Sigberg Audio SBS.1 Active Loudspeaker Review

Sigberg Audio

Sigberg Audio

Audioholic
@TLS Guy Thank you, I appreciate the feedback! :)

Another thing that's easy to dismiss as insignificant is the 2.5-way design. On the surface it would make sense to think that you could just high pass any bookshelf speaker out there, and you'd get basically this speaker. But the fact is that due to the 2.5-way design, this speaker has TWO midbass drivers in an extremely compact design.

This means the SBS.1 will play louder and cleaner than basically any 2-way (or even 3-way) bookshelf speaker out there, even if they were to be high passed. This is due to the fact that you have double the capacity in the midbass range, which will be the limiting factor in most speakers.
 
Sigberg Audio

Sigberg Audio

Audioholic
May be I have this all wrong, or I'm reading it wrong, But this statement has me concerned. I quote,, Pricey, but shipping as well as import taxes and duties are included . Unquote. What your saying or there saying in effect is if I import a pair of these I will not be paying duty, GST, etc. Someone's dreaming, Put plainly if you want the item you will pay the 10% import duty, or you won't get the goods. This also applies if your buying used / 2nd hand which has already had the VAT, paid on original purchase.
That is exactly what will be happening.

We ship door-to-door with DHL, and any duties and taxes are prepaid by DHL and will be billed to us, not you. No hassle with getting the duty refunded or anything like that, it's all handled in advance. You will pay nothing more than the price you pay on the website.
 
mono-bloc

mono-bloc

Full Audioholic
That is exactly what will be happening.
I don't want to be super critical, but what your saying my well work in the cities, and even that's unsure with DHL closing up shop in Mascot Sydney NSW. The way it works here is all small fright, is handled by Toll or Star Track which is a division of Australia Post.. So pre-paying the Duty, GST, etc goes right out the window. Duty is paid on delivery not on entering the county. But regardless of all that, country delivers are ether handled by Australia Post local contractors with a weight limit of 25 kilo's. Or you have to personally collect from the depot yourself . NO carrier is going to travel 120 kilometers round trip for a small delivery fee. And 120 kilometers is considered close compared to some communities. So saying DHL will deliver door to door is rubbish..

The way it works is you get a phone call from the GST man. You have a parcel, how would you like to pay the duty .Visa or Master Card. Thank you, your consignment has been cleared for delivery. And I've been doing this for many years, and nothings about to change any time soon.

 
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Sigberg Audio

Sigberg Audio

Audioholic
I don't want to be super critical, but what your saying my well work in the cities, and even that's unsure with DHL closing up shop in Mascot Sydney NSW. The way it works here is all small fright, is handled by Toll or Star Track which is a division of Australia Post.. So pre-paying the Duty, GST, etc goes right out the window. Duty is paid on delivery not on entering the county. But regardless of all that, country delivers are ether handled by Australia Post local contractors with a weight limit of 25 kilo's. Or you have to personally collect from the depot yourself . NO carrier is going to travel 120 kilometers round trip for a small delivery fee. And 120 kilometers is considered close compared to some communities. So saying DHL will deliver door to door is rubbish..

The way it works is you get a phone call from the GST man. You have a parcel, how would you like to pay the duty .Visa or Master Card. Thank you, your consignment has been cleared for delivery. And I've been doing this for many years, and nothings about to change any time soon.
I appreciate the fact that you may not get door to door delivery in rural areas, but I'm reasonably sure the duties will still be paid in advance, despite the fact that local delivery may be forwarded to someone else. DHL do this on the time of import to the country, not on delivery to the final destination.

And if you are right in your assumption that this won't work in your specific area, we will obviously still honor the promise of covering the fees, and reimburse you for your expenses.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
@TLS Guy Thank you, I appreciate the feedback! :)

Another thing that's easy to dismiss as insignificant is the 2.5-way design. On the surface it would make sense to think that you could just high pass any bookshelf speaker out there, and you'd get basically this speaker. But the fact is that due to the 2.5-way design, this speaker has TWO midbass drivers in an extremely compact design.

This means the SBS.1 will play louder and cleaner than basically any 2-way (or even 3-way) bookshelf speaker out there, even if they were to be high passed. This is due to the fact that you have double the capacity in the midbass range, which will be the limiting factor in most speakers.
You are preaching to the choir about the 2.5 way. I have been banging on about inadequate resources in the power band you mention for years!

This is a picture of my center.



It is active, except the high pass crossover. The design is a transmission line. The active design allows the speaker to be properly balanced for that through wall location.

All the speakers in that room are active, except the surrounds and ceiling speakers. The surrounds are also 2.5 way. The ceiling speakers are full rangers. A total of 18 amps are used for the eleven speakers. You now have the benefit of improved technology. Most of these speakers were designed in 2004 to 2005 and constructed in 2006. I suppose you could say, I was ahead of my time. But this rig shares your philosophy in the regions were it really counts.







That system gives away the fact that I'm now an old man, and so the system ends up being part museum, as there are very interesting items I have had for years.

I live in the Twin Cities MN now, but lived in the Red River Valley, in ND for many years. There are lots of Norwegians in this part of the world, so you would feel right at home here. If you ever do a trip here, you are welcome to visit and stay. I'm pretty certain we would agree about most matters.
 
mono-bloc

mono-bloc

Full Audioholic
Never mind about him, I'm inviting myself over to polish the ashtray's in the chairs:):):) Three smelly faces is just not enough
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I realize with speakers the whole package is obviously more than the price of parts combined....but $1296 USD for 2 amps and 4 speakers? The remaining $5946 USD goes where exactly?
A manufacturer doesn't just add their parts/material costs and come up with a profit margin when they decide on the selling price. How much did it cost to outfit the design/testing facility? Even if it was done at home, it comes with a cost. What about admin, insurance, legal fees, shipping costs, product development, payroll......
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Retail price for the Hypex Fusion FA253 here in the US is $753.
They also offer a more powerful 3-way version capable of delivering 2x 500w+1x100w (4ohm) retailing at $870.
These are all fully DSP programmable and designed for simple usage in a sub to managing 2- and 3- way active channels in a Speaker. If one were so inclined, you can run these in a Hybrid design with as many passive channels as you may choose. Troels Gravensen has a few designs doing just that, running an active woofer or two below a passive 2- or 3- way up above.
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Retail price for the Hypex Fusion FA253 here in the US is $753.
They also offer a more powerful 3-way version capable of delivering 2x 500w+1x100w (4ohm) retailing at $870.
These are all fully DSP programmable and designed for simple usage in a sub to managing 2- and 3- way active channels in a Speaker. If one were so inclined, you can run these in a Hybrid design with as many passive channels as you may choose. Troels Gravensen has a few designs doing just that, running an active woofer or two below a passive 2- or 3- way up above.
Thanks ryanosaur. according to the article "Each midwoofer gets 125 watts RMS and the tweeter gets 100 watts RMS for a system total of an astounding 350 watts RMS per speaker."
FA123 seems closer in specs to that description
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks ryanosaur. according to the article "Each midwoofer gets 125 watts RMS and the tweeter gets 100 watts RMS for a system total of an astounding 350 watts RMS per speaker."
FA123 seems closer in specs to that description
Not sure I would consider that 'astounding', but using a DSP does eliminate the insertion loss caused by most passive crossovers, so....
 
Sigberg Audio

Sigberg Audio

Audioholic
Don't forget that those 350 watts are not asked to produce bass, which is what spends most of the juice in a traditional setup. Add two subwoofers, and suddenly you're at 2x850 watts, if that helps. :)
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I realize with speakers the whole package is obviously more than the price of parts combined....but $1296 USD for 2 amps and 4 speakers? The remaining $5946 USD goes where exactly?
A manufacturer doesn't just add their parts/material costs and come up with a profit margin when they decide on the selling price. How much did it cost to outfit the design/testing facility? Even if it was done at home, it comes with a cost. What about admin, insurance, legal fees, shipping costs, product development, payroll......
So each speaker has these parts (and please correct me if I'm wrong)
I get $1484 in retail costs just for drivers and amps for both speakers, so @MandM estimation for wholesale price isn't random. Besides the costs mentioned by highfigh, there is also the cost of a custom wooden box which James found very well engineered.
I'm not familiar with Sica brand woofers and I can't speak on their quality, but for example, highly rated Morel drivers go up to $450 for a single 6" midrange woofer
and speaking of Norway, there's a "little" and "unknown" company called Seas, which makes drivers who go into some of the best speakers in the world.
this Seas 5.5 midrange woofer is $300 or this 5" Coax Seas driver for $550
I've just added three random pricey woofers from brands I am familiar with - I'm not saying that these could perform better or worse in this specific design.

My question is using Sica drivers here is because they are top-performing drivers and no cost spared or a budget choice?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
How do you value R&D? Building and testing Prototypes. How many Drivers may have passed through their hands in the process of choosing what to use? Turning on the lights in their shop?

In the DIY world, I see a lot of people looking for the best buy for their dollar; always hoping to find $20 drivers that will do the job of $100 drivers. In fact, $100 Drivers are generally regarded as Premium Drivers.
The art, of course, is in the integration you achieve. But that is selling Skill and Technique short.
What else happens in the DIY world? People don't account for internal wiring, screws, glue, saw blades and router bits, clamps, damping material, sandpaper, paint, soldering irons and solder, the cost of XO components when used instead of a DSP Amp...

Anyway, let's not forget the need of a business... any business venture... to turn a profit... hopefully.

Finding the right recipe to build a successful Speaker Design does not happen overnight, nor does turning a profit.

So once you add in the cost of all the gear required to design and build the Speakers, test them, market them, ship them, pay staff, put food on your own table..................

Where does the balance point occur?

People complain about the cost of JTR Speakers. Why? He's selling you 2 pair of Coaxial Compression Drivers that retail near $1000 each, and your getting 4 Large Woofers as part of the package, along with everything else. Jeff has to pay a guy to build his cabinets, who in turn has to pay a crew to do the labor, sharpen tools, replace tools, pay their overhead...

Just as Sigberg has to do.

Questioning the end cost to consumer based on the retail price of 4 Drivers and two Amps is far and away one of the most foolish things I've seen done. And it's not just here where this happens. I've seen people try to pick apart the pricing for BMR Monitors and Towers AND so much more!
There simply isn't anything productive to be gained in these endeavors.

If Sigberg was trying to save money, perhaps they could order finished cabinets from the same company Sonus Faber does in China. Not all of their cabinets come from there, but some do. Maybe he could get ICE amps instead of Hypex to make these more affordable, and use the same crappy Celestion Drivers you find in the Volt 6 that measured like @$$ on Erin's bench.

The thing I'm seeing, in the bigger picture, is a business that is trying to break into a notoriously difficult field, and do it in style. Everytime something new comes along, there's a crew of detractors complaining about Perlisten and Buchardt and Arendal and Dutch & Dutch and so forth and so on.
But B&W, KEF or Focal can charge $15-25K for Speakers and people are saying, "Cool. I wish I could buy that," and leave it at that.
*shrugs

All I'm trying to point out is that there is a lot of misplaced energy taking time to complain about the premier design... their first Speaker... being offered by a new company which has two Subs and this SBS.1 available while working on a second design. Rather than Support a new effort and design concept and the potential it may bring, the pricing and shipping policies get questioned and criticized.

There's a reason why included Review Threads in the Drinking Game... And this is a perfect example. ;)

*steps off soapbox

Edit: I just want to be clear, this is not addressed at any single post or AH Member. :)
 
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Sigberg Audio

Sigberg Audio

Audioholic
@BoredSysAdmin I have to begin with appreciating that you find our loudspeakers interesting enough to investigate how they are built. With regards to Seas they're a great company that is situated 30 minutes from where I live, our Klippel measurements are from their facility. :)

Those who have followed us know that we've been extremely transparent throughout the development process, and I'm extremely confident in the design choices made, and that you get significant value for money with this setup. You can buy full range towers that cost twice what a set of SBS.1 + two subs costs, and you would not get any amps, you would not get the same pinpoint imaging, you would not get the same dynamic range, you would not get the same low end extension.. I could go on.

Why Sica? An important feature of the selected drivers is high efficiency / sensitivity. We could have used drivers from the traditional hifi manufacturers, but they simply don't make these type of drivers. Doing that would have meant lower efficiency and significantly higher power compression. These particular drivers were selected because the goal was to make a compact speaker without low end extension, and these drivers yielded the best low mid punch.

We did numerous listening tests and lots of measurements including many famous drivers. We simply ended up with these drivers since because they're excellent. None of the others could combine the superb dispersion uniformity combined with dynamics, clarity and low audible distortion for this particular application. That they were cheaper than many of the alternatives was of course an added bonus. We could have used super expensive drivers for the sake of it, but that would have meant way more expensive speakers as well, with little to no gain.

And as others have mentioned, there are an endless list of cost driving elements beyond the unit price of the components of a speakers, so these type of calculations isn't very meaningful. You can find cheaper drivers than these in passive speakers that cost many times what these speakers cost, but you cannot evaluate the performance or value based on that. :)
 
Sigberg Audio

Sigberg Audio

Audioholic
Related digression: Currently assembling the next prototype iteration of our Manta speakers. They are going to be nuts! :eek::cool: And case in point: These one-off, high quality prototypes was anything but free to build. :D

manta1.jpg


manta2.jpg
 
Sigberg Audio

Sigberg Audio

Audioholic
What's going on here? I saw some talk about Cardioid design over on ASR. Anything more you are willing to share at this stage, please? :)
Well, there's an entire develoment thread on ASR that's following the project pretty closely, so there will be some pictures and updates there soon as we start working on this new iteration. Would perhaps be fun with a development thread here on Audioholics as well, not sure about the rules for that kind of thing here @shadyJ ? I guess it would be somewhat of a duplicate thread though, although I guess the discussions could deviate. There's currently one thread on ASR and one thread on a Norwegian forum about the project.

@ryanosaur Anything specific you are curious about?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Well, there's an entire develoment thread on ASR that's following the project pretty closely, so there will be some pictures and updates there soon as we start working on this new iteration. Would perhaps be fun with a development thread here on Audioholics as well, not sure about the rules for that kind of thing here @shadyJ ? I guess it would be somewhat of a duplicate thread though, although I guess the discussions could deviate. There's currently one thread on ASR and one thread on a Norwegian forum about the project.

@ryanosaur Anything specific you are curious about?
Right now, mainly just the simple stuff. What is your design goal and target performance metric. What are the basics of the drivers... you know, a little more of a tease to go with the cool photo! ;) You should save some secrets for the big reveal when it's ready to go.
I only stumbled on the ASR thread by chance just the other day and haven't had a chance to dig into it yet... ASR isn't home to me the way AH is. :)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Well, there's an entire develoment thread on ASR that's following the project pretty closely, so there will be some pictures and updates there soon as we start working on this new iteration. Would perhaps be fun with a development thread here on Audioholics as well, not sure about the rules for that kind of thing here @shadyJ ? I guess it would be somewhat of a duplicate thread though, although I guess the discussions could deviate. There's currently one thread on ASR and one thread on a Norwegian forum about the project.

@ryanosaur Anything specific you are curious about?
A development thread is fine by me, and I am sure the other mods are cool with it too.
 

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