Slight distortion (static sound)... help!

[kellyk75]

Hi,

As some of you might remember, I just purchased a home theater and am having some slight concerns.

When the system has been running for an hour or so (doesn't seem to happen before that), I get some slight crackeling like a static sound through the centre channel. It really only happens with specific speach patterns but it happens through all my components (DVD, PS2, VCR, TV). It doesn't do it all the time but often enough to make me grind my teeth. I thought it might be a problem with the centre channel, but when I set the centre channel to "none", the fronts do the same thing. When I set the receiver to 7 ch stereo, all the speakers do this. I have listened to my system a "little louder" but nothing too insane and nothing that should have damaged the speakers. I did follow the Athena break in period and broke them in for 60 Hrs or so before heavy usage.

I was wondering if anyone has experienced this or had any idea's.

System:

Speakers: Athena Point 5 MKII
Subwoofer: SVS PB10-ISD
Receiver: Yamaha RXV-657
Speaker Cable: 12 AWG generic
Power Filters & Misc Equip: NONE

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi,

As some of you might remember, I just purchased a home theater and am having some slight concerns.

When the system has been running for an hour or so (doesn't seem to happen before that), I get some slight crackeling like a static sound through the centre channel. It really only happens with specific speach patterns but it happens through all my components (DVD, PS2, VCR, TV). It doesn't do it all the time but often enough to make me grind my teeth. I thought it might be a problem with the centre channel, but when I set the centre channel to "none", the fronts do the same thing. When I set the receiver to 7 ch stereo, all the speakers do this. I have listened to my system a "little louder" but nothing too insane and nothing that should have damaged the speakers. I did follow the Athena break in period and broke them in for 60 Hrs or so before heavy usage.

I was wondering if anyone has experienced this or had any idea's.

System:

Speakers: Athena Point 5 MKII
Subwoofer: SVS PB10-ISD
Receiver: Yamaha RXV-657
Speaker Cable: 12 AWG generic
Power Filters & Misc Equip: NONE

Well, it is not an issue of component break in, a myth.
You do seem to have a strange reaction to something. You only have this after the system has been running over an hour, right? Same volume level throughout, you didn't increase the master volume?
Interesting that in 7ch stereo, all channels have this. It almost sounds like an issue of the DAC?

 

[kellyk75]

Sorry it took so long to reply. I have really trying to diagnose the problem. When I hook up a different speaker (same set, s.5), I can hear the problem but much less. I am not sure if it is the sensitivity of the centre (91dB for C.5, 89dB for S.5) that is making it less apparent. I have been experamenting more with the 7ch stereo, and it is also slightly there, but much less than the centre. I notice it more with the centre hooked up, but when disabled it is again not as apparent. I am thinking of trying a new centre channel but am not sure if I have to stick with Athena's or if timbre matching is as critical as people make it sound.

Also, would a power bar help? I am running the stereo from a plate that converts a 2 prong outlet to a 6 prong. Could it be the speaker wire (12 AWG generic) laying on the back of my 27" CRT TV?

What is DAC?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Sorry it took so long to reply. I have really trying to diagnose the problem. When I hook up a different speaker (same set, s.5), I can hear the problem but much less. I am not sure if it is the sensitivity of the centre (91dB for C.5, 89dB for S.5) that is making it less apparent. I have been experamenting more with the 7ch stereo, and it is also slightly there, but much less than the centre. I notice it more with the centre hooked up, but when disabled it is again not as apparent. I am thinking of trying a new centre channel but am not sure if I have to stick with Athena's or if timbre matching is as critical as people make it sound.

Also, would a power bar help? I am running the stereo from a plate that converts a 2 prong outlet to a 6 prong. Could it be the speaker wire (12 AWG generic) laying on the back of my 27" CRT TV?

What is DAC?

I doubt a power bar will help. It is not the speaker wire either but try to place it elsewhere as the TV could interfere. Then, when the speaker wire is moved and no change, unplug the cable TV from the wall and turn the TV off. See what happens.
What distance from the speaker is this audible?

 

[Pyrrho]

Can you repeat the problem by replaying a scene on a DVD, or does it happen sometimes and not others? Your comment: "It really only happens with specific speach patterns" makes me wonder if your problem is really a matter of sibilance. But that would not sound quite like a crackle or static, though it would be somewhat similar. If it is a matter of sibilance, it will be repeatable every time you play a particular portion of a DVD where it occurs, and it would be an unfortunate characteristic of your speakers (or an improperly mastered soundtrack, though if it is happening often enough for you to think your equipment is at fault, it is unlikely that so many of your DVDs are so poorly mastered). It would also occur if you played that portion of the DVD when you first turned on your system. Many speakers do not render speech as well as one might want. If it is not repeatable, then it is something else that is the problem.

As for voice matching, it is important, and I would probably either replace all of the speakers or none of them. After all, when something seems to move from one side to the other, do you want its tonal quality to change as it moves? But before you start spending your money, please conduct the experiments above and tell us more.

 

[Pyrrho]

Sorry it took so long to reply. I have really trying to diagnose the problem. When I hook up a different speaker (same set, s.5), I can hear the problem but much less. I am not sure if it is the sensitivity of the centre (91dB for C.5, 89dB for S.5) that is making it less apparent. I have been experamenting more with the 7ch stereo, and it is also slightly there, but much less than the centre. I notice it more with the centre hooked up, but when disabled it is again not as apparent. I am thinking of trying a new centre channel but am not sure if I have to stick with Athena's or if timbre matching is as critical as people make it sound.

Also, would a power bar help? I am running the stereo from a plate that converts a 2 prong outlet to a 6 prong. Could it be the speaker wire (12 AWG generic) laying on the back of my 27" CRT TV?

What is DAC?

After reading my post above:

A power bar is unlikely to help, and we can probably safely rule out your speaker wire (though a bad connection can cause problems - but that would not happen only during certain speech patterns, and would not move to other channels when you switched listening modes).

A DAC is a Digital to Analog Convertor. You have such things in your receiver and you DVD player (for its analog outputs).

 

[kellyk75]

Hi again. Just had a death in the family, so as you can guess..... the experamenting had to wait.

I have done some experaments, but haven't watched DVD's in a while. I noticed on the "Long Kiss Goodnight", there were a few scenes that had this problem, but it is very slight compared to watching TV. I have tried watching through the VCR and the TV audio outs and they both do it equally. A few notes about my hookups, the VCR and TV are hooked up using low grade RCA cables. I will have to upgrade thoes but could that really make a difference? Also, the cable between the outside of the house and my main cable splitter is old RG59. I have also have been meaning to upgrade that.

Watched 24 last night and forgot to turn the centre channel on from previous experaments and it happened quite a lot with speach coming out of the fronts, so if there is a speaker problem...... it is common to all. To me, it is audible from all distances from the speakers.... close or far.

But again, I have experienced this on at least one DVD, but am currently experementing more on that. I am watching "The Two Towers" and can hear it very slightly..... barely audible (could be psycological).

It seems to happen on o's & a's...... as in the o sound in caught. Any Idea's?

 

[Pyrrho]

Hi again. Just had a death in the family, so as you can guess..... the experamenting had to wait.

I have done some experaments, but haven't watched DVD's in a while. I noticed on the "Long Kiss Goodnight", there were a few scenes that had this problem, but it is very slight compared to watching TV. I have tried watching through the VCR and the TV audio outs and they both do it equally. A few notes about my hookups, the VCR and TV are hooked up using low grade RCA cables. I will have to upgrade thoes but could that really make a difference? Also, the cable between the outside of the house and my main cable splitter is old RG59. I have also have been meaning to upgrade that.

Watched 24 last night and forgot to turn the centre channel on from previous experaments and it happened quite a lot with speach coming out of the fronts, so if there is a speaker problem...... it is common to all. To me, it is audible from all distances from the speakers.... close or far.

But again, I have experienced this on at least one DVD, but am currently experementing more on that. I am watching "The Two Towers" and can hear it very slightly..... barely audible (could be psycological).

It seems to happen on o's & a's...... as in the o sound in caught. Any Idea's?

So, it is occurring in the same place every time you play the same DVD? In that case, it sounds like you don't like a certain aspect of the way your speakers render speech. There is probably nothing you can do about it, short of replacing all of your speakers (except your subwoofer, which should have nothing to do with this). The next time you buy speakers, take those DVDs with you to the store, and play the parts that you don't like in your current speakers. And pay careful attention to how other speech sounds before you buy. (Or, at least, only buy from a store with a good return policy, and be prepared to return them if they prove unsatisfactory.) Many speakers are bad in the way you describe. It is poor design, though it bothers some people more than others, which is why there are not many thousands of complaints like yours.

If you just bought your speakers, hopefully you bought them from a local shop with a good return policy, so you can return them and get something better. Something better is likely to cost more money, but not necessarily. We are talking about the qualities of the midrange, not frequency extremes, and this can be done reasonably well for not too much money.

And no, replacing your cables will not help.

 

[kellyk75]

The speakers were the last package at Futureshop and was an "Open Box". Could it be the speakers were abused? Has anyone heard of the Athena Point 5 doing this? I have heard nothing but good things about them. They sound great with music.
I will take the centre back to Futureshop once I find a scene that does this noticibly enough to make a case and see what they will do for me.

 

[Pyrrho]

The speakers were the last package at Futureshop and was an "Open Box". Could it be the speakers were abused? Has anyone heard of the Athena Point 5 doing this? I have heard nothing but good things about them. They sound great with music.
I will take the centre back to Futureshop once I find a scene that does this noticibly enough to make a case and see what they will do for me.

No, it is not likely the result of abuse. It is simply a matter of the design. If the store has a good return policy, you don't need an excuse, just the desire to return it. What does it say on your receipt? Especially with speakers, one should always be able to try it out at home and then decide. So, next time, make sure you check the return policy before you buy.

Frankly, it seems that you are more sensitive to this issue than most people, and you simply need a speaker that is better at rendering speech. It is truly a common problem. I had the Carver Cinema 5.1 speakers, and they had this problem to a small extent. I then went to Aurum Cantus Leisure 2's for the main speakers, and a Bohlender-Graebener Radia X1 center, which pretty much fixed the problem for me. However, the match, though decent, was not perfect, and I then replaced them all with the superior Aurum Cantus Leisure 2SE (U.S. Version) speakers, and all is right with the world. You should be able to find less expensive speakers than mine that don't have the problem that you now have.

 

[kellyk75]

Hmmm, futureshop has a 30 day satisfaction return policy, but of course I didn't start to really notice it until after that expired. Once I noticed it, it became very prominent. I don't know if it is getting worse or if I am just noticing it more. I just wrote it off as crappy basic cable tv. I will keep playing and post my findings. I will find a disk that is bad and take it in to Future shop and have them hook up a new set and see if it is the design.

I may be writing a review on the Athena's if it is indeed the speaker. Nobody thinks it could be the the Receiver?

 

[xboxweasel]

How long does the "distortion" last?

Just a thought....I've heard of receivers picking up 120VAC line noise and transmitting it to the speakers.

IE: fridge compressor turning on. Maybe the furnace. It's worth a check if you can't find anything else.

 

[Pyrrho]

Hmmm, futureshop has a 30 day satisfaction return policy, but of course I didn't start to really notice it until after that expired. Once I noticed it, it became very prominent. I don't know if it is getting worse or if I am just noticing it more. I just wrote it off as crappy basic cable tv. I will keep playing and post my findings. I will find a disk that is bad and take it in to Future shop and have them hook up a new set and see if it is the design.

I may be writing a review on the Athena's if it is indeed the speaker. Nobody thinks it could be the the Receiver?

It could be the receiver, but what you have described, insofar as I understand you, seems like a typical case of speakers not rending speech as they should. Again, what I am talking about would occur in exactly the same place on the DVD EVERY time you played it. If this is not a matter of speech being improperly rendered, you need to say more about what is going on.

The reason I keep talking about DVDs instead of other sources like TV broadcasts is that you can back it up and replay the same portion over and over to find out if it happens every time, and if you are just watching TV, you cannot (unless you are recording it). But if your speakers are not good at rendering speech, it would occur with all sources, but not necessarily all voices, because people do not always speak at the same pitch (frequency).

Most receivers, except when driven beyond their limits, have infinitesimal amounts of distortion. But speakers have audible distortion. From what you have described, it could be the speakers while "nothing is wrong" with the equipment.

And once a problem is noticed, it becomes very hard to ignore, which is a matter of human psychology, not a matter of audio.

If you would like for me to come over and listen to it to tell you more definitely what is going on, I would be happy to do so if you live near me. Just send me a PM and let me know what city/state you live in, and I'll let you know if I am near enough for that to be feasible.

 

[kellyk75]

If you would like for me to come over and listen to it to tell you more definitely what is going on, I would be happy to do so if you live near me. Just send me a PM and let me know what city/state you live in, and I'll let you know if I am near enough for that to be feasible.

That is very nice of you Pyrrho, but just the mention of "state" and not "province" means you are too far to come and listen...... eh!

However; I did some experamenting last night, covering the tweeter, port etc. while listening to really the only audible problem I could find in 3/4's of disk one of "the two towers"... the scene where Gimley gets threatened by the Rohan exiles (geeking out). That could be the speakers (or the movie). I was doing some exploritory surgery on the centre channel & turned my TV speakers back on while the receiver was off..... I watched TV and the TV speakers had the same problem to a lesser extent. I could tell it was less because the tv speakers are much less sensitive than the Athena's. I also noticed that some channels are worse than others, mostly higher channels. Comedy & Cartoon network are pretty bad.

Long story short, I guess there could be a problem with my cable connection and what I heard on the DVD's was either slight sillibance or possible sound engineering flaws. I will have to start watching more movies and see if I have this problem anywhere else. I did notice season 1 of "24" had this problem, but it is rendered in 2 ch AC3. Why does it happen while gaming on the PS2?!? Who knows. I guess time will help figure it out.

If anyone has any advice on fixing the cable problem, or if they experience PS2 noise, I could use it. I will "play" a little more and post my findings. Maybe others will find this thread as usefull as I have. Thanks again.

 

[xboxweasel]

You are on the right track. Keep swapping out cables. Try different sources. Eventually you will narrow it down. Try a different set of speakers. Beg, borrow, or steal them if you have to.

 

[Pyrrho]

That is very nice of you Pyrrho, but just the mention of "state" and not "province" means you are too far to come and listen...... eh!

However; I did some experamenting last night, covering the tweeter, port etc. while listening to really the only audible problem I could find in 3/4's of disk one of "the two towers"... the scene where Gimley gets threatened by the Rohan exiles (geeking out). That could be the speakers (or the movie). I was doing some exploritory surgery on the centre channel & turned my TV speakers back on while the receiver was off..... I watched TV and the TV speakers had the same problem to a lesser extent. I could tell it was less because the tv speakers are much less sensitive than the Athena's. I also noticed that some channels are worse than others, mostly higher channels. Comedy & Cartoon network are pretty bad.

Long story short, I guess there could be a problem with my cable connection and what I heard on the DVD's was either slight sillibance or possible sound engineering flaws. I will have to start watching more movies and see if I have this problem anywhere else. I did notice season 1 of "24" had this problem, but it is rendered in 2 ch AC3. Why does it happen while gaming on the PS2?!? Who knows. I guess time will help figure it out.

If anyone has any advice on fixing the cable problem, or if they experience PS2 noise, I could use it. I will "play" a little more and post my findings. Maybe others will find this thread as usefull as I have. Thanks again.

This is an interesting statement that very much supports what I have been saying:

"I watched TV and the TV speakers had the same problem to a lesser extent."

As I said, many speakers do not render speech well.

As for some channels having the problem more than others, there is no reason to suppose that any two channels precisely process the audio the same way. For announcers in commercials, it is very common to apply extreme equalization to give the announcer's voice the desired tonal quality (desired, that is, by those who make the commercial). A TV station can boost any frequency they want and apply that to everything they broadcast, if they want. They know that most people just use the speakers built into their TVs, and so they may decide to equalize the sound accordingly. Other stations may take a different approach. Of course, before the station gets the TV show or commercial, the people making it applied whatever processing they wanted to it, so you can have many layers of processing applied to the sound before it ever comes to you.

What does all of this have to do with your problem? By emphasizing some frequencies and not others, if they emphasize whatever your speakers are not good at, then they aggravate your problem.

Again, there is nothing "wrong" with your equipment. You know it isn't your receiver or main speakers, because it happens without them (through just the TV). You know it isn't the TV, because it happens with its speakers off and the audio being sent directly to the receiver from your DVD player. You know it isn't the cable, because it happens with DVDs. You know it isn't the DVD player because it happens with the cable. So what is it? It is this: Some speakers are not good at rendering speech. Your speakers, both on your TV and in your home theater, are not good at rendering speech. Really, this should come as no surprise, as all speakers overemphasize some frequencies, and underemphasize others (if they did not, they would have a perfectly flat frequency response, or practically so, like an amplifier: 20-20kHz, +/- 0.5 dB, which is flatter than you are ever going to have with a speaker). Additionally, all speakers distort, and they distort so bad pretty much no speaker manufacturer lists it as a specification, because people might compare it with amplifier specifications and be appalled at how dreadful they are by comparison. When a speaker is sent a tone, it reproduces not only that tone, but frequencies both above and below it. All speakers do this. What matters is how much it does it, what the frequencies are, and so forth, which distinguish one speaker's sound from another.

 

[Cygnus]

Sorry to hear about your loss.