Small Room needing speaker advice

[sjdgpt]

It is time for new speakers!!!!

And since the rest of the equipment is getting a bit old, why not just upgrade the entire system.

Unfortunately, I suffer from small room disease that is why I need some advice.

The room is a converted bedroom that is 11' by 13' with 8' ceiling, two windows, a small closet and doorway opening into a hallway.

The room is small, but it only has to seat two people!!

Due to furniture considerations, the ideal placement for the speakers will be on the long 13' wall. This long wall will also be used for TV system. The TV will be placed in the middle of the 13' expanse directly in front of the window (thick heavy drapes makes the room nearly dark even with direct sunlight against the window). As you are looking at the TV, the shorter 11' wall to the left is covered by bookcases, except at the point farthest from the TV which has a small window, again covered with heavy drapes. The wall behind the viewers/listeners is also covered with bookcases, except the far right corner where the doorway is located. The right wall has another book case, and the doors to the small closet, and the door position should the door be open.

Yes, somebody has a thing for bookcases. 6' tall bookcases filled with all kinds of ceramics, glass, and surprisingly, quite a few books.

The floor is covered with a very dense high grade carpet and heavy pad.




The question that I have are pretty simple.

What speakers to get?


Musical tastes run from Vivaldi and Handel to Billy Joel and Stevie Nicks, with a smattering of jazz and heavy metal thrown in to confuse the neighbors in the surrounding houses that are trying to listen in.

Movies... "Casablanca" is the finest movie ever made, but I don't think we need to worry about the Dolby sound track. And my second favorite movie is "Mister Roberts", which again suffers from the lack of a Dolby sound track. Oh sure, I watch the Star Wars, Star Treks, Jurassic Parks, Saving Pvt Ryan, and the latest Disney releases, but my favorite movies tend to actually have a lot of dialogue .


My first choice of speakers are the Polk LSi 15's with the LSiC, and two LSi 7's for surround. Sound quality must always be the the primary consideration, but other factors such as the height of the towers comes into play, and then there is WAF. While I dont have a WAF problem, a nice furniture grade appearance (actual veneer rather than vinyl laminate) is appreciated by everybody .

But I have a great concern that I am actually getting too much speaker for my room size. Is that possible? Having too much speaker?


By my computations, I can have the front of the LSi 15's about 30" from the front wall, and the center of the midranges about 60" to 72" apart (TV system with LSiC between the LSi 15's), and the seating between 72 and 84" from the front of the speaker, leaving 6" to 18" behind the seating area to the bookcases behind, and a generous spacing to the side walls.

Moving down to a smaller speaker, such as the LSi 9, would have approximately the same dimensions.

With the LSi 15's, considering my tastes in music and movies, how important would a sub really be? Especially considering the small room size?


Are the LSi 15's going to be overbearing for this room? Should I move down to the LSi 9's? And then, would a sub be that critical for the LSi 9's, considering the room size and the bass boost that could be generated from placing the LSi 9's closer to the rear wall?


Are there other speakers on the market that would have similar tall towers, good physical appearance (veneer not vinyl) and last but not least, great sound that would work in this small room?


Electronics haven't been totally decided. The primary selection has been narrowed down to the Denon 3805. Yes, I have read all the comments, pro and con, about receivers and the Polk LSi's, but the bottom line is that I have a 20 year old 2 channel NAD amp laying around, gosh darn, should the need arise.

How serious is the NAD amp? Back in it's day it was rated to 100w/channel into 8 ohms, 200(?)w/ch into 4 ohms, stable down to 2 ohms, and a huge whooping peak power with the soft clipping circuit, and was used to power my old Infinity RS4's... Emit Tweeter, 3" soft dome midrange, dual 8" woofers and 86 or 87db of efficiency in a 4ohm speaker. If the NAD could handle the RS4's, I think it can handle the Polks.


Is anybody using the Denon 3805 with the Polk LSi speakers in a small or medium room without using a sub, and can the receiver handle the demands of something on the order of the sonic booms on "U-571" at a volume level that would wake the neighbors? How about at volumes levels that won't get you slapped by the WAF? Are you happy with the bass output for music, especially for bass heavy organ or choir works?


Thanks for reading, and I hope I was clear enough in my descriptions and questions to generate some nice responses.

Steven

 

[gregz]

Good questions!

There is no such thing as too much speaker for a room. The only exception would be when you buy speakers that only sound good with moderate to high power, but poop out under low power. Polks don't do that. In fact, not many speakers do that anymore - although there are many that sound good only moderate power but turn into compressed rubbish at moderate power....

The longest wall in my listening room is 14', which is only a foot shorter than your longest wall. For a two person listening position, this gives you plenty of room to space large main speakers away from the walls both back and sides.

Bookcases are a very good thing! In fact, we're looking to buy more bookcases to place in our living room so I can get rid of some of our reflections. My wife's thrilled with this idea, because she reads and owns a lot of books, so it's a symbiotic relationship between reading and diffraction.

The sub is needed only if your main speakers can't go down solidly into the 20's. That bottom most octave that borders upon feeling/hearing is something my both my wife and I can no longer live without. Unfortunately, most affordable subs sold today are made to be loud during movies, which means they are useless unless you like a lot of boom at around 45Hz. Good subs with solid, TIGHT response in the 20-30 Hz zone tend to be expensive because it's a niche market. Subs that low and flat aren't very loud unless you dump a lot of power in them, and they also tend to be large.

Although I haven't heard the LSi 15's, by going with larger main speakers you can probably avoid buying a sub in the first place. That, after all, was originally supposed to be the point of large speakers. In general, I have not been impressed with most tower speakers I've heard on the market lately; too many of today's fashionable narrow towers have no low end response, and give little advantage over bookshelf speakers beyond nice looks and built-in stands.

As far as electronics go, this is where the small room comes in handy, as you won't need as much power. As you know, you can buy a higher end amp with less power for the same price as a lower end amp with more power. Personally, I'm of the camp that besides honest power ratings and decent power overhead, most modern amps are indistinguishable in sound. Almost everything depends upon your speakers. Thus, you'd be well served with either of the electronics you mentioned. 100W/channel into 8 ohms is plenty for a small room, even with inefficient speakers. As long as those are 100 real watts, which they will be with the brands you mentioned.

Listen to a lot of speakers before you buy. Allocate the majority of your budget on your speakers.

 

[anamorphic96]

Hello Steven,

You might consider the LSi 9's or 7's and a sub instead of the 15's. In my experience floorstanding speakers suffer a bit in small rooms and benefit when they have space to breathe. The benfit to using small bookshelves and a sub is flexibility in placement. Plus I feel you will get better midrange and imaging clarity with the bookshelves. Especially when when you use a very rigid and well damped set of stands.

On a side note. I have heard the Polk LSi series and feel the LSi 9's are the best of the bunch. Especially when coupled to a nice sub. The 15's in my opinion are bit sloppy in the lower octaves and dont keep up that well. They bass also seems to cloud the midrange a bit as well. On a whole the Polk LSi series are a very impressive speaker line and are far SUPERIOR to Polks lower lines of speakers. Polk in my opinion has a not produced anything better since the late 80's and when the SDA series was around.

When it comes to electronics you should be fine with the Denon 3805. Audioholics reviewed this receiver and it had no problems driving a 4 ohm load. However running the NAD along with Denon might not a be a bad idea. What model of NAD amp are you using ? I would not be surprised if the NAD trumps the Denon in some ways. Im gonna disagree with Gregz here in that amps do sound diffrent even when they are true to there ratings. I have noticed diffrences when playing similar amps in side by side tests. The best example was when I demoed a Rotel and Parasound amp. Both where great they just did things a little diffrent.

Hope this helps. Keep us posted.

Cheers,
Glenn

 

[zumbo]

Polk Audio would not be a very good choice IMO. I am partial to MB Quart. But not many people here have heard the sound quality of these to agree with me. B&W & Monitor Audio are superb but costly. Paradigm and Axiom should be along the pricepoint of Polk & will smoke them in sound quality. These are just a few ideas. There are many more great choices. Search around Audioholics website for some good ideas. Again, I would ditch the Polk Audio idea!

 

[sjdgpt]

thanks for the advice

The towers just seem like overkill to me, and that is a concern.

But by time I factor in stands, the risk of toppling from a run in with a vacuum cleaner, or worse, my own big butt, the towers seem like a good option. And it avoids the need for a sub..... maybe

It is good to read about people with similar sized rooms, because the room just seems tooooo small.



Hopefully by Xmas the new system will be chosen and in place.

 

[zumbo]

A sub is a MUST for movies & multi-channel audio. When listening to 2-channel music, I prefer to have the sub off. And my MB Quarts are only 6.5's.
Look at these: http://www.mbquart.com/2003/en_US/products/prod_detail.asp?isArchive=&cat=home&series=s line&strt=1&model=QL+S830