Something I've noticed... (warning, long)

[Shadow_Ferret]

When I first started researching Home theater I, not knowing anything about it (and considering the WAF was cool on the whole concept), I went into the first highend store (no, not Best Buy) and said, "I've got a budget of around $500, what you got?"

He showed me some Yamaha HTiBs. Hmm. They looked like computer speakers. I wasn't impressed. So I said, "OK, I'm new to this game, but I'm an old time audiophile. What can you show me in a real receiver and speakers?"

He showed me a Yammy 550 reciever and the Definitive Tech Cinema 60. "It'll stretch your budget to almost $1000."

Hmm. OK. Now I know.

So the next store I went to I said, "I have a budget of $1000, what can you show me?" He showed me NHT SB1 speakers and a NHT subwoofer. The speakers alone came to $1400. "But with our discount of blah blah, we can get that down to $1200."

What about the receiver? He mumbled something about a Denon 1705, but didn't give me a final total.

OK. So I take my Pioneer SX-780 in to get repaired and I start looking around the store. I ask what they can show me for $1200. He showed me these bookshelfs by Signature Technologies and suggests a Jamo subwoofer to go with it. Along with a Denon receiver. Now we're somewhere in the neighborhood (depending on the subwoofer) of $1400 to $1700!

Hmm. So I guess the trick is, to go into the store and lowball your figure by a couple hundred dollars and maybe they'll fit you in to what you really can afford. Right?

 

[Nomo]

Probably a pretty good plan provided you take a long a good bit of knowledge about what they might sell you in response to your announced budget. This site has been invaluable to me when I have ventured into a store.
As a test, a local one, go into a place like American TV and see what happens. It will also depend on how much the sales weasel wants to make a sale. I got $200 knocked off my Yamaha 1500 because I went in and asked about a 1400 (last year's model) for $600. They had a couple in other stores across the state but for what ever reason I walked out with the 1500 for $600. So indirectly I guess that was the strategy I used.

 

[Doug917]

I always price search equipment on the internet and then go to my local retailer expecting a similar price. I also work with the same stores so they get to know me. Sometimes a nice large wad of cash can help, but these days that's not the case more and more. Also talk to the managers, they are the only ones I will even deal with. Sometimes you have to leave the store and come back. Sooner or later the will need a sale and cave.

 

[sjdgpt]

Package deals!

Package deals!

Package deals!

Say the words until they reverb through your head.

For a business to survive, the business must either generate lots of little sales, big profit on a few sales, or lots of sales that involve bigger $.

Now, we all know there are not a lot of $1 items in audio, so lots of little sales is not an option.

Big profit is always a possibility. But you want to be the sales dude's best friend, and if your sale is not going to generate a lot of profit, then big profit is not the option.

So what can you do?

Package up your purchase. Make yourself appear bigger (and more desirable) than what you really are.

Buying a speaker, receiver, and DVD player is a lot bigger sale than the typical customer, and will get the attention of most sales dudes. Add in a handful of DVD's, maybe a spool of speaker wire, a couple cables, and maybe a surge protector and you have become a highly valued customer.

Bring your mom/dad/next door neighbor and buy a matching setup, and you become royality.

In other words, give the sales dude something ($) to play with. Even a small purchase can be made to look like a big purchase.

I bought my big CRT from CC. I got CC to match the internet price AND give me free delivery. How? Simple. I bought the TV AND two matching racks (one for the TV and one for the audio). Suddenly, I am not just a customer buying a TV, I am now a customer buying a SYSTEM. I grabbed a line conditioner on a "monster" of a close out price, and I am now a big time customer, spending not a lot of money. About 85% of the purchase was the CRT. The rest of the stuff were options that I could have bought elsewhere. The racks were inexpensive, perfect for my needs, and were needed, so why not buy them from CC? The line conditioner could have been bought anywhere, so why not from CC? If I had split up my purchases, do you think I would have gotten free delivery (free delivery on a contract freight company that CC still had to pay to perform the service)?


In addition, treating the sales dude with a little respect goes a long way to getting respect ($) back. Begging, whining, badmouthing, and bypassing the sales dude to only deal with the manager is a sure fire way to insure the sales dude (and his/her friends) will treat you the same way.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Yeah, but can even a package deal reach the low prices I'm finding for things on the net? Or would a store even attempt to match them? Take the NHT SB1 I'm looking at. The store sells it for $150 a piece. I found it online for $210 a pair! I doubt they're going to try to match that.

And it's kind of hard to develop a relationship with a store that is so far out of my way as this one is. The one I do go in on my lunch hour doesn't have anything I'm crazy about.

 

[zipper]

It's hard to get a great discount on just one item.............if you were in the market for a receiver as well as the NHT's, then the salesman might be able to come close to the internet price on one of the two, or even reduce the price on both a bit. They need to make money too.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

I'm in the market for the speakers, sub, and receiver. He came up with the $1200 for the speaker set and then I asked "what about the receiver?" And he just mumbled that they sell Denon and gave me a brochure on the Denon AVR-1705 but never gave me a grand total.

I intend to go back to audition the speakers again before I make a final decision, even if that decision is internet purchase.

Thanks.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I think a lot of it depends on what your final budget is and how much money that really is to you. The Internet, almost always, offers the best pricing available on products. Certain products are ONLY available by walking into a store. In my opinion, this is a guaranteed way of forcing consumers to pay more for a product. (Rotel, Paradigm) It doesn't mean they are bad, but likely have been marked up as much as 100%!

So, the question of finding good speakers that are available online and have good return policies definitely come into play. Outlaw audo for subs? Why not! Great return policy.

You can also look at HTIB solutions depending on your budget as Onkyo definitely makes some in the $500.00 range that will make your ears and your wallet happy AND you can get them online or in store.

I do most of my shopping online though as I am not willing to stomach the markup that most sellers introduce. It just requires more homework on my part... I have yet to be really disappointed though.

 

[gregz]

I prefer to do most of my ordinary shopping online - clothes, food items, gifts, kitchen appliances, etc.

But there are some things you want to demo before you buy, and it helps to have a brick and mortar store with a whole bunch to compare. Speakers come under this category. Yeah, online is cheper, but stores provide a service when you really need to see, feel, or hear something for comparison shopping. That's why I buy my speakers from audio stores that cary them - the markup is less of an issue with long term durable goods.

 

[sjdgpt]

I'm in the market for the speakers, sub, and receiver. He came up with the $1200 for the speaker set and then I asked "what about the receiver?" And he just mumbled that they sell Denon and gave me a brochure on the Denon AVR-1705 but never gave me a grand total.

I intend to go back to audition the speakers again before I make a final decision, even if that decision is internet purchase.

Thanks.

How about the sales dude was having a bad day? Or maybe he is just a jerk that should be working in the warehouse, rather than on the sales floor?

Or maybe, the poor guy does work in the warehouse, and somebody stuck him on the floor to wait on you?

 

[flamingeye]

I don`t know about u gi`s but when looking for speakers go to good quality store find pair u like then go on ebay u will probably get them 1/2 or better price just watch out for shipping coasts

 

[annunaki]

I think a lot of it depends on what your final budget is and how much money that really is to you. The Internet, almost always, offers the best pricing available on products. Certain products are ONLY available by walking into a store. In my opinion, this is a guaranteed way of forcing consumers to pay more for a product. (Rotel, Paradigm) It doesn't mean they are bad, but likely have been marked up as much as 100%!
.

Be careful there with your assumptions about markup. 100% markup would be a $50.00 item (store's cost) selling for $150.00. Those days are more or less gone with the exception of some cables. Most speaker companies at best are maked up 50%. Even protected brands like Rotel, B&W and others are only marked up 40% or so. Margins on B&W and Rotel are not as high as other brands. Rotel, B&W and other companies similar to them have those practices because they see value in their product even at retail pricing. The feel that is what the product is worth and have put a serious investment into them to offer them at that price.

Think about how much money is involved in develpoping a new product. For instance look at the JL Audio W7 driver. There was probably around $5 million or more and 5+ years of development just to get a final product. What is the cost of that first product unit? $5 million plus all the time, advertising dollars and more. If you were one of the first to purchase one, you paid $799.9 for a 12". $799.99 for a woofer that took over $5 million and years to produce seems like on hell of deal to me.

These are the things people never think about. Granted the retailer is not involved with that cost, but someone has to be qualified enough to sell the woofer and explain why it is a better choice than one for $400.00. They do not work for free and they need money to purchase items for us to listen to to make our decisions.

The issue with not supporting a local retailer is that if everyone just uses them to make their decision, soon there will be no local shop to listen to the item at and even make the decision to purchase anyway.

I agree that I like getting a great deal too. The more informed a person is the better deals they can get, especially from a local shop. I have a shop locally that will sell me B&W for only 15% over cost when it is for myself (though I have not purchased yet). I have sent others in to them before and they still get awesome deals too (not just with B&W)

 

[highfihoney]

Hmm. So I guess the trick is, to go into the store and lowball your figure by a couple hundred dollars and maybe they'll fit you in to what you really can afford. Right?

Thats kinda how i do it but not exactly.

First off know the lowest price of whatever peice of gear your thinking of buying,its also invaluable to have a good idea of what the dealers mark up is on that item.

Do all your own research beforehand,know the features you want/need & know what model has them,dont waste the dealers time with demo's & small talk,the more time spent demo'ing,asking questions & making small talk the bigger percentage of profit the dealers think they are entitled to.

I'm every salesman's worst nightmare,im not crass or pushy but i let them know right off the bat,im not the big whale customer of the day,ive done all my own research,i know what i want,ive researched all current prices weather internet direct or brick & mortar,i make sure they know im never in a hurry to loose money,then i offer them a price reflecting a 10% to 15% profit margin for them,i also let them know that i use Audiogon every day & that if they refuse to meet my price its just a matter of a short time before i find a willing dealer on Audiogon that will.

You'd be suprised at just how many dealers understand that a 15% profit is better than nothing,once they firmly understand that they are not going to make next months house payment off your single purchase its much easier to get the right deal.

Please take this the right way,use your internet time wisely,if your looking for REAL deals,instead of surfing or crusing the forums spend your time on Audiogon,email & talk to as many online dealers as possible,before long you'll have a working knowlege of what dealers pay for product & what the mark up is.

 

[highfihoney]

It's hard to get a great discount on just one item

Not really,ive walked out of dealerships with smoking deals many times on just one item,i wont even start thinking seriously about buying until the dealer knocks off 30%,then we can haggle after that point.Ive got dealer bought amp in my house that i walked out with for 50 cents on the dollar.

Dont buy into the old "poor brick & mortar dealer" plight so fast,if B&M dealers want to survive they damm well better start thinking like the rest of the world,fortunes are made by selling volume,not single sales.

 

[Seth=L]

You guys realize you are posting on a 2 year old thread?

 

[mazersteven]

You guys realize you are posting on a 2 year old thread?

I am now Pissed. I have been reading a 2 year old thread. Thanks Seth

 

[Seth=L]

I am now Pissed. I have been reading a 2 year old thread. Thanks Seth

The funniest bit about it is that a moderator responded to a two year old post. I wonder if he even noticed. I think that flamingeye revived a 3 year old post the other day as well (it might have been someone else, but I think it was the same poster).

 

[yettitheman]

The funniest bit about it is that a moderator responded to a two year old post. I wonder if he even noticed. I think that flamingeye revived a 3 year old post the other day as well (it might have been someone else, but I think it was the same poster).

Now I'm here too. What's up guys?

 

[stratman]

Hey some people like nostalgia.

 

[Seth=L]

Hey some people like nostalgia.

I guess so.