Should I return my new AVR for a stereo receiver?

[bikemig]

I just picked up a Yamaha RX A 1070 AVR. I also picked up a Sony X900F TV that has 4 HDMI inputs.

So I'm happy with both but I'm a little frustrated--as I always am--by how much of a PITA it can be to set up an AVR. Eventually I break down, read the manual, and get everything set up right. This process would be so much easier obviously if I just used a stereo receiver with bass management, let the TV be the HDMI switcher, and ran a digital cable from the TV to the stereo receiver. I'm only running 2.1 and I will never need more than the 4 HDMI inputs on the TV.

I like music cast so I'd replace the RX A 1070 with a Yamaha R N 803 stereo receiver.


Am I missing something here as to why this would be a bad idea? Or is it too early to discuss returns when Black Friday is still two days away and no one has had their turkey yet, ?

 

[Drunkpenguin]

If you are 110% sure you will never go beyond stereo go for it. The one you have now is more flexible for the future, adding other zones or a center speaker etc. But if never go beyond 2 chans I dont see much in the specs to justify the extra cost.

 

[PENG]

The RX-A1070 is better even if only two channels are used, but if you find it too complicated to set up, then the R-N803 is a good alternative as long as it has all the features and power you need.

 

[bikemig]

The RX-A1070 is better even if only two channels are used, but if you find it too complicated to set up, then the R-N803 is a good alternative as long as it has all the features and power you need.

Why is it better? That's really what I was trying to figure out. It's not too complicated to set up once I break open a bottle of good Scotch and print out the manual . . . .

I set it up the first night. Everything is working but not quite the way I'd like which is why I know I'll eventually have to break into the manual.

 

[bikemig]

I got my new AV receiver up and running. It was frustrating at first as I couldn't figure out how to get the arc HDMI working but a bit of googling around solved that problem. There is still a bunch of things for me to work out but I'm really happy with the sound quality of my yamaha RX A 1070. So I guess I'm not returning it, .

I figure the advantage of a good quality stereo receiver with digital inputs or HDMI is primarily ease of set up in a 2.1 home theater. They are so so dead easy to set up compared to AVRs.

With AVRs you typically get more bang for the buck given economies of scale and lots and lots of tweakability which is great but also can be a real PITA.

 

[KEW]

I just picked up a Yamaha RX A 1070 AVR. I also picked up a Sony X900F TV that has 4 HDMI inputs.

So I'm happy with both but I'm a little frustrated--as I always am--by how much of a PITA it can be to set up an AVR. Eventually I break down, read the manual, and get everything set up right. This process would be so much easier obviously if I just used a stereo receiver with bass management, let the TV be the HDMI switcher, and ran a digital cable from the TV to the stereo receiver. I'm only running 2.1 and I will never need more than the 4 HDMI inputs on the TV.

I like music cast so I'd replace the RX A 1070 with a Yamaha R N 803 stereo receiver.


Am I missing something here as to why this would be a bad idea? Or is it too early to discuss returns when Black Friday is still two days away and no one has had their turkey yet, ?

Sorry, no clear answer from me, just food for thought!
I have looked at the RN 803, and it is an interesting unit.

On the positive, there will be no Video settings to clutter the menu as you are setting things up.

On the neutral, I believe you will still have the same routine for audio setup as you do with the AVR - a lot depends on how much time Yamaha put into simplifying YPAO when they adapted it to a 2 channel receiver. Ideally the surround options will have disappeared from the manual and the display (rather than being grayed out).

On the negative, the 803 has no video connections so you lose the benefit of on-screen display! I have setup a Marantz AVR for a 2.1 system without OSD, but it involves having the manual in front of you so you can successfully navigate the menu structure.

So, IMHO, if Yamaha decided to rework the software from the ground up to adapt it to 2.1, I think you will realize your objective. However, if they did not go through and remove all of the "extra stuff" from the user interface, there will be marginal benefit (or a loss due to no OSD)!

Have you listened to your current setup with and without YPAO?

If you don't need YPAO (and especially are getting a good tune out of your subs without it),I'd either get the refurbished Onkyo TX 8270 for $350 (msrp $600) which has a variable crossover with settings ranging from 40 to 200Hz:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktx8270/onkyo-tx-8270-2-x-100-watts-networking-a/v-stereo-receiver-w/hdmi/1.html

Or the Outlaw RR2160 for $780 (Black Friday pricing through 11/27/18) which has a simple switch on the back for 60, 80, 100Hz, or by-pass:
https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/blackfriday2018.html

I have not really done a thorough review of the features, but I'm not sure, aside from YPAO, what the 803 offers that these do not.

 

[little wing]

I found the 3060 pretty easy to set up. but delving into all the features takes a while. I'm sure you found out that for ARC to work correctly, you must turn on HDMI control. I leave it off most of the time because it does weird things to my system, like the Direct TV remote will control the volume for the entire system which I don't like. I'll turn on HDMI control when I want want to stream 4k from Netflix from the TV app.

The thing about an AVR vs a Stereo receiver for me is that something like the 1070 will give you more ways to tailor the sound to your liking. EQ - Flat, Natural, etc. Or "Through" (No EQ). Extra Bass on or off, Straight, Pure Direct, Dolby Surround ( Only applies if you use surround speakers. I'm not sure a receiver would have all those different ways to adjust the sound.

 

[bikemig]

Sorry, no clear answer from me, just food for thought!
I have looked at the RN 803, and it is an interesting unit.

On the positive, there will be no Video settings to clutter the menu as you are setting things up.

On the neutral, I believe you will still have the same routine for audio setup as you do with the AVR - a lot depends on how much time Yamaha put into simplifying YPAO when they adapted it to a 2 channel receiver. Ideally the surround options will have disappeared from the manual and the display (rather than being grayed out).

On the negative, the 803 has no video connections so you lose the benefit of on-screen display! I have setup a Marantz AVR for a 2.1 system without OSD, but it involves having the manual in front of you so you can successfully navigate the menu structure.

So, IMHO, if Yamaha decided to rework the software from the ground up to adapt it to 2.1, I think you will realize your objective. However, if they did not go through and remove all of the "extra stuff" from the user interface, there will be marginal benefit (or a loss due to no OSD)!

Have you listened to your current setup with and without YPAO?

If you don't need YPAO (and especially are getting a good tune out of your subs without it),I'd either get the refurbished Onkyo TX 8270 for $350 (msrp $600) which has a variable crossover with settings ranging from 40 to 200Hz:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktx8270/onkyo-tx-8270-2-x-100-watts-networking-a/v-stereo-receiver-w/hdmi/1.html

Or the Outlaw RR2160 for $780 (Black Friday pricing through 11/27/18) which has a simple switch on the back for 60, 80, 100Hz, or by-pass:
https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/blackfriday2018.html


I have not really done a thorough review of the features, but I'm not sure, aside from YPAO, what the 803 offers that these do not.

The 803 has music cast which is a pretty big plus for me. Otherwise yes the Onkyo is quite a bit less. I have an older outlaw 2160 in my main stereo set up. It's a pretty killer receiver. Outlaw finally fixed the lack of digital inputs but it lacks networking features.

I could be wrong but I tend to think that lack of OSD is just not that big a deal with a stereo since there far fewer features to tweak and the controls are generally on the front. Plus the music cast app is pretty capable for handling a lot of features and this is how I think it handles the sub cross over as well (via an app).

The one thing I worry about with a 2 channel rig is that you have to make sure that all the inputs are set to 2 channel codec; the AVR doesn't care what you throw at it.

Honestly I'm happy with the Yamaha RX A 1070. It's the nicest AVR I've ever owned and the amp section is plenty beefy enough for my needs. The unit is pretty slick. It is so very tweakable though and that does entail a lot more work in setting it up than any 2 channel rig I have ever owned. I figure that all that tweaking is just part of the fun, right?

 

[bikemig]

I found the 3060 pretty easy to set up. but delving into all the features takes a while. I'm sure you found out that for ARC to work correctly, you must turn on HDMI control. I leave it off most of the time because it does weird things to my system, like the Direct TV remote will control the volume for the entire system which I don't like. I'll turn on HDMI control when I want want to stream 4k from Netflix from the TV app.

The thing about an AVR vs a Stereo receiver for me is that something like the 1070 will give you more ways to tailor the sound to your liking. EQ - Flat, Natural, etc. Or "Through" (No EQ). Extra Bass on or off, Straight, Pure Direct, Dolby Surround ( Only applies if you use surround speakers. I'm not sure a receiver would have all those different ways to adjust the sound.

Yeah it took me a while to figure out that I need to turn on HDMI control. I tried to just set it up by playing with the software before finally breaking down to google what the problem is.

The HDMI control does do weird things to the remotes. It's a bit of a PITA to turn on and off, right? I plan on using the android TV and chromecast for streaming so I think I just need to leave it turned on.

I agree about the tweakability of the AVR is a plus but that also adds to the complexity. I'm also a little skeptical if this is as important with a 2.1 set up as it is when running multiple speakers.

 

[little wing]

Yeah it took me a while to figure out that I need to turn on HDMI control. I tried to just set it up by playing with the software before finally breaking down to google what the problem is.

The HDMI control does do weird things to the remotes. It's a bit of a PITA to turn on and off, right? I plan on using the android TV and chromecast for streaming so I think I just need to leave it turned on.

I agree about the tweakability of the AVR is a plus but that also adds to the complexity. I'm also a little skeptical if this is as important with a 2.1 set up as it is when running multiple speakers.

To turn HDMI control on or off, tap the On Screen button on the remote to bring up the OSD, choose set up an than scroll across the bottom to HDMI. HDMI control is the first option. A bit of a pain I guess, depending how often you turn it on or off. I hear you on the complexity of it. It's a tweakers dream I guess, but if you want to set it and forget it......

 

[KEW]

The 803 has music cast which is a pretty big plus for me. Otherwise yes the Onkyo is quite a bit less. I have an older outlaw 2160 in my main stereo set up. It's a pretty killer receiver. Outlaw finally fixed the lack of digital inputs but it lacks networking features.

I could be wrong but I tend to think that lack of OSD is just not that big a deal with a stereo since there far fewer features to tweak and the controls are generally on the front. Plus the music cast app is pretty capable for handling a lot of features and this is how I think it handles the sub cross over as well (via an app).

The one thing I worry about with a 2 channel rig is that you have to make sure that all the inputs are set to 2 channel codec; the AVR doesn't care what you throw at it.

Honestly I'm happy with the Yamaha RX A 1070. It's the nicest AVR I've ever owned and the amp section is plenty beefy enough for my needs. The unit is pretty slick. It is so very tweakable though and that does entail a lot more work in setting it up than any 2 channel rig I have ever owned. I figure that all that tweaking is just part of the fun, right?

DOH! I forgot about YPAO and other setup options being run via app which would make the lack of OSD a non-issue!

Sure, I would go for the 803!

The only minor disappointment I have with that one is the lack of pre-outs.
However, it should be a good reliable unit for the long haul as long as you don't attach some monster - power - hog speakers (like Gene's Status Acoustic 8T's) to it!

 

[lovinthehd]

Sort of like a rigid bike vs a full suspension mtn bike? While you can do a lot of things with a rigid bike, and the mechanics are simpler and learning curve shorter....the full suspension is more capable over more terrain....but do you need it? Simple 2ch gear doesn't require much instructional help from the manual, true....but not that different to operate really once you're familiar with the setup basics (like bass management/REQ/ARC), altho to really dig on a mechanic's level takes a bit more. Like most analogies, doesn't really cover it either....

 

[PENG]

Why is it better? That's really what I was trying to figure out. It's not too complicated to set up once I break open a bottle of good Scotch and print out the manual . . . .

I set it up the first night. Everything is working but not quite the way I'd like which is why I know I'll eventually have to break into the manual.

- You get 7 channels of amp so you can bi-amp, for fun even if the benefits are generally not audible.
- Can hook up two subwoofers more easily.
- Has pre-outs for external amp.
- Larger power supply, for two channel use, that should give you more head room.
- Has HDMI inputs, you may not need the video for anything now, but you may find use for it some day.

If none of the above are of values to you, then the R-N803 is the better choice, but only if there is money to be saved. The RX-A1070 is now available for $849 brand new. That's the way it is for AVRs, you get huge discounts shortly after the new model is out. Stereo receivers and integrated amps don't seem to offer that kind of discounts. This is really the main reason why I always prefer AVRs to two channel receivers/integrated amps, that you have the option to go for the one year old models at 50 to 60% of their original list price.

 

[KEW]

Just brainstorming this with you...

You might also look at the Outlaw 975 pre and adding a separate amp.
It is currently $300 (I like taking advantage of the BF sales).
As strange as it sounds, you might even consider their combo of the 975 with the 5000 amp for $800, or maybe better would be two 2200 monoblocks to go with the 975.
(I think most of us are a little seduced by the idea of separates with monoblocks even if it is more expensive - at least Outlaw lets you do it without a second mortgage!)

BTW, I agree with everything PENG and Lovin are saying, but at the same time you are a human and what makes sense (in matters of personal enjoyment) isn't necessarily the right choice for you.
As an analogy, my brother lived in NYC for a couple of years. He ran across a good deal on a used car and called me to ask/talk about whether I thought he should get it. I know he wanted me to agree that buying the car made financial sense, but the best thing I knew to tell him was between parking problems, insurance premiums, and great public transport (for his needs),it made more sense to rent car on those rare occasions he was traveling out of the city; however, if he wanted a car because he wanted to have a car, he should get it!
IOW, it did not make financial sense, but I didn't see a problem with him getting it as long as he was honest with himself about why he bought it.

The closest I can come to saying the separates would make more sense is the pre is cheap at $300 and, if you get the 5000 or 2200's they should be with you for decades as you swap out AVR/PrePro's

Edit: but still, 975 has no love for musicast!

 

[bikemig]

Sort of like a rigid bike vs a full suspension mtn bike? While you can do a lot of things with a rigid bike, and the mechanics are simpler and learning curve shorter....the full suspension is more capable over more terrain....but do you need it? Simple 2ch gear doesn't require much instructional help from the manual, true....but not that different to operate really once you're familiar with the setup basics (like bass management/REQ/ARC), altho to really dig on a mechanic's level takes a bit more. Like most analogies, doesn't really cover it either....

Yeah I like the analogy. But I've decided the RX A 1070 is a keeper. It's a really great AVR which does a great job with music. That's important to me. Plus my home theater room has acoustics from heck (brick wall on the inside, glass windows on the other) and the tweakability of the AVR will help. So would room treatments (and probably more than I can do with just the AVR) but I like the room so I'm not doing anything to the walls. I've got a carpet and that's as far as I'm going.

 

[PENG]

Yeah I like the analogy. But I've decided the RX A 1070 is a keeper. It's a really great AVR which does a great job with music. That's important to me. Plus my home theater room has acoustics from heck (brick wall on the inside, glass windows on the other) and the tweakability of the AVR will help. So would room treatments (and probably more than I can do with just the AVR) but I like the room so I'm not doing anything to the walls. I've got a carpet and that's as far as I'm going.

Bricks not that bad and glass windows are okay too if you have curtains. The R-N803 has YPAO REQ too, so that's not a deciding factor. If you are okay with the A1070 now, then I guess is it a keeper and I bet you will soon find use for it's video and multi-channel features.

 

[bikemig]

Bricks not that bad and glass windows are okay too if you have curtains. The R-N803 has YPAO REQ too, so that's not a deciding factor. If you are okay with the A1070 now, then I guess is it a keeper and I bet you will soon find use for it's video and multi-channel features.

I should do some reading on sound acoustics. I know that's a huge piece of the puzzle when it comes to sound quality. The more I use the A 1070, the happier I am with it. It frustrated me at first because it was a bit of a PITA to set up but the tweakability is a plus.

I'm also really enjoying the Sony Bravia X900 as well. With Android TV, I can access all my music on google and stream it throughout the house using music cast. Alternatively I can rely on Airplay and control it from my PC. I use my phone to cast from Amazon music. For some reason, I cannot find the Amazon music app in the google play store from the Sony Bravia TV. You have to love how manufacturers don't play nice with each other.

 

[PENG]

I'm also really enjoying the Sony Bravia X900 as well. With Android TV, I can access all my music on google and stream it throughout the house using music cast. Alternatively I can rely on Airplay and control it from my PC. I use my phone to cast from Amazon music. For some reason, I cannot find the Amazon music app in the google play store from the Sony Bravia TV. You have to love how manufacturers don't play nice with each other.

Do you mean the XBR X900? I have the 65X900E, the black is not as deep/dark as my Pioneer Elite, other than that I am very happy with it. I wish it has eARC, and still hope they might offer a FW update for that but I know that's just wishful thinking.

 

[bikemig]

Do you mean the XBR X900? I have the 65X900E, the black is not as deep/dark as my Pioneer Elite, other than that I am very happy with it. I wish it has eARC, and still hope they might offer a FW update for that but I know that's just wishful thinking.

Yes, the XBR X900. I like the google ecosystem so it has added a lot of useful functionality particularly in terms of music streaming. I have all my CDs uploaded to google play. And music cast lets me stream that around the house. Or I can just cast from my phone and have access to Amazon prime music.

It's also a fine TV. This is actually my first smart TV and I wanted a TV that relied on the google ecosystem.