Should I Upgrade from the Yamaha RX-V659 to the Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS?

[Stealth X]

i purchased the Yamaha reciever about 8months ago along with-

PSB Image series (all 5 1/4 woofers)
T45 Towers (dual woofers)
C40 Centre
B15 Monitor Rears
5I Subwoofer (10")

and while i've been happy with the overall quality i do find it lacks a little "oomph" when listening to music. i listen to most of my music via the optional yamaha ipod dock. i know some would say that is my problem, but i actually find the quality and oomph factor the same as when listening to a CD.

2 weeks ago i upgraded my display to the Pioneer Elite Pro 1540 HD 60" Plasma, aswell as a Pioneer Elite DVD Upscaler DV46AV. so needless to say the Elite Reciever line is very appealing right now! i was initially looking at the 81TXS but the sales guy told me i would get a much more signifigant increase in power by going to the 82TXS (130watts/ch opposed to 100 with Yammy).

i have read quite a few reviews and am not really concerned with the negative input i have read about its video scaling abilities as my display is EXCELLENT in that regard, and has plenty of HD inputs to boot, so in fact as of now i wouldnt even be using it as a video switcher.

my situation right now is that there is NO WAY my wife would normally let me get this "toy" after just dropping 10k on a new plasma, especially considering i only got the surround set up 8months ago! however a friend of mine needs a receiver and willing to give me almost what i paid for the Yamaha, so based on that the wonderful wife has given the go ahead on the difference!

my concerns-
#1 - will it really give me a signifigant increase in power given i dont have really high end speakers (tower specs are below)?

#2 - will it do as good a job processing the music from my Ipod as the Yamaha does, as i mentioned the Yamaha seems to play my ipod at CD quality?

i really appreciate the time it took in reading this post, any and all input is greatly appreciated!

Specs for PSB Image T45 Towers-

Frequency Range
On Axis @ 0° ±1.5dB 48-20,000 Hz
On Axis @ 0° ±3dB 35-23,000 Hz
Off Axis @ 30° ±1.5dB 48-10,000 Hz
Lf Cutoff -10dB 30 Hz

Sensitivity
(1w (2.83V) @ 1m,
IEC-filtered Pink Noise,
C-weighted)
Anechoic Chamber 90 dB
Typical Listening Room 93 dB

Impedence
Nominal 6 Ohms
Minimum 4 Ohms

Input Power
(RMS,Clipping < 10% of the Time)
Recommended 10-150 Watts
Program 100 Watts

Acoustic Design
Tweeter(Nominal) 1" (25mm)
Aluminium Dome with Ferrofluid
Woofer (Nominal) 2 x 5 1/4" (133mm)
Injection Molded
Metalized Polypropylene Cone
Crossover 2,200Hz, B3; 500Hz, LR4
Internal Volume Design Type 1.20 cu ft (33.6 liter)
Bass Reflex
2 x 2" Front Port
Video Shielded

Features
Dual, 5-way Gold-plated Binding Posts
Bi-wireable/Bi-ampable
Feet/stabilizers with
Adjustable Spikes and Rubber Levelers

 

[PENG]

Based on the specificatons, the Pioneer should give you about 30 to 35% more continuous average power at a slightly higher 0.09 vs 0.06% THD. The 659 specified a respectable dynamic power into 6/4/2 ohms while the Pioneer did not provide such information. Given that the T45 has a sensitivity of 90 dB (93 in room), 30 to 35 % more continuous average power that translates into less than 1.5 dB increase in SPL, may not be significant enough for you to notice any difference.

If you cannot hear the difference betwee ipod and CD now, you may, if you upgrade your speakers. So my suggestion is, keep the highly regarded RXV-659 and start saving for higher end speakers. Almost forgot, if you decide to wait, make sure your wife agrees to let you reserve the right to exercise your upgrade options when you are ready.

 

[markw]

I concur with Peng.

To put it simply, you won't realize a " signifigant increase in power" with that new receiver.

I know this is oversimplifying things a bit, but although it initially appears to be a big increase in watts, the reality is that you need twice the watts to give you a barely audiable 3 decibles increase in headroom. That 30 watts won't make a noticable a difference. The salesman just wanted to make the sale.

To get an apparant doubling of loudness you need ten times the watts.

And again, for your musical situation, you might want to consider the speakers. Even considering the sub, which only comes in for low, low bass, those 5 1/4" woofers only move so much midbass air.

I've seen many, many pepole complain their system sounds great for HT but lacks for music. I can't ever recall hearing anyone say their system sounds great for music but sucks on HT.

 

[Stealth X]

thanks for the response. i wonder if i could increase my current wattage by bi-amping my fronts? i noticed my speakers have this ability, aswell as i think the yammy offers it.

also would possibly adding a power amp offer me a solution?

as you may have picked up on, i'm not incredibly motivated to get new speakers right away, as then would i not have to buy new sourrounds and centre to match (i thought it was best to have matching woofers on all speakers for surround)? also i was justifying getting a new reciever as i have someone willing to buy my current one, and of course i would get the reciever to match my other new gear.



thanks again for you help.

 

[mike c]

I would suggest an external amp instead of a new receiver. the power difference between receivers is practically nil at what you are looking at.

I understand your situation, while I believe PENG's suggestion about new speakers is best, I would think the wife would not approve of that unless you can sell your existing speakers at a very good price.

what you can tell your wife is that some professionals in the forum said that it's "safer" to have an outboard amp to help the receiver in powering all your speakers, after all, 1 against 5 or 7 isn't fair. besides that, you can bomb her with half truth technical mumbo jumbo about how your 6 ohm speakers are too much for ANY receiver. take it from those who have experience with the wife thing.

the technical mumbo jumbo is very effective. because they don't understand and they don't WANT to hear all that stuff. much like you don't want to hear teeny tiny details of her day.

 

[Stealth X]

thanks for the advice!

would you have any recomendations on a power amp? i mentioned this to the sales guy and he said i would be looking around the $2k mark (for 7.1 channel - i suppose i would need only 5.1, or possibly just 2 channel??), which needless to say would be out of the question for me at this point.

 

[mike c]

Rotel RMB1075 120wpc x 5 1k USD
Rotel RMB1095 200wpc x 5 2k USD
Parasound NC250 250wpc x 2 1k USD
Parasound A21 250wpc x 2 1.5k USD
Rotel RB1070 130wpc x 2 700 USD
Parasound NC125 125wpc x 2 700+- USD
Behringer A500 120wpc x 2 or 360wpc x 1 no automatic ON, but only 200 bucks each (you can buy 2 or how many you like)

personally, I'd go for the Parasound NC125/NC250 OR the Rotel RMB1075.

 

[asindc]

I will second the suggestion of adding an amp. I have a Pio Elite 74TXvi that I run with a Sunfire Cinema Grand 5x200. Significant difference in power, and the 74 is no slouch. I suggest getting at least 200w per channel to make it worthwhile.

 

[zumbo]

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=17203

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=28706

Front three. Let the receiver handle the rear. Best bet.
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=518

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=28866

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=30357

 

[markw]

Why not start with a hefty two channel amp to beef up the front R/L pair? That's where most of the music comes from.

 

[PENG]

Again, your 659 has good dynamic power so it should be able to handle your surround channels for H.T. However, I would not suggest bi-amping your PSB towers with a 27.5 lbs receiver.

Mark is right, if you really want to add an external amp, it is better to spend the money on a 2 or 3 channel 200W amp instead of a 5 or 7 channel 125W one. That way, you will have more power for the tower's twin bass drivers for music. The Adcom, Rotel, Parasound models that zumbo and Mike suggested are good choices. I would add Outlaw's 200W monoblocks to the list, you can get 3 or them for under 1K.

 

[Stealth X]

However, I would not suggest bi-amping your PSB towers with a 27.5 lbs receiver.

so you're saying i should not bi amp these speakers with either the yammy(i've been reading the manual and it doesnt state anywhere it even offers this) or the pioneer (the pioneer does)?

 

[PENG]

so you're saying i should not bi amp these speakers with either the yammy(i've been reading the manual and it doesnt state anywhere it even offers this) or the pioneer (the pioneer does)?

If it doesn't say anything about it in the manual, then assume it cannot do it. Apparently the Pioneer 82TXS does offer the biamp option using the surround back channels.

 

[mike c]

I have to agree with the others that the front channels are the most important, and hitting them up with at least 200w will give you great 2 channel performance while it lessens the load on the receiver having only to power the rest of the channels.

I suggested the NC125 of the parasound because if you one day feel that 125w is insufficient, the NC2125 can be bridged even to 4 ohms loads. all you need to do is purchase a second unit. this option is cheaper for now, but it's best to buy a bigger amp i.e. NC2250 or the other amps suggested.

p.s. don't bother bi-amping with your receiver, I didn't even hear any advantages bi-amping using an external amp. so I really doubt you'll hear an improvement using a receiver.

 

[jcPanny]

Stereo amp

I wouldn't recommend spending $2K on an amp for your current speakers.
Consider trying a Behringer A500 amp for $180 and/or an in-home demo of a 200 Watt/channel amp from the local dealer.

Emotiva has some good 6-7 channel HT amps for $500-$1500. I am considering adding the LPA-1 amp to my Yamaha receiver because my Onix Refrence speakers are 4 ohms.

 

[Nick250]

Are all your speakers set to small and crossed over at 80Hz? If not, that's the very first thing to do. It reduces the load on the receiver quite dramatical. I just scanned the thread and don't think I am repeating anything.

Nick

 

[Stealth X]

looks like some very good advise, thanks again everyone!

no mastter what i have decided i will be getting a 2channel 200 watt power amp, but i am still interetsed in the new reciever if for nothing more than aesthetics, so long as i'm not LOSING anything by doing so.

the sales guy at the local CI shop i deal with is going to let me take a demo of the pioneer 82 home for the weekend this saturday as they are closed sunday so it'll give me a couple days to mess about with it and decide for myself. (as much of a pain in the *** as that is going to be! i couldnt think of a worse piece of my HT to have to swap out.)

 

[PENG]

When you compare the SQ, be sure to level match and listen to various types of music in pure direct mode. Have fun!

 

[moverton]

thanks for the advice!

would you have any recomendations on a power amp? i mentioned this to the sales guy and he said i would be looking around the $2k mark (for 7.1 channel - i suppose i would need only 5.1, or possibly just 2 channel??), which needless to say would be out of the question for me at this point.

Find an OLD NAD 2400, 2600, or 2700 for under $300. It will blow anything under $1500 new away. They are a steal. The 2600 is 150watt continuous with 6db headroom (if I remember accuratly). They are 20 years old but very reliable, usually the only thing wrong with them is dirty pots which can be fixed for nothing. I use one to offload my front speakers from my receiver. It sounds great. Although I would agree with everything said above about focusing on better speakers first if you can.