Should I go from one crap sub to another, 'better' crap sub?

[Brian_the_King]

Yo guys, here's the system in my bedroom:

Denon DRA-395
Denon DCM-280
Infinity Primus 250
Yamaha SW215: MSRP was ~$120, and the supposed "High amplifier power [that] assures enough power to deliver shattering movie theater-like bass effects" is brought on by a 120W/5Ohms/10%THD amp. And I don't know what the woofer is made of, but I feels like a peice of cardboard ;p

Now, this sytem is just used for my listening of stereo music in my room. It sounds pretty kick *** to my 16 year old self and it took me 1.5 years of buying absolutetly nothing + xmas presents + bday presents to get this far, and I just bought cable upgrades from Signal Cable, so I'm kind of ready to not spend any more money on it.

Of course I say that, but then I go listen to music and I'm like "hmm, the bass is with out a doubt the weakest point of my system."

Ok, so first I need to explain how that sub ended up with my speakers. I started my system by buying the reciever and the subwoofer, and stealing some Bose Model 100 speakers out of my basement. Then I saved up, and got a pair of Infinity Primus 150's [bookshelfs], which went well with the subwoofer [they both were 'bad', as some of you would put it ;p]. Ok, but then my CompUSA is getting rid of their HT department last year, and they are selling the Primus 250's for %50! So I returned the 150's [on the 29th day of the 30 allowed!] and got the last pair of 250's, for less than the cost of the 150's.
So, I still use this bad sub with my 250's, since dual 5.25's don't really pump out the bass.

Ok, finally the point of my post; since I've been really pleased with my Infinity's, do you think it would make sense to replace my sub with an Infinity PS-8, or another comparable sub [~$200]? This would be the last upgrade to my system [probably ever, since I'll likely build a new one during/after college], but I don't want to spend more cash if it's not worth it.

Thanks for reading the novel, all input is appreciated

ps; my sub is set up perfectly, I've spent hours making sure. It's either a new sub or bust.

 

[j_garcia]

I'd really look at some of the other offerings on the web in your price range. There are a number of subs that will outperform that Yamaha around that price. The Athena AS-P4000, the Acoustech H-100, the Onyx X-sub (out of stock until July though), the Parts Express Dayton 12" sub...All at or below $200.

 

[Brian_the_King]

Wow! tyvm for all the options, I didn't know there were that many subs that beat mine down for such a small price increase. But I can't find the H-100 for $200, only $250 [just wondering where you saw it for less] and I can't find any website with info/purchase options for the Onyx X.

 

[j_garcia]

Sorry, I don't remember where the H-100 was $200 (was about a month or so ago), or it may be that the price may have gone up. Maybe someone more familiar with the H-100 can help you out. I'll ask a buddy of mine who has a little experience with it.

The Onyx x-sub's info can be found here

I used to have a Yamaha sub and while they are OK, I was truly surprised at the difference in performance when I moved to a HSU VTF-2 which was about the same price.

The Dayton 12" sub is part number 300-635 (can't list links to Parts Express here because they overstepped the bounds)

Then there is also the Cadence X-sub (not to be confused with the Onyx x-sub) that is a 12" for $229. Not bad, not great - I believe in a local comparison, the H-100 was preferred.

 

[Brian_the_King]

Thanks again garcia, I probably won't order for a while, but it looks like I'll be going with the Athena.
Oh and I know you replied to my subwoofer cable question in the other forum, but I have another quick question. My S/PDIF cable that connects my reciever and subwoofer is better than the $15 Monster Cable Y-splitter I have in between the cable and the sub. Does the Moster Cable cable [heeh] negate the higher quality of the interconnect [so the cable and splitter should be of the same quality], or can the signal of the superior interconnect still shine through after it goes through the inferior Y splitter?

Because if the splitter is defeating the purpose of the better spdif, I might have to get one of these when I get a new sub ;p
http://signalcable.com/subcable.html

 

[j_garcia]

I'd say it's probably fine for now, then replace it when you get the new sub.

For ~$35, the Signalcable y cable looks pretty decent.

 

[Brian_the_King]

Sounds good, thanks for all the help

 

[jcPanny]

Sub cable

A $35 cable for a $100 subwoofer?
Doesn't make sense to me. Put the $35 in your new sub budget and stick with your current cables, they are definately not the weakest link. Moster cable stuff is not that bad, just overpriced.

The $200 Onix X-sub from av123.com is definately not a crap sub. High quality parts and real wood veneer. Just don't expect a little 8" sub to play down to 20 Hz.

 

[littleb]

I was in the same boat, last winter. The old JBl PB12 was going on the fritz, and I looked around at cheap subs, but finally decided to get something good. I have cheapened out twice in the past, and the 3rd time I decided it's just a waste of money to skimp on the sub. I purchase an HSU VTF3 because I didn't want to spend $1500 smackers for something comparable to this sub, and I'm ecstatic I did. Rock on.

 

[j_garcia]

The cable looks pretty good, but I agree, it is a little overkill for a ~$200 sub.

 

[masak_aer]

A $35 cable for a $100 subwoofer?
Doesn't make sense to me. Put the $35 in your new sub budget and stick with your current cables, they are definately not the weakest link. Moster cable stuff is not that bad, just overpriced.

The $200 Onix X-sub from av123.com is definately not a crap sub. High quality parts and real wood veneer. Just don't expect a little 8" sub to play down to 20 Hz.

The Onix x-sub..which color do you think is better with my Mordaunt? They have black and shadow maple. I have a maple colored mordaunt. I am just not sure whether it will have the same shade of maple though.

 

[tomd51]

Hey Brian;
I was somewhat in the same boat you're in a few months ago. I was looking for a small form factor sub for my second setup and I complied a short list of subs, the Athena AS-P4000 being one of them (see this thread here).

While it's not the smallest form factor, it did fit my application, size and price wise. After having it for the past 2 ½ months, I am pleased with its performance musically and with movies. I'm certain you can get a better sub in a similar or even smaller enclosure, but as far as 'price for performance' is concerned, I think you'd have a tough time beating this sub for the under $200 shipped range.... -TD

 

[Brian_the_King]

Ty everyone for the input;

Tom, since you own the subwoofer, could you perhaps tell of any highs and lows you've had with the sub? Or at least your favorite and least favorite parts about it?

As for cables, I'm not really concerned about that yet. I still haven't ordered a new sub yet ;p

 

[tomd51]

Honestly, I haven't had much negative experience (if any) to this point. I typically don't run this setup close to reference level, being my secondary system, but the Athena's been able to handle everything I've thrown at it so far. My room is approximately 18x14x8 with a few door openings, but almost a perfect rectangle.

After my initial setup and calibration, I ran it through some music listening tests first. My test material was all with CDs as I'll be playing little hi-rez material in this system:

Steely Dan - Citizen Steely Dan Box Set: Aja, Green Earrings, Your Gold Teeth II, Sign In Stranger and Home At Last
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Blood, Sugar, Sex, Magik: Mellowship Slinky In B Major
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication: I Like Dirt
Jeff Beck - Blow By Blow: Scatterbrain, Freeway Jam
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II: The Lemon Song
Blue Man Group - The Complex: Above

As you can see from some of the songs in my list, I'm a bit of a percussion hound... My thought process was if the Athena could hold it's own fairly articulately with this playlist, it's doing alright. One nice thing I felt about its performance with some of these songs was the separation of the bass pedal and larger toms along with the bass guitar, they all seemed to be clearly distinguishable and there wasn't any 'flabby' type of response when handling the deeper bass (~30-40Hz) and higher end bass (~60-80Hz) simultaneously. As this will be used more for music and light theater use, I felt this sub performed quite well at this price point.

Just to hear how it did with soundtracks on the home theater front, I ran it through some paces with Master and Commander, The Incredibles, X2: X-Men United and The Haunting. Results were very similar to the findings with the music playlist. Good, tight punch when called upon by the source, good integration with the mains, pretty darn deep for a 10" sub in an enclosure this size w/a fairly modest amplifier. In fact, I'm hardly running the gain past twelve-o'clock on the sub itself. Close to reference level, this sub delivers a lot of kick. I wouldn't put it in the same class as an entry level SVS or mid-level HSU for tactile response (e.g., chest thump), but for money, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any new or even possibly used sub for less than $250 delivered that will give you the same performance. The Onix x-sub may be able to keep up and possibly best it in the music department, but for movie soundtracks, I think the Onix may fall a bit short of the Athena.

Honestly, the only negative I can see in this sub is the fairly bland appearance and sizable cabinet.

Sorry I'm not able to elaborate further on this, but unfortunately, this damn work thing keeps interrupting me.

Any other questions, BK, let me know... -TD

ps
AudioAdvisor has a demo available for $127.45. Grab it quick b/f someone else does...

 

[Brian_the_King]

Thanks Tom, I really appreciate it. You have removed all doubt from my mind; the Athena seems to be almost exactly what I'm looking for. And thanks for the heads up from audio advisor. Hopefully I can order it later today.

 

[tomd51]

You're quite welcome, Brian. I hope you're as satisfied w/the AS-P4000 as I've been over the past couple of months.

Once you've got it in, calibrated it w/the rest of your system and given it a good test run of your own, let us know your thoughts on your purchase as other prospective buyers in this price range can benefit from the knowlege as well.

Oh, one more thing, have fun with it! -TD