SONY STR-DE475 BASEMENT RADIO

[chuckhorton]

Hello!

I am brand new here and hoping someone can help me out. Just recently I graduated from a lousy all-in-one Crosley to a sound-system broken into a few components. I don't have a lot of money, so I did the best I could.

At the moment I have some simple Dayton Audio floor speakers (T652) and an Audio Technica turntable (AT-LP60). A generous friend gave me his old receiver, which is a Sony STR-DE475.

It all works great! I'm listening to old vinyl again and love it - but I want to hear radio. The problem is that I live in a basement apartment in Somerville, MA - not far from Boston.

Not sure if anyone is familiar with this model or how to deal with radio reception living close to a big city. I just received a loop antenna in the mail (just AM: www(dot)ebay(dot)com/itm/311455287655) and I can get some reception but there's a terrible buzzing sound throughout, so listening to the radio is not pleasant.

My question here is - do I just need better antennae and I'll be fine, or is the problem living in a basement, or do I need a better receiver? Hopefully it's just a better antenna I need, because the latter two don't seem so feasible!

Thanks a million,
Charlie

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello!

I am brand new here and hoping someone can help me out. Just recently I graduated from a lousy all-in-one Crosley to a sound-system broken into a few components. I don't have a lot of money, so I did the best I could.

At the moment I have some simple Dayton Audio floor speakers (T652) and an Audio Technica turntable (AT-LP60). A generous friend gave me his old receiver, which is a Sony STR-DE475.

It all works great! I'm listening to old vinyl again and love it - but I want to hear radio. The problem is that I live in a basement apartment in Somerville, MA - not far from Boston.

Not sure if anyone is familiar with this model or how to deal with radio reception living close to a big city. I just received a loop antenna in the mail (just AM: www(dot)ebay(dot)com/itm/311455287655) and I can get some reception but there's a terrible buzzing sound throughout, so listening to the radio is not pleasant.

My question here is - do I just need better antennae and I'll be fine, or is the problem living in a basement, or do I need a better receiver? Hopefully it's just a better antenna I need, because the latter two don't seem so feasible!

Thanks a million,
Charlie

Hello!

I am brand new here and hoping someone can help me out. Just recently I graduated from a lousy all-in-one Crosley to a sound-system broken into a few components. I don't have a lot of money, so I did the best I could.

At the moment I have some simple Dayton Audio floor speakers (T652) and an Audio Technica turntable (AT-LP60). A generous friend gave me his old receiver, which is a Sony STR-DE475.

It all works great! I'm listening to old vinyl again and love it - but I want to hear radio. The problem is that I live in a basement apartment in Somerville, MA - not far from Boston.

Not sure if anyone is familiar with this model or how to deal with radio reception living close to a big city. I just received a loop antenna in the mail (just AM: www(dot)ebay(dot)com/itm/311455287655) and I can get some reception but there's a terrible buzzing sound throughout, so listening to the radio is not pleasant.

My question here is - do I just need better antennae and I'll be fine, or is the problem living in a basement, or do I need a better receiver? Hopefully it's just a better antenna I need, because the latter two don't seem so feasible!

Thanks a million,
Charlie

So you thought you asked a simple question? It was once, but not now.

First of all your receiver is probably as good as anything for radio reception.

I have looked at the map and you should be close enough to Boston for good FM reception, or would have been once.

You stated you bought an AM antenna. I'm unclear whether you want to listen to AM or FM radio.

Let me say straight away, that there is so much RF interference in modern homes that AM radio listening is a dead loss and not going to happen.

FM is possible.

However you live in a basement apartment. For good FM radio reception a roof antenna is best.

I suspect you will have to make do with an indoor one.

Now your problem is interference. The best way to minimize this is to increase the signal strength so the rejection circuits of your radio have a chance.

Now there are amplified FM antennas. However they are really useful for a neater installation. In your case they will probably increase the noise as much as the signal, for no net benefit.

The best Antenna for indoor use for your application is this one.

Unfortunately this may not do the trick.

There is now a lot of radio frequency interference in homes and apartments. By far the biggest offenders are LED light bulbs, followed closely by light dimmers. The combination of LED plus dimmers is horrendous.

This shows the spectrum of interference of LED light bulbs.

As you can see it is right across the FM band. The result is an unwelcome buzz.

To solve this RF problem HD radio was introduced in the US and Canada. However you need a tuner that can detect the digital signal in the analog FM mask. In addition stations broadcast on sub channels stations only available in HD.

There were a lot of problems with HD initially. However the proprietary codec has been improved. Since converting to LED bulbs I have had to switch to the HD digital signal, unless I turn the lights out.

I live a significant distance form the transmitter, and I use a Yagi-Uda array roof antenna.

I do get a high signal strength with that antenna. One additional problem with HD, is that its reach is not quite as far as the analog signal. If signal is inadequate there is default to analog.

By far the biggest problem though, is that the public have never taken to HD radio, and the manufacturers are continuing to abandon it. Now only the very high end receivers have HD radio.

New stand alone FM tuners are fast becoming extinct and very expensive.

These are the offerings available. These are from the iBOC ibiquity site, the developers of this HD system, and the manufacturers of the HD transmitting equipment, which is unbelievably complicated and trouble prone.

Since you are in an apartment, I would bet there are lots of LED light bulbs around now and you will not solve your problem with traditional radio. However I would gamble on the antenna I referenced. If that does not solve your problem with your Sony at that location, I don't have an answer for you for traditional radio.

If that does not work, then I suggest you go to Internet radio, which is rapidly replacing traditional radio.

These will stream from your router. You can buy a standalone digital radio to connect to your Sony, or you can stream from your computer, phone, or tablet. If you use Google Chrome you have the option of chromecasting if you buy the little dongle to go in an HDMI port of your receiver. Many sites also have Chromecasting apps for Apple devices.

The biggest problem with Internet radio, especially in North America, is that the bit rate of the stream is far too low, usually around 48 Kb/sec. 128 ks/sec with the AAC plus codec and MPEG DASH can work quite well. The BBC streaming site in the US uses that spec. If you use a VPN tunnel and can get to the UK BBC site you can get 320 Kb/sec AAC plus MPEG DASH. That sounds fantastic.

So, thingss are in a state of flux at the moment. The change of technology in homes, with LEDs being a big problem and now high frequency inductive cook tops being another huge issue.

I think we are in transition from traditional terrestrial broadcast radio to Streaming radio. Now increasingly car manufacturers are building Wi-Fi hot spots into cars, I expect traditional radio to be extinct in 15 to 20 years.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Just wanted to clarify a bit about HD Radio. It doesn't stand for High Definition, despite what iBOC wants you to believe. It used to be hybrid digital, but then this naming was dropped in favor of just HD. To my untrained ears most HD Radio stations sounds like 128mbps mp3

 

[TLS Guy]

Just wanted to clarify a bit about HD Radio. It doesn't stand for High Definition, despite what iBOC wants you to believe. It used to be hybrid digital, but then this naming was dropped in favor of just HD. To my untrained ears most HD Radio stations sounds like 128mbps mp3

It is now hard to tell a bit rate, as the codec has a huge influence on the audio quality.

Lets deal with iBiquity IBOC first. You are correct that HD stands for hybrid digital. That is because the broadcast bandwidth is constrained by the analog FM and AM bandwidths.

Now HD radio can broadcast as a simulcast, where the program is the same as the the analog one.

In 2009 IBOC got licensed to multicast. So programs on HD2 and HD3 could broadcast programs not available to the analog listeners.

Now the total bit rate available in the anlog FM mask is 300 Kb/sec.

However each stream can be 100, 112, 125, or 150 kbit/s of lossy data. The total of all the streams can be no higher than 300 Kbit/s.

Now we get to the issue of the codecs.

This is where iBiquity have, and continue to keep their cards close to their chest. Originally the Codec was a proprietary codec of Lucent known as PAC. It was awful! The FCC almost withdrew their license over the issue.

In 2003 they come up with their codec called HDC. This got approval. The question is, what is it? Most believe that it is a proprietary version of the HE AAC codec. However it is not compatible with AAC or HE AAC decoders.

I think this latter is severe mistake, and leading to the dropping of HD radio in lower priced devices, especially receivers. A big part of the cost of receivers is all the licensing of codecs and HDMI. The world is going to HE AAC fast and HDC is one license fee too many and gets the chop.

AAC is the development of Fraunhofer IIs of Switzerland. Interestingly their chief engineer is Roger Lagadec, one of the most important developers of the CD and digital audio in general while at Studer/Revox, and the designer of my first CD player. He then went to Sony and then to Fraunhofer. So it comes as no surprise to me that AAC, HE AAC and HE AAC combined with dynamic streaming known as MPEG DASH are universally hailed as by far the best low bit rate streams. They are far superior to MP3.

So that is were HD radio stands now. I think it will fail on this issue, and the expense to broadcasters. There have been layoffs at iBiquity. As they improve the system broadcasters have the enormous expense of upgrading the equipment.

Recently here in Bemidji the new iBiquity exporter failed, and then several did not work right out of the box and another failed soon after. So we had no HD signal for an extended period. I now rely on this signal so I can turn on my lights. I will concede it is now better than analog FM. However, the whole system has a bad rap. I wonder how long it will be before iBiquity go under.

Internet radio also has issues. Most are wedded to MP3 streams. Unfortunately far too many Internet radios only have MP3 decoders. So there has been screaming by listeners when their radio does not get their station when it goes to HE AAC. The BBC gave manufacturers fair warning and went to HE AAC MPEG DASH. Despite protest and howls they stood firm. Bear on mind Internet radios and tuners are very popular in the UK. Ones from Linn cost thousands. Over night they were all destined for the recycling center.

MPR here in Minnesota has made two attempts to transition away from MP3 and back tracked. The 48 kbs stream in HE AAC was actually quite good. The 48 kbs stream we have after the last backtrack is awful. They have not used dynamic streaming.

AAC is forward and backward compatible. That is to say and AAC stream can be decoded by an HE AAC decoder and an HE AAC stream can be decoded by an AAC decoder but at reduced quality.

To my ears the best implementation of HE AAC with MPEG DASH is in the new Windows 10 operating system. I think there is a definite improvement over Adobe Flash.

I think that pretty much sums up the state of play at this time.

 

[Swerd]

It all works great! I'm listening to old vinyl again and love it - but I want to hear radio. The problem is that I live in a basement apartment in Somerville, MA - not far from Boston.

My question here is - do I just need better antennae and I'll be fine, or is the problem living in a basement, or do I need a better receiver? Hopefully it's just a better antenna I need, because the latter two don't seem so feasible!

Charlie, welcome to AH. I see TLS Guy gave you his full attention on the subject of FM radio reception . None of what he says is wrong, however it might not be the simple and practical suggestions you need.

As you suspect, being in a basement apartment is a large part of your problem. That may be hard to fix. Your other problem is that you don't seem to have an FM antenna. There are inexpensive things you can try to see if all is not lost. Nearly all FM antennae are variations of the simple half-wavelength folded dipole. Below is a diagram of a simple FM dipole made from antenna wire. Note that it's about 56-57" wide, an average length that works alright for the whole FM radio band. Your receiver probably came with one like this when it was new. They are cheap, $5.45 on Amazon.

If you attach one to your receiver, hold the ends and stretch your arms out so the top of the T is horizontal. Turn around to see if it works in your apartment, and to see what direction gives you the best signal. Folded dipole antennae have a direction in which they work best. Think of a straight line between the antenna tower (you ) and the radio station's broadcast tower. The best reception will be if the arms of the T shaped antenna are at a right angle across this imaginary line.

Another better & inexpensive way to do this same test with old fashioned TV rabbit ears. Extend the telescoping rabbit ears so the tip-to-tip distance is 56" and it works the same as the folded wire dipole, only you don't have to hold it with your arms extended. Rotate it around to see what happens.

If neither of those work well enough, you probably need an antenna outside or on the roof. The 'turnstile' antenna that TLS Guy suggested is designed for outside use in a near urban location like Somerville. It has two folded dipoles at right angles, making it essentially omnidirectional. I have one like that in my attic. I live 15-20 miles away from most FM broadcast towers in the Washington, DC area. There are variations of this antenna type that are S shaped or circular.

Any antenna with more gain than simple folded dipole will probably have to go outside. An example is the high gain FM yagi antenna on TLS Guy's roof. He lives in the Minnesota boonies, and I doubt if you'll need that close in to Boston.

I hope that helps.

 

[TLS Guy]

Charlie, welcome to AH. I see TLS Guy gave you his full attention on the subject of FM radio reception . None of what he says is wrong, however it might not be the simple and practical suggestions you need.

As you suspect, being in a basement apartment is a large part of your problem. That may be hard to fix. Your other problem is that you don't seem to have an FM antenna. There are inexpensive things you can try to see if all is not lost. Nearly all FM antennae are variations of the simple half-wavelength folded dipole. Below is a diagram of a simple FM dipole made from antenna wire. Note that it's about 56-57" wide, an average length that works alright for the whole FM radio band. Your receiver probably came with one like this when it was new. They are cheap, $5.45 on Amazon.

If you attach one to your receiver, hold the ends and stretch your arms out so the top of the T is horizontal. Turn around to see if it works in your apartment, and to see what direction gives you the best signal. Folded dipole antennae have a direction in which they work best. Think of a straight line between the antenna tower (you ) and the radio station's broadcast tower. The best reception will be if the arms of the T shaped antenna are at a right angle across this imaginary line.

Another better & inexpensive way to do this same test with old fashioned TV rabbit ears. Extend the telescoping rabbit ears so the tip-to-tip distance is 56" and it works the same as the folded wire dipole, only you don't have to hold it with your arms extended. Rotate it around to see what happens.

If neither of those work well enough, you probably need an antenna outside or on the roof. The 'turnstile' antenna that TLS Guy suggested is designed for outside use in a near urban location like Somerville. It has two folded dipoles at right angles, making it essentially omnidirectional. I have one like that in my attic. I live 15-20 miles away from most FM broadcast towers in the Washington, DC area. There are variations of this antenna type that are S shaped or circular.

Any antenna with more gain than simple folded dipole will probably have to go outside. An example is the high gain FM yagi antenna on TLS Guy's roof. He lives in the Minnesota boonies, and I doubt if you'll need that close in to Boston.

I hope that helps.

That antenna I specked is rated for indoor or outdoor use. It is only $17. In a basement apartment that likely has a lot of LED lighting in the complex, I think that is what it will take. In this day and age that might not do it.

 

[chuckhorton]

Thanks to you all for such a wealth of information! I ended up purchasing the HD FM indoor radio antenna. Let's hope it works.

 

[Swerd]

That antenna I specked is rated for indoor or outdoor use. It is only $17. In a basement apartment that likely has a lot of LED lighting in the complex, I think that is what it will take. In this day and age that might not do it.

You're right. If it can be used outside, there is no reason why it can't also be used inside. And $17 is cheap. I suggested the wire folded dipole or rabbit ears only as a test to see if it works at all. The omnidirectional turnstile antenna has no more gain than those two.

Somerville is an older town near Cambridge and center of Boston. For FM or TV broadcast distances, it is close in. If I recall, it has a lot of older wooden frame houses and fewer high-rise buildings. Maybe the OP lives in an older house subdivided into apartments. Those older houses probably do not have steel-reinforced concrete basements. If it's a newer apartment complex, good luck with an indoor antenna.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks to you all for such a wealth of information! I ended up purchasing the HD FM indoor radio antenna. Let's hope it works.

You are welcome. It makes it worthwhile when people listen and take advice.

Please be good enough to give us feedback, and let us know how it works out. This helps us guide others.

The Bemidji NPR station is off the air totally today, analog and HD. Dollars to doughnuts it is iBiquity junk at the bottom of it. It nearly always is.

 

[chuckhorton]

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the help! The antenna you recommended ended up coming through, but I'm afraid it is way too big to fit inside my apartment. Probably should have clarified I needed something much smaller, and that I cannot attach anything on the roof or outside of my basement flat.

I would still love to get some sort of FM reception through the receiver, and it seems AM is out of the question. Last resort would likely be some sort of standalone player. Before I do that, might there be any solution for an FM antenna that is somewhere around or less than 12" wide?

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the help! The antenna you recommended ended up coming through, but I'm afraid it is way too big to fit inside my apartment. Probably should have clarified I needed something much smaller, and that I cannot attach anything on the roof or outside of my basement flat.

I would still love to get some sort of FM reception through the receiver, and it seems AM is out of the question. Last resort would likely be some sort of standalone player. Before I do that, might there be any solution for an FM antenna that is somewhere around or less than 12" wide?

Unfortunately you are up against the wavelength of the radio waves.

In you case I would make an antenna out f a couple pf lengths of wire.

Here is a di-pole calculator.

If that does not work, I would say you are out of luck in that basement.

If a wire di-pole does not work, I would strongly recommend an Internet radio. This will likely end up your best solution. This will be the way radio will be listened to from now on. There are far more Internet radios on the market now than AM/FM ones.

You can always stream Internet radio form your computer, tablet or iPhone and connect it to your receiver. I think any of those options will be better then FM in that basement without an outdoor antenna.

 

[Swerd]

I would still love to get some sort of FM reception through the receiver, and it seems AM is out of the question. Last resort would likely be some sort of standalone player. Before I do that, might there be any solution for an FM antenna that is somewhere around or less than 12" wide?

Try the TV rabbit ears I suggested above http://www.amazon.com/RCA-Indoor-FM-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B000HKGK8Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1455722030&sr=1-1&keywords=rabbit+ears+antenna. It won't cost much to try it.

Because you are close to powerful broadcast signals in Boston, you might find that even an antenna that deviates from the theoretical ideal still gets the job done for you.