one of these projectors on, they don't mean a thing.

I get what you are saying, but I am telling you - it just doesn't matter.

 

[LEVESQUE]

Never heard of a gain of 300% screen, but then, I have never heard of a lot of things. Is this what you really mean, or a 1.3 gain?

High gain screens will hurt contrast and can have hot spots.

The Da-Lite Hi-Power is a retro-reflective screen with a gain of 2.8. The Vutec Silverstar is around 3 also.

The Hi-Power doesn't hotspot at all, and doesn't hurt contrast. When you raise the black level, you also raise the white level, and you adjust to that. You're talking about CRT that hotspot, not digital.

The most popular screen for the Ruby is the Da-Lite Hi-Power on AVS. Don't you think there must be a reason for that? Here's the poll:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=594739

Some reading for you. I really think you should read about the subject.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262466

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=228371

 

[df4801]

Mostly agree with levesque, but if want to ceiling mount the pj, then the HP screen doesnt work as well, and ALL high gain screens will hot spot to some degree.


Hey Levesque, thats some killer equipment you have. Great room also. But I cant understand why you dont have a cabinet built to hide those speakers, it would look awesome.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The Da-Lite Hi-Power is a retro-reflective screen with a gain of 2.8. The Vutec Silverstar is around 3 also.

The Hi-Power doesn't hotspot at all, and doesn't hurt contrast. When you raise the black level, you also raise the white level, and you adjust to that. You're talking about CRT that hotspot, not digital.

The most popular screen for the Ruby is the Da-Lite Hi-Power on AVS. Don't you think there must be a reason for that? Here's the poll:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=594739

Some reading for you. I really think you should read about the subject.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262466

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=228371

Thanks for the links. Now at least I know there are such screens. I wonder what ISF recommends, or engineers from Runco? Any idea?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Review this site. It should have all the answers you need to make an educated solution for your application.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/

Hope this helps!

Yes, that is an interesting search site but the important numbers on the projectors are the makers published data. Hardly reliable as to the on screen foot-Lamberts on a certain size screen when the projector is properly ISF calibrated. ANSI lumens are measured at 9300K and above.

 

[westcott]

Yes, that is an interesting search site but the important numbers on the projectors are the makers published data. Hardly reliable as to the on screen foot-Lamberts on a certain size screen when the projector is properly ISF calibrated. ANSI lumens are measured at 9300K and above.

I totally agree. I would read the reviews and comparisons. Do not believe any published lumen numbers from mfgs. spec. sheets.