Should I get an amp or new receiver?

[edwelly]

Hello all - HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
You guys have been helping me with some upgrade woes and it seems that my Sony receiver might be the weakest link - so if I were to look into getting a new amp would a Rotel RB-976AX six channel amplifier, 6x60 - model work? I have a friend who has a used one for sell that I may be able to get for around $300 - $350. I could also bridge the front 3 channels for 150w x 3 and use the Sony for the rears - maybe??? Review = http://www.avrev.com/equip/rotelrb976/
- or - should I just look into getting a new reciever - if so, what for aound $500 might be better???
Thanks!!!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hello all - HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
You guys have been helping me with some upgrade woes and it seems that my Sony receiver might be the weakest link - so if I were to look into getting a new amp would a Rotel RB-976AX six channel amplifier, 6x60 - model work? I have a friend who has a used one for sell that I may be able to get for around $300 - $350. I could also bridge the front 3 channels for 150w x 3 and use the Sony for the rears - maybe??? Review = http://www.avrev.com/equip/rotelrb976/
- or - should I just look into getting a new reciever - if so, what for aound $500 might be better???
Thanks!!!

What are the symptoms that you would think your Sony at fault?

Upgrading to a 60 watt/ch amp is not really an upgrade.

 

[PENG]

What are the symptoms that you would think your Sony at fault?

Upgrading to a 60 watt/ch amp is not really an upgrade.

It probably is an upgrade if the Sony is a STR-DEXXX model. It may not be an upgrade if his Sony is one of those 40+ lbs ES model. $300 for a 6X60 Rotel is not a bad price if it is in good condition.

 

[mtrycrafts]

It probably is an upgrade if the Sony is a STR-DEXXX model. It may not be an upgrade if his Sony is one of those 40+ lbs ES model. $300 for a 6X60 Rotel is not a bad price if it is in good condition.

Well, I guess if that Sony is a non starter, then even 60 watts may be an upgrade. Perhaps we'll learn what he has in the next post?

 

[edwelly]

Good morning - this question is in reference to http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16247 - I felt this question should probably be asked in the AMP section.
Anyway, I thought I was having a speaker issue as I could hear the spekers starting to strain somewhat but it I was told it sounds more like the limitation of my Sony receiver than the speakers.

Upgrading to a 60 watt/ch amp is not really an upgrade.

Iw as thinking about running the front 3 channels with the amp bridged giving me 150 a channel but I am not sure if this would help...

It may not be an upgrade if his Sony is one of those 40+ lbs ES model.

Yep, it's over 45lbs and that is one thing that surprised me when I was told it sounds like the receiver is the issue. I felt that the amp still had room to go but I am probably wrong on this... I really like the receiver as it has a lot of features on it (like the bass mang. section) that I use. The receiver "seems" to be built well, but it may be the weakest link in the chain.

 

[Sheep]

Good morning - this question is in reference to http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16247 - I felt this question should probably be asked in the AMP section.
Anyway, I thought I was having a speaker issue as I could hear the spekers starting to strain somewhat but it I was told it sounds more like the limitation of my Sony receiver than the speakers.

Iw as thinking about running the front 3 channels with the amp bridged giving me 150 a channel but I am not sure if this would help...

Yep, it's over 45lbs and that is one thing that surprised me when I was told it sounds like the receiver is the issue. I felt that the amp still had room to go but I am probably wrong on this... I really like the receiver as it has a lot of features on it (like the bass mang. section) that I use. The receiver "seems" to be built well, but it may be the weakest link in the chain.

Using the amp on the front 3 channels (5.1 or 6.1 or 7.1 setup?) is a good idea. I assume it can do 150 a channel, and if it can, its more then your receiver, or any receiver will dish out(respectively).

Your fronts have a 90dB sensitivity rating (Anechoic) and up to 180 watts (spec). 150 into atleast those will help the sound alot. Having that extra 150 for the center is also good (headroom).

I personally say, go for it. Mmmmm brakets

SheepStar

 

[edwelly]

Using the amp on the front 3 channels (5.1 or 6.1 or 7.1 setup?) is a good idea. I assume it can do 150 a channel, and if it can, its more then your receiver, or any receiver will dish out(respectively).
SheepStar

That's what I was thinking as well... Still not sure if I want to invest any more $ in it right now. May be I should just save up and get an Outlaw 1070 or 7125

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yep, it's over 45lbs and that is one thing that surprised me when I was told it sounds like the receiver is the issue. I felt that the amp still had room to go but I am probably wrong on this... I really like the receiver as it has a lot of features on it (like the bass mang. section) that I use. The receiver "seems" to be built well, but it may be the weakest link in the chain.

OK. Let's take a step back for a minute. How much power does that Sony have?
What is it that you are experiencing? How loud are you playing the system? Is it properly level matched in all channels with spl meter and test DVD?
How is the room acoustics?
Maybe it is NOT your Sony that is causing your frustrations?

 

[edwelly]

OK. Let's take a step back for a minute. How much power does that Sony have?
What is it that you are experiencing? How loud are you playing the system? Is it properly level matched in all channels with spl meter and test DVD?
How is the room acoustics?
Maybe it is NOT your Sony that is causing your frustrations?

1. Sony is rated at 110W x 7 @8 ohms 20-20kHZ - 0.05% THD
Here is a link - http://esupport.sony.com/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=STRDA4ES
2. when I was playing around the other day, setting system levels, I could hear the speakers straining some when I would really crank it up. My system has been set using a SPL meter and the Avia disc. The fronts & center are set at the same level, the rears at 1.5 dbs lower and the sub is 4 db higher that the fronts & center.
I have hard wood floors but I have a HUGE couch with pillows on it. Can give further details and or pictures if needed.
My volume is goes from 100 to 0 with 0 being the loudest. I was listening to -30 in 2CH music when I started to notice the speakers almost crapping out. The highs were starting to sound a little scratchy and almost like some distortion.
Please let me know any other information you need as I REALLY APPRECIATE THE HELP ON THIS...

 

[Nick250]

Could the media be part of issue? Take two concert DVDs that I listen too, Eagles Hell Freezes Over and Billy Joel at Yankee Stadium. I can crank the BillyJoel DVD and it always sound like crap. There is simply no dynamic range on this DVD. OTOH I can crank HFO as high as I can stand and the sound remains breath taking. Hugh dynamic range.

FWIW the system I am using is an Onkyo 595 (four year old low/mid range reciever), three Paradigm Studio 20s up front, two Paradigm Mini Monitors as surrounds and a HSU VTF2.

 

[edwelly]

Maybe it is the media. I will check some more music this weekend. I hope you are right

 

[mtrycrafts]

Maybe it is the media. I will check some more music this weekend. I hope you are right

With the power rating and the robust weight you mentioned, I seriously doubt that downgrading to those 60 watt amps will help you, or upgrading to 200 watts, for that matter.
You should really try to level the surrounds to the same level as the fronts. That is how movies are mastered and I am sure music as well.

As was mentioned, you do need to experiment with other recordings as some are even clipped and distorted on the discs already. You may want to try some classical music as they are less compressed. WmAx should help you out on this as he has measured and looked at the signal levels on discs, at least on some.

 

[PENG]

Iw as thinking about running the front 3 channels with the amp bridged giving me 150 a channel but I am not sure if this would help...

Yep, it's over 45lbs and that is one thing that surprised me when I was told it sounds like the receiver is the issue. I felt that the amp still had room to go but I am probably wrong on this... I really like the receiver as it has a lot of features on it (like the bass mang. section) that I use. The receiver "seems" to be built well, but it may be the weakest link in the chain.

If you are going to bridge it to 150W, you may be getting something, but double check the distortion numbers in the bridged mode.

I had that Bando transformer of the 4ES in my hand a couple of times. That thing was huge and heavy, it was hard to pick it up with one hand. Don't go by the power consumption number. In the case of the 4ES, the manual tells you it is 390 VA but the P/S is way bigger than those Pioneer and HK models that specifies power consumption of 600 + VA. I am not sure if there is a standard that manufacturers have to adhere to. I really doubt the 60WX6 Rotel will make much, if any difference. The 4ES does not have all the high quality components that the 5 and 7ES have but it is more than decent. Something else may be bugging your system.

 

[PENG]

I just read your other posts. People who frequent this forum don't know much about the Sony STR-DA3/4/5/7ES receivers. So naturally they would cite cases when Sony specified their output rating at 1 KHz at some high distortion level. Facts are those ES receivers are quite decent. There are a couple of reviews done a couple of years ago by Audioholics on the Sony 4ES and 5ES. You should read them before you take it for granted that it is the weak link in your system.

That said, you mentioned you had the 4ES at -30. Let's say you play one of those LOTR DVD at -30, that would be like playing the same movie at around -5 with a Denon, HK, or Yamaha receiver. They are not calibrated the same way. At 90 dB anechoic sensitivity, with the Sony cranked up to -30, I would not want to be in that room unless it is a very big room. Even so, I would not expect the 4ES to clip at that level. It is possible that the monitor 7 are the culprit, or your 4ES is defective.