Sony Dn1080 shutdown on protection intermittently - undersized speakers??

R

rizsher

Audiophyte
I purchased the Sony DN1080 and I'm wondering if my speakers are too small for this as the Dn1080 shutdown periodically on "Protection".

The speakers I have connected are in 7.1 configuration .. 1 is a Wharsfdale 2.5 setup, and then I bought 2 more identifical Wharfadale speakers to take it to 7.1, so, in all, there are:

6 peakers of: 3 in front, 2 in middle back and 2 behind:

6 speakers of (pic attached)
Nominal Impe: 4 ohms
Recommended Amp.Power: 25-100 watts

1 central speaker
Nominal Impe: 4 ohms
Recommended Amp.Power: 30-100 watts

1 Wharfdale Active Subwoofer DX2

These are specs I could find the 1080:

2-Channel Driven: 100 W at 6 Ohms / 20 Hz to 20 kHz / 0.09% THD 120 W at 6 Ohms / 1 kHz / 1% THD

1-Channel Driven: 165 W at 6 Ohms / 1 kHz / 0.9% THD

I have the receiver running in 7.1. I turn it up pretty loud and it sounds good to me for movies and music, but, from the front 2+1 speakers; the midle and back, I can hear just some muffled audio.

can anyone advise if these speakers are too small for the DN1080 whicj is causing the receiver to shutdown?. or, worse, the back ones have been damaged??

Is there a fix while using these speakers?.
 

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XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver

Audioholic Chief
First off, visually check for any wiring shorts or issues (doubt this is the problem)

If not, I believe problem is that the 1080, an entry level receiver, is NOT rated or able to drive 4 ohm speakers. Especially multiple 4 ohm speakers at louder volumes.

Solution is to either replace the AVR, if you like the speakers, or replace the speakers with 8 ohm, easier to drive, speakers.
I would lean towards a better AVR.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
R

rizsher

Audiophyte
If only I had aked this question here earlier, I had a Denon X2300W (still have it lying in the attic), that ALSO shutdown similarly, so, replaced it with the Sony 1080, after I asked te Tech Support from the online store I got the Denon from if the Wharfdale speakers were Ok. and they confirmed as much.

I then ordered the speakers, they came, and intermitently, the Denon would.shutdown, by this time, with Covid etc, the reteun period for the Denon had passed... I then ordered the Sony 1080, and have faced the problem since.

Would it help if I switched to 5.1, or even just the front 3 speakers+ sufwoofer?...
 
XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver

Audioholic Chief
If only I had aked this question here earlier, I had a Denon X2300W . . . asked Tech Support from the online store I got the Denon from if the Wharfdale speakers were Ok. and they confirmed as much.
. . .
Would it help if I switched to 5.1, or even just the front 3 speakers+ sufwoofer?...
3.1 might help, less stress on AVR, but does not solve the fundamental impedance mismatch problem.

Ensure all speakers are set to Small in AVR menu.
Also, try Increasing the bass management x-over frequency to >80Hz in the AVR to help lessen load on AVR.
BOL

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If you do shop for an avr, a better plan is to get one with a full set of pre-outs so you can simply supplement it with external power amps if you like to turn up the volume on low impedance speakers. I'd still check for shorts but I'd also think it's just the low impedance/high volume levels. Curious, are you using a surround mode or an all-ch stereo mode? The latter tends to be even harder on the avr at high volume....

Curious, did you use the Sony's DCAC to setup the system in terms of speaker levels/delays?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Warlord
Impedance matching is the biggy when it comes to matching Speakers to Receivers. Many 8-ohm rated Speakers can still drop to a much lower impedance minima at lower frequencies, enough so they present a difficult load that could potentially bust an amp. ;)

Doing things like listening in Multi-Channel Stereo can also present a very difficult problem for many AVRs to overcome as a full signal is being sent to all Speakers. An underpowered Amp Stage would easily be decimated by such power demand.

Depending on your preferences and habits, external amplification may well be a wise choice, especially for the main channels up front.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Impedance matching is the biggy when it comes to matching Speakers to Receivers. Many 8-ohm rated Speakers can still drop to a much lower impedance minima at lower frequencies, enough so they present a difficult load that could potentially bust an amp. ;)

Doing things like listening in Multi-Channel Stereo can also present a very difficult problem for many AVRs to overcome as a full signal is being sent to all Speakers. An underpowered Amp Stage would easily be decimated by such power demand.

Depending on your preferences and habits, external amplification may well be a wise choice, especially for the main channels up front.
The bottom line is that any device with a power amp, that can not power 4 ohm speakers is not fit for purpose and a total waste of resources.

Very few receivers now quote a 4 ohm rating. Most quote a six ohm rating, but you can see that they are in fact grossly underpowered when you look at the specs. critically. Receivers have become a race to the bottom in the under $2000.00 a pop market. Even at those prices, they are not a good option.

It really is important under the prevailing economic exigencies to focus on reliability. That puts most receivers out of consideration currently.

If people would go for AV preamps, the prices would drop and they should. That would leave room for separate power amps, or even better active speakers.

AV preamps and active speakers are the way forward, and those systems need to become the rule.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
At present, most best performing speakers are passive however.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Well, based on the description, I'd say one or more speakers are blown and that will cause impedance issues with any receiver. Both receivers here were played at high volume with perhaps one or more blown speakers and both receivers went into protection mode. I'm going to blame the speakers and suggest, at reasonable volume, putting the current receiver in all channel stereo mode and checking each speaker for distortion. Unhook any damaged speakers and work with what is left after raising the crosser to 120Hz. Those satellites aren't meant to go low and the center is rated at 80Hz. I'd do 120Hz all the way around. These aren't efficient floor standers that can go all that loud and fill a medium or large size room. Don't ask of them or the receivers for more than they can deliver.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well, based on the description, I'd say one or more speakers are blown and that will cause impedance issues with any receiver. Both receivers here were played at high volume with perhaps one or more blown speakers and both receivers went into protection mode. I'm going to blame the speakers and suggest, at reasonable volume, putting the current receiver in all channel stereo mode and checking each speaker for distortion. Unhook any damaged speakers and work with what is left after raising the crosser to 120Hz. Those satellites aren't meant to go low and the center is rated at 80Hz. I'd do 120Hz all the way around. These aren't efficient floor standers that can go all that loud and fill a medium or large size room. Don't ask of them or the receivers for more than they can deliver.
Good thought, would assume people would check for speaker damage but....
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Best performing or rather widely available and understood? There are some excellent active speakers out there....
Would you mind listing a few of them as I have never heard much about them except from numerous subwoofers.. I never saw any in AV shows.

Most HT systems with an AVR don't use them. I guess that their selling prices are also in the higher figures.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Would you mind listing a few of them as I have never heard much about them except from numerous subwoofers.. I never saw any in AV shows.
Genelec, Neumann, Dutch&Dutch, JBL, off the top of my head, plus others. AV shows don't mean a lot....
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Genelec, Neumann, Dutch&Dutch, JBL, off the top of my head, plus others. AV shows don't mean a lot....
At present, most of us are not using them though. The situation might eventually change and at an earlier time if the big manufacturers start releasing pre-pros at decent prices.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
At present, most of us are not using them though. The situation might eventually change and at an earlier time if the big manufacturers start releasing pre-pros at decent prices.
Yes, that's one of the limitations....people buying mid/lower avrs won't be able to even use them. Don't particularly need a dedicated pre-pro, and you need electrical outlets near each speaker (which would make it extremely difficult in my room for both surrounds and rear surrounds). Many people just don't know that active speakers exist, either.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
At present, most best performing speakers are passive however.
That is changing really fast.

Sigbert Audio active speakers.

Dutch and Dutch active speakers with a trend setting cardioid design.


Burkhardt 500 speaker.

These deigns are coming thick and fast now, and this will gather pace. Active speakers with DSP bring a level of performance not obtainable with passive designs. Passive speakers are now yesterday's speakers.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
That is changing really fast.

Sigbert Audio active speakers.

Dutch and Dutch active speakers with a trend setting cardioid design.


Burkhardt 500 speaker.

These deigns are coming thick and fast now, and this will gather pace. Active speakers with DSP bring a level of performance not obtainable with passive designs. Passive speakers are now yesterday's speakers.
It has some limited traction, particularly with those coming from computer speaker situations, or enthusiasts that frequent certain audio fora, but in the bigger picture they're somewhat obscure. It'll take a while I think.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
How do I do that?... Im a 50 yr old wuth little knowledge if such things.
I personally doubt you have speaker damage, but it is possible. The easiest thing to do, is buy a multimeter, if you don't have one, and check the DC resistance across the speaker terminals. The DC resistance will be a little less than the rated impedance. For a four ohm speaker the DC resistance would be around 3.5 ohms most likely. The most important point is that identical speakers should have the same DC resistance. If one is significantly lower, then it is likely damaged.

However, if a speakers is damaged by overdriving, it usually sounds awful, and there is no dispute it is damaged.

I stand by my post, that the culprit is likely another receiver joining a long line of lousy similar devices.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
How do I do that?... Im a 50 yr old wuth little knowledge if such things.
Easy way is putting your ear up to each driver and see if it is making sound and without issues....
 
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