Sony UBP-X800 vs. Sony UBP-X800M2

[Trebdp83]

For those unfamiliar with the Sony players, the UBP-X800 and UBP-X800M2 are universal disc players that support playback of 4K/UHD Blu-rays, Blu-rays, DVDs, DVD-AUDIOs, SACDs and CDs. Modified region free versions of both players can be had from various sellers online. These players have two HDMI ports. The HDMI #1 port supports audio/video and the HDMI 2.0 spec while the HDMI #2 port is audio only and HDMI 1.4. Both players are also equipped with a single Coaxial digital port but have no optical or analog ports. For network connection, both players feature a 100MB ethernet port and support wireless N 2.4GHz and 5 GHz bands.

The most important difference in the players is that the X800 does not support Dolby Vision in any way while the X800M2 does support it. Unfortunately, neither player supports HDR10+. The controversy over the X800M2 and Dolby Vision is that, while it supports Dolby Vision, Dolby Vision must be turned ON manually in settings for each disc that supports it. BUT! When turning Dolby Vision ON, ALL 4K blu-ray and Blu-ray Discs will be output in Dolby Vision and users will be forced to turn Dolby Vision OFF manually between Dolby Vision discs to avoid such a thing. I prefer to leave it ON for reasons that I'll expand on in a later post. There are similarities and other differences in the players that I found a bit surprising and also a bit disappointing but I understand Sony's logic here even if I don't agree with them entirely.

 

[Kleinst]

I was able to buy a X800 about a year ago for a pretty good price at the time. I went ahead and bought it figuring I wouldn't miss much on the dolby vision. Turns out a do rent DVDs from Redbox many weekends but none of them are higher than Blue Ray so not sure it matters unless the player upscales the video to dolby vision.

 

[Trebdp83]

Converting the output to Dolby Vision is different than the upscaling process. Turning Dolby Vision ON means 4K/UHD Blu-ray Discs and 1080p Blu-ray Discs will be output in Dolby Vision. Turn Dolby Vision OFF and the 4K/UHD discs will output in HDR10 and 1080p Blu-ray Discs in SDR. Then there are the color space issues. There is a lot going on and there is no Passthrough video feature for resolution or color here.

Outputting the original resolution and color space and bits isn't something the X800M2 does at all. The "Original Resolution" setting in the X800 is gone from the M2. You can select Auto or a number of other resolutions but "Original Resolution" of the disc for output is no more. 4K/UHD discs have BT2020 4:2:0 10 BIT color but neither the X800 or X800M2 will output that way and it is not a color space option in either machines settings at all. I also noticed an error in the display for what was being output from the X800M2. It claimed it was outputting HDR10 4:2:2 12 BIT @60Hz but my receiver and TV both agreed that it was 8 BIT. That is usually the case when BT2020 4:2:0 10 BIT material is output in 4:2:2 as a bit drop is necessary for bandwidth's sake.

"Blah, blah, blah! How does Dolby Vision compare to HDR10 on the damn thing?!" Well, that depends on many things. The connected TV will matter of course, but both looked great. HDR10 is the default when everything in the chain does not support Dolby Vision and/or HDR10+. I'm not working with a player or TV that support HDR10+ so the comparisons here are between HDR10 and Dolby Vision. They both looked amazing but Dolby wins for me for reasons that have everything to do with viewing material on an LG OLED TV. It's all about crazy fast response time and what that does to the 24Hz viewing experience. Those who do not believe in 60Hz output can check out now. I'll be back later to explain myself.

 

[Trebdp83]

Ok, so I believe I mentioned in another thread that "Top Gun:Maverick" presented the best picture I'd ever seen on my TV using the Sony UBP-X800M2. I'll have to be more specific here and say that it is the best 24fps disc I've ever seen on my TV. The best image overall comes from playing the 60fps 4K/UHD disc of "Gemini Man" in Dolby Vision. Holy S@%t! I'd played this movie on the X800 but only in HDR10 and was not able to view it in Dolby Vision until hooking up the X800M2. While the HDR10 image was amazing, lighting didn't look right and colors not entirely natural. When filming in high frame rates, movie makers need to really step up their game. Your brain doesn't need to fill in any info between frames and anything looking less than perfect can really stand out.

"Gemini Man" was actually filmed in 3-D @120fps and you can count on one hand the theaters that were actually able to present it in this way. It's a very flawed film but a really valuable experiment in image quality at high frame rates. The 4K/UHD disc spec does not include support for 120fps or 3-D so a 2-D 60fps image is what you get here. Some will hate the look of it inHDR10. But, what Dolby Vision does for it is amazing. It is perfectly imaged in every way and there is no stutter when panning at all. I was so impressed by it that I wish there were more movies filmed in this way and presented in 60fps on 4K/UHD disc and Dolby Vision because it's just f#%kin' awesome.

Now, Tom Cruise is a big proponent of Filmmaker Mode on new TVs to preserve artistic intent. The rub is, when selecting the Dolby Vision version of a movie for viewing on my LG C1, the Filmmaker mode is not an option at all. For an "accurate" experience of Dolby Vision, one must select "Cinema" mode on their LG OLED. Filmmaker mode will disable many of the picture molesting features of the TV. You know, all of the features to make 24fps material look better because it is an antiquated format that is still in use to save money on data storage as 60fps material would take up 150% more space. It's silly that some demand 24fps playback and then let their TVs s#%t on the image with processes that ruin it more and add image delay.

Anyway, when watching "Top Gun: Maverick" in Dolby Vision, I used Cinema Mode and also had the TV in PC mode. All of the HDMI ports on my TV are set to PC mode. PC mode will disable many of the picture f#%k up features and also is the only mode for proper viewing of RGB(4:4:4) images. When viewing Dolby Vision movies on the X800M2 or any streaming devices, the image is sent out as RGB(4:4:4) 8 BIT, period! "Why?" you ask? Well, it was designed to fit 4K 24fps movie images over HDMI 1.4( 10.2Gbps) bandwidth but HDMI 1.4 didn't support HDCP 2.2 so no go until HDMI 2.0 rolled around and increased bandwidth to 18Gbps and also supported HDCP 2.2. I know, it's a lot to take in. Dolby Vision still works the way it did initially using that RGB 8 BIT tunnel so older devices, receivers and TVs can still display Dolby Vision movies at 24Hz and not hit the bandwidth ceiling. Then, there's the player lead Dolby Vision metadata processing versus Display lead Dolby Vision metadata tone mapping but that is for another time.

Now, with new HDMI 2.0 18Gbps disc players such as the X800M2 that support Dolby Vision, one can set the player to output the image at 60Hz and still have the bandwidth available for RGB(4:4:4) 8 BIT of Dolby Vision. The reason I convert the image for 60Hz output in the player is for the image hold of the OLED TV. Near instant response time means lower frame rates are held on screen a bit. This is unlike CRT and Plasma displays. Many may not notice it. Many may not care about 24fps stutter which cannot be fixed no matter what you do to it. But, you can lessen the hold altogether by letting the player convert to 60Hz so that there is nothing for the TV to hold. Again, it may not be very noticeable to some but I don't like it and convert everything from all players to 60Hz. The bandwidth can handle it and therefore no color subsampling is involved and Dolby Vision does its thing.

There is currently no real reason for Dolby Vision to do it any other way until all TVs and devices support 48Gbps bandwidth and TVs have 12 bit color panels. That is when Dolby will not have to tunnel their 12 BIT process through 8 BIT channels for 4K @24Hz, 4K @60Hz or even 4K @120Hz UNCOMPRESSED. But, getting HDMI 2.1 48Gbps ports on everything is a long way away and may not happen at all. Higher limits are not necessary for movie and TV watching and are only essential for playing games that support higher rates.

Many are awaiting the "Avatar: The Way of Water" 4K/UHD disc. The issue there is that James Cameron didn't think about the 4K/UHD disc spec. It doesn't support 3-D or 48fps. So, even if there is a 3-D version of the movie, it will be 24fps and 1080p. The 4K/UHD disc will be 2-D and 24fps. If he'd done as Ann Lee did and filmed it in 3-D @120fps, a gorgeous 2-D @60fps could have been had on the 4K/UHD disc. But, viewing that 3-D @120fps in theaters would have been done by very, very few and the costs for the film would have blown up out of all proportion. They were already out of control. They could try to process the s#%t out of it for a 60fps presentation on 4K/UHD disc but it would be the first movie disc of its kind as the two movies available on 4K/UHD disc @60fps, "Gemini Man" and "Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk," were brought down to 2-D @60fps from 3-D @120fps. "Why did he film them that way?" you ask? Light, kids. It's all about light. But, that is also for another time. I'm gonna' go watch "Top Gun: Maverick," again.

 

[Trebdp83]

In comparing actual features and functions of the two players, I was disappointed to find some functionality in the X800 missing from the X800M2. The streaming apps selection in both players is a joke and the X800M2 limits available apps to just three. They are Netflix, Amazon Prime and Youtube.

I’m not a fan of disc players with streaming apps anyway, but either deliver what was delivered in the previous model or just don’t do it at all and fix other features and functions. So mediocre were the apps in the X800, I haven’t even bothered with the apps in the X800M2.

While both players have the ability to connect to and play content from media servers and connected usb devices, the X800 can actually act as a network media server. With all of my network connectable devices connected to my network, I am able to access media from the X800’s disc tray, and also access content from the connected usb device from some of my other devices.

The X800 has been moved to another room and replaced in the Main room with the X800M2. If I leave a CD and USB stick inserted in the X800 and want to play that content from the X800M2 in the Main room, I can select the X800 as the media server from the X800M2’s source list and play the CD and USB content from the X800M2. I can also play the content from any of my Smart TV media server apps.

Sadly, this feature did not make its way to the X800M2 and it cannot act as a media server. It isn’t a feature many relied on I’m sure but I hate to see neat features such as it removed.

 

[RichB]

I have just ordered the X800/M2 and will likely return the X700M. The X700 is very light and vibrates like crazy on a built in shelf.
The X700 with Dolby Vision On and UHD Auto automatically switches to Dolby Vision.
A Sony rep on Amazon posts that the X800/M2 automatically switches to Dolby Vision.

Have you tried this lately?

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

I have just ordered the X800/M2 and will likely return the X700M. The X700 is very light and vibrates like crazy on a built in shelf.
The X700 with Dolby Vision On and UHD Auto automatically switches to Dolby Vision.
A Sony rep on Amazon posts that the X800/M2 automatically switches to Dolby Vision.

Have you tried this lately?

- Rich

Don't know but am curious how different the x800 build quality is....the Sony bluray players I have are fairly light/plasticy (but a bit older than these two). The only extraneous vibrations I've had are from a few particularly bad discs (gotta imagine they were pressed poorly).

 

[RichB]

Don't know but am curious how different the x800 build quality is....the Sony bluray players I have are fairly light/plasticy (but a bity older than these two). The only extraneous vibrations I've had are from a few particularly bad discs (gotta imagine they were pressed poorly).

I expect that Avatar way of the water was not the best disc but at 3 lbs, I had to use huge silicon feet to quiet the X700 down.
The X800M2 is 8 lbs, so it should be better. If it cannot automatically switch Dolby Vision on, I'll stick with the X700.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

I expect that Avatar way of the water was not the best disc but at 3 lbs, I had to use huge silicon feet to quiet the X700 down.
The X800M2 is 8 lbs, so it should be better. If it cannot automatically switch Dolby Vision on, I'll stick with the X700.

- Rich

My 3d set plays fairly quietly fwiw. Sometimes you should just return one that plays badly, even if it's just noise from the player and the digital stuff is working fine.

 

[Trebdp83]

Dolby Vision has to be turned ON manually and doing so means ALL blu-ray and 4K/UHD blu-ray discs will be output in Dolby Vision. It must be turned OFF to output HDR10 from 4K/UHD blu-ray discs.

 

[Eppie]

Dolby Vision has to be turned ON manually and doing so means ALL blu-ray and 4K/UHD blu-ray discs will be output in Dolby Vision. It must be turned OFF to output HDR10 from 4K/UHD blu-ray discs.

Would you recommend the X800M2 for a Samsung TV that only supports HDR10/HDR10+? I like the universal disc support that would allow me to try multi-channel audio discs. Would a Panasonic be a better match for Samsungs?

 

[Trebdp83]

I still have an X800 connected to a Samsung TV in another room while the X800M2 is connected to the LG TV for Dolby Vision support. Some swear by the Panasonic video quality but there just isn’t a universal player out there that comes in near the price of the Sony.

While I did stream in HDR10+ on the Samsung, the Sony players don’t support HDR10+ so it was just an HDR10 affair there for discs. Dolby Vision on the LG was a game changer when viewing supported discs. I couldn't tell you if HDR10+ on a Panasonic will be a big improvement in quality over HDR10 on the Sony player.

The flagship Panasonic will cost you much more money and you will lose DVD-Audio and SACD support. I don’t believe the picture will be four times better than the Sony to justify spending four times as much for it. But, some might disagree and may buy both machines for different duties.

 

[Kleinst]

Don't know but am curious how different the x800 build quality is....the Sony bluray players I have are fairly light/plasticy (but a bit older than these two). The only extraneous vibrations I've had are from a few particularly bad discs (gotta imagine they were pressed poorly).

The build quality of the 800 is far better than the 700. Software seems very similar.

I have both and now barely ever get discs to watch. I need to change that!

 

[RichB]

Don't know but am curious how different the x800 build quality is....the Sony bluray players I have are fairly light/plasticy (but a bit older than these two). The only extraneous vibrations I've had are from a few particularly bad discs (gotta imagine they were pressed poorly).

The X800 build quality is solid. It is a hefty unit and far quieter playing Avatar 4K Way of the water, which seems to be a unbalanced disk.
The 700 is a toy next to it and I would have had to place a weight on the top and use silicone feet to stop the vibration for carrying though the shelf and wall.

In any case, I returned both to BestBuy today since I cannot tolerate the stupidity of having the manually enable Dolby Vision for each disk and disable for BD. Oppo's first UHD automatically detected DV in 2017.

This is for a bedroom, so I ordered LG UBK90, though this appears to be a lightweight player.
I should have got more Oppo's when I knew, they were leaving the business.

- Rich

 

[Trell]

In any case, I returned both to BestBuy today since I cannot tolerate the stupidity of having the manually enable Dolby Vision for each disk and disable for BD. Oppo's first UHD automatically detected DV in 2017.

Absolutely dumb from Sony and the major reason for me not buying the X800M2.

 

[RichB]

Absolutely dumb from Sony and the major reason for me not buying the X800M2.

It’s a shame because the X800M2 is otherwise very nice, fast, and well built.
The menu is simpler on the X800 and prefer it to the X700 since it omitted the streaming options, on the Home Screen.
Sony has their way and SLOW to respond to customers.

I also dislike their TV Calibration system, LG is much better.

- Rich