Snake Oil

[avliner]

Would appreciate if someone out there could explain the exact meaning of snake oil. Seems to be something related to AV cables, if I'm not wrong.

Thnaks in advance.
Avliner

 

[gene]

Here is an article we did defining "Snake Oil" Basically it defines when someone is trying to sell a product or technology with no basis in science or reality. Most snake oil seems centered around cables which is why we have a section of our site devoted to it.

Check out our cable articles for more information,

 

[avliner]

Hi Gene,

thanks a lot for your prompt reply; very interesting one, indeed.

Kind regards.
Avliner

 

[9f9c7z]

There is a lot of snake oil currently being marketed with respect to plasma backlighting, too. Just as you need speaker cable, but $1000 for a 10-ft cable is snake oil, a plasma backlight helps, but you don’t need a $400 daylight balanced lamp. Indeed, investing is a balanced light source is a waste since what you see is biased reflective light, not the light source.

For anyone that follows the avsfourm, I started to post a detailed explanation about light color (temp) but got off to a bad start. Seems there is a popular snake oil salesman over there, didn’t want to rock the boat. Hell, if people are happy with dumping cash into something they believe works, who am I to pop their bubble?!?

“Ignorance is curable with enlightenment, stupidity is forever.”

 

[Alan Brown]

9f9c7z,

By your own definition, I'm perfectly willing to correct either ignorant or stupid remarks with imaging science and specific documentation of international display industry standards and practices. I'll give you some time to go back and do the homework you should have done before making your irresponsible and misleading statements. You can then decide whether you want to correct your own errors or leave it up to me.

You may be a fine person with many admirable qualities. However, I won't allow remarks such as yours to go unchallenged when I find them. I don't really care so much that you have maligned me personally. That statement reveals much more about you than it does me. What I do care about is your false appraisal of an important element of display image quality, and your foolish propensity for shooting your mouth off about topics you know little about, seemingly to impress the unsuspecting.

This is now an open debate on the merits of CIE D65 display ambient lighting. What do you have further to say?

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

 

[nibhaz]

Mr. Brown,

I wouldn't wait to long for your reponse

If you'll take a look at 9f9c7z name you'll will notice just below it that he as been banned from this forum.

 

[furrycute]

So is this plasma lamp snake oil or not?

Either way, I'm not going to purchase a plasma anytime soon, for the following reasons,
1) Your plasma only lasts a couple of years
2) Screen burn in
3) Regular TV looks like cr*p on a plasma



Until someone gets these kinks worked out, or some newer less expensive technology replaces plasma, I'm holding onto my Sony trinitron.



Okay, I guess I'll get all the plasma salesman on my tail right now.

 

[MDS]

I don't know exactly what kind of bias lighting is/was being discussed, but the concept behind it is not snake oil. It is very difficult for your eyes to rapidly adjust to light scenes when you watch in total darkness so the idea of the bias light is to have a small amount of ambient light around the screen.
Supposedly a color temperature of daylight (D65 or 6500K, I think) is best. While I don't have an official 'bias' light, I do use the the spotlight that illuminates the area over my fireplace when I watch movies at night - it's actually to the right of the tv and shines on the wall to the right of the tv - not on or behind the tv. The little added ambient light makes it easier on my eyes.

By the way your reasons for not liking plasma are part of the myth and folklore about pdp technology. 1 is entirely false, 2 is mostly false although burn-in can happen if you leave static images for a VERY long time. 3 is true of all non-crt HDTVs.

 

[Audioholics]

1) Your plasma only lasts a couple of years
2) Screen burn in
3) Regular TV looks like cr*p on a plasma

I have to also say that your reasons here are not accurate. For example:

1) 60,000 hours life on current plasma technology - and that's just half-life
2) burn-in is either not an issue or is not permanent - unless you set out to damage the TV on purpose
3) high resolution television scales just fine on plasma, though the extra detail may bug you. The perceived contrast ratio on plasma is also very good.

What you may like is how well SDTV looks on a non high-def television. You may wish to read this white paper for some updated info:

Plasma TV Performance

 

[furrycute]

Thanks for the info on plasma.

I have not seen standard TV signals displayed on a plasma. But I have seen standard TV signals displayed on LCD TV. And those are not pretty, jagged lines, wrong aspect ratio.

So plasma displays standard TV signals better than LCD?


And the decrease in luminescence is a real concern about plasmas. I am not an expert at this, but a standard CRT probably doesn't have this decrease in luminescence issue.

 

[Nick250]

I can't speek about LCDs, but standard TV looks just fine on my Sony 37" HD plasma. I have not run a CRT TV next to the plasma, but subjectively I did not notice any change going from CRT to the Plasma for standard TV. As an aside, professional football in wide screen HD TV still has a hugh "wow" factor each and every time I watch a game, and that it's been over a year since I got it.

 

[Alan Brown]

nibhaz,

Sorry for the delay. I was expecting an e-mailed notice that subsequent postings were submitted to the thread, but none ever came. I'll double check my settings.

I missed the note that 9f9c7z was banned. No great surprise.

The home theater community is fairly familiar with the eye strain and viewing fatigue issues that are related to dark room viewing of typical direct view and RPTV displays. That knowledge springs from the writings of Joe Kane and others over the years. Those authors reference the SMPTE Recommended Practices document #166: "Critical Viewing Conditions for Evaluation of Color Television Pictures."

SMPTE RP166 actually devotes most of its attention to viewing environment conditions that affect color perception. Comparatively little space is devoted to the eye strain and viewing fatigue subject. It has been my experience that most folks simply grasp the eye strain concept more readily than the principles that underly human color perception.

A simple condensed version of the topic of bias lighting/backlighting of TVs is this:

No TV can provide its best image in anything other than a darkened room. Most TVs will induce viewing fatigue and eye strain when viewed in the dark. The low ambient light that is needed to prevent this must not be allowed to reflect off the screen. This light should have the same 'white point' as video white- CIE D65 (6500K). The wall behind the TV should be a neutral color.

These color recommendations help preserve accurate color perception of the image on the screen. SMPTE's objective is to preserve the original artistic intent of the program producer, also known as image fidelity. As Joe Kane is known to frequently say, "It's all about the art."

[Edit: removed link. - Admin]

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

 

[Alan Brown]

furrycute,

All phosphor-based displays will gradually lose their light output over time. All phosphors age. CRTs, plasmas, LCDs (their backlighting is cold cathode fluorescent) and the proposed SED panels all use phosphors.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Would appreciate if someone out there could explain the exact meaning of snake oil. Seems to be something related to AV cables, if I'm not wrong.

Thnaks in advance.
Avliner

Think about the so called snake oil salesmen of the past
In consumerland, beyond audio products, the claims are not based in fact and the product will not work as advertised.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

The home theater community is fairly familiar with the eye strain and viewing fatigue issues that are related to dark room viewing of typical direct view and RPTV displays. That knowledge springs from the writings of Joe Kane and others over the years...

Not to mention our moms. "How many times do I have to tell you kids? Turn a light on with the TV! You'll get eyestrain!". I bet that's where Joe Kane first heard it!

 

[Sheep]

9f9 was not banned for direct audio/video falseness, but for disagreeing on practicing methods, and challenging the Admins, and ridiculing them.


Sheep