Shopping Local Audio Gear is Getting More and More Challenging

[Bobby Bass]

I bought them back in 2007 when CSW had stores at the mall. Got a 7 channel HT system package. Remember going to the mall to shop! The amp in one started giving Me problems a few years ago so I did get over 10 years of excellent use. Just hoping I can get it working again so I can either use elsewhere or sell. If not I’ll be the guy on eBay selling one fully functional tower, one that works but with the bass amp needing repair and the matching center channel.

 

[MrBoat]

I bought them back in 2007 when CSW had stores at the mall. Got a 7 channel HT system package. Remember going to the mall to shop! The amp in one started giving Me problems a few years ago so I did get over 10 years of excellent use. Just hoping I can get it working again so I can either use elsewhere or sell. If not I’ll be the guy on eBay selling one fully functional tower, one that works but with the bass amp needing repair and the matching center channel.

For the last 25 years or so, the only reason I ever got near a mall was because Sears was at one end of it. Everything else at the mall was nearly twice as expensive as anywhere else. Haven't been to a Walmart since around 2013 or so, either.

So for me, it isn't just about audio stores, but just about any outlet that follows that sort of everything under one roof business model, which is what mainstream audio stores became as well. I have been to Best Buy one time, and that was enough for me. Retail stores now, all look like a section of a walmart to me, or is where their staff must get their training.

I have been fortunate to have earned a minor degree in electronics early in life, and while I have forgotten most of it over 40 years on, I learned enough to keep my electronics going longer than they should have, and to be able to call "BS" when some sales shark tried pushing some snake oil crap on me.

Audioholics is about the only audio website I visit anymore. The info here helps me to avoid retail outlets even more. If AH had a store, I would probably go to it, though.

 

[Mikado463]

For the last 25 years or so, the only reason I ever got near a mall was because Sears was at one end of it.

agreed, it was always a challenge to spend time in the hardware / tool section and not make a purchase !

Haven't been to a Walmart since around 2013 or so, either.
Retail stores now, all look like a section of a walmart to me

So if you haven't been to Walmart in 10 years how do you know what they all look like ?

Just bustin your stones a wee bit, but I get your point. Besides Walmart people can be scary........

 

[MrBoat]

agreed, it was always a challenge to spend time in the hardware / tool section and not make a purchase !



So if you haven't been to Walmart in 10 years how do you know what they all look like ?

Just bustin your stones a wee bit, but I get your point. Besides Walmart people can be scary........

lol. . .because there are plenty of "People of Walmart" videos online! They will never change it!

 

[Eppie]

Yup. When I was at Natural Sound today the guys there confirmed that there was one just up the road from them in Framingham. There were a bunch around MA and NE. One of the guys worked there for a while. They went out of business. I got the sense that the bosses were not well liked.

They also told me that there is a repair shop in Hanson, MA in southeast MA operating under the name Tech Hi Fi. Totally different company. I googled it up and it looks like they've expanded into a fully equipment retail store and also has a Strawberries inside, and still repair vintage equipment. Google Map tells me it's a 40 minute drive. I called them. The repair guy is on vacation. But I wonder if it's worth getting that Carver M400 amp fixed. My guess is no but doesn't hurt to ask.

Tech Hifi - Stereo Repair, Vintage Turntable, Vintage Speakers

Retail vintage audio store specializing in stereo repair and restoration of turntables, speakers, amplifiers, cassette and reel to reel decks.

www.techhifi.com

If you're thinking about resale value, I don't see many references on HiFiShark.
https://www.hifishark.com/model/carver-m-400
One U.S. listing on USAudiomart last December for $300 but not marked sold. Also a listing on Ebay for $400.

 

[highfigh]

For the last 25 years or so, the only reason I ever got near a mall was because Sears was at one end of it. Everything else at the mall was nearly twice as expensive as anywhere else. Haven't been to a Walmart since around 2013 or so, either.

So for me, it isn't just about audio stores, but just about any outlet that follows that sort of everything under one roof business model, which is what mainstream audio stores became as well. I have been to Best Buy one time, and that was enough for me. Retail stores now, all look like a section of a walmart to me, or is where their staff must get their training.

I have been fortunate to have earned a minor degree in electronics early in life, and while I have forgotten most of it over 40 years on, I learned enough to keep my electronics going longer than they should have, and to be able to call "BS" when some sales shark tried pushing some snake oil crap on me.

Audioholics is about the only audio website I visit anymore. The info here helps me to avoid retail outlets even more. If AH had a store, I would probably go to it, though.

25 years ago is about the time when it became almost impossible for a small independent audio dealer to survive without adding video and AV was still pretty primitive, compared with now. Audio guys didn't really care about video, Playback, Pacific Stereo, Schaak Electronics and several other national chains had already closed and Best Buy, Circuit City and a few regional big box stores were becoming the main players because they had much better buying power. Competing against them as a small independent required a lot of planning, joining a buying group and a loyal customer base who resisted going to the big box stores until price really became the main motivating factor in where they bought.

In the late-'70s and into the '80s, selling audio was kind of a fun way for someone to support themselves but that changed. For the ones who accepted the "sell everything in sight and don't bother with your principals" model, lots of money was and still can be made by the sales staff- that includes selling snake oil cables, lots of them.

 

[highfigh]

lol. . .because there are plenty of "People of Walmart" videos online! They will never change it!

Are you referring to people who work there, or the WalMartians?

 

[MrBoat]

25 years ago is about the time when it became almost impossible for a small independent audio dealer to survive without adding video and AV was still pretty primitive, compared with now. Audio guys didn't really care about video, Playback, Pacific Stereo, Schaak Electronics and several other national chains had already closed and Best Buy, Circuit City and a few regional big box stores were becoming the main players because they had much better buying power. Competing against them as a small independent required a lot of planning, joining a buying group and a loyal customer base who resisted going to the big box stores until price really became the main motivating factor in where they bought.

In the late-'70s and into the '80s, selling audio was kind of a fun way for someone to support themselves but that changed. For the ones who accepted the "sell everything in sight and don't bother with your principals" model, lots of money was and still can be made by the sales staff- that includes selling snake oil cables, lots of them.

I really started losing interest in retail electronics when televisions and audio started to become disposable. Where it became cheaper to replace, than repair. Half of why I doubled down on repairing my legacy gear, that was designed to be serviceable, just by the layout of the circuit boards and what each represented in the system. So much easier to isolate and troubleshoot than the mysteries that most circuits are these days. Audio outlets became nothing more than a go-between at best, between consumer and manufacturer, that could handle the shipping for warranty returns, and not much else. And God help you if you were not their priority, because it was going to be awhile.

It just became chintzy feeling all the way around. Still is, to me. Especially for the asking prices on some of this stuff.

 

[Bobby Bass]

The prices are too high for a lot of equipment. It’s not a poor man’s hobby unless you’re a DIY guy. Most of the stuff i read about I could never afford Or I can’t justify spending the money. Still love to stop by a store and look and listen when I have the time. That’s one of the reasons I appreciate finding out about a couple of independent dealers I can check out.

 

[highfigh]

I really started losing interest in retail electronics when televisions and audio started to become disposable. Where it became cheaper to replace, than repair. Half of why I doubled down on repairing my legacy gear, that was designed to be serviceable, just by the layout of the circuit boards and what each represented in the system. So much easier to isolate and troubleshoot than the mysteries that most circuits are these days. Audio outlets became nothing more than a go-between at best, between consumer and manufacturer, that could handle the shipping for warranty returns, and not much else. And God help you if you were not their priority, because it was going to be awhile.

It just became chintzy feeling all the way around. Still is, to me. Especially for the asking prices on some of this stuff.

One of the reasons for the disposability is due to the fact that fewer service techs were available, so the manufacturers decreased their in-person training and when CD-Roms became able to store enough info, paper service manuals bit the dust. Eventually, service training and manuals went online. They decided that they weren't in the parts business and would rather replace modules before the Chinese became the main source and the prices dropped like a rock. Sure, some TVs are still expensive, but it's possible to buy a decent 50" TV for three hundred bucks.

When online prices are so much lower than what a dealer pays from the manufacturer and certainly from distributors, something has to give- local dealers aren't charitable organizations and they can't lose money if they and their customers want them to stay open. It'seven worse when manufacturers begin to sell direct to the public and their online prices are lower than dealer cost. That's total BS and they do lose dealers because of it. This also leads to distributors of AV/network/security/parts shutting down and in the MKE area, two companies with multiple locations closed this year- one still has their original location and the other, which had at least seven, has closed completely.

Losing customers to online sellers is a real slap in the face. We, as dealers, are expected to be loyal to them, but a soon as the price drops, they're gone.

Priority? What's that? It's "What have you done for me, lately?".

 

[MrBoat]

One of the reasons for the disposability is due to the fact that fewer service techs were available, so the manufacturers decreased their in-person training and when CD-Roms became able to store enough info, paper service manuals bit the dust. Eventually, service training and manuals went online. They decided that they weren't in the parts business and would rather replace modules before the Chinese became the main source and the prices dropped like a rock. Sure, some TVs are still expensive, but it's possible to buy a decent 50" TV for three hundred bucks.

When online prices are so much lower than what a dealer pays from the manufacturer and certainly from distributors, something has to give- local dealers aren't charitable organizations and they can't lose money if they and their customers want them to stay open. It'seven worse when manufacturers begin to sell direct to the public and their online prices are lower than dealer cost. That's total BS and they do lose dealers because of it. This also leads to distributors of AV/network/security/parts shutting down and in the MKE area, two companies with multiple locations closed this year- one still has their original location and the other, which had at least seven, has closed completely.

Losing customers to online sellers is a real slap in the face. We, as dealers, are expected to be loyal to them, but a soon as the price drops, they're gone.

Priority? What's that? It's "What have you done for me, lately?".

"Priority," as in, to those that manufacturers claimed how great their product is and how great the warranties are in the first place, in spite of all the fine print and lawyer speak. Where the actual warranty process is made so inconvenient and loopholed, that they actually bet on a great percentage of customers not following thru with claims.

At some point, a service economy that creates less value than it consumes, is bound to eat itself out of house and home. It astonishes me just how handsomely someone feels their service is worth, compared to what value they actually create. It's all just turned into one huge sucking sound from every direction. I still work in manufacturing. I simply cannot and will not afford what amounts to a glut of parasitic middle people that offer nothing in return beyond a perceived sense of convenience, or paying for someone's allergies to actual hands-on work.

I went to buy a new Toyota once. They sent out some chesty 30-something bitch in a midriff shirt with tattoos, figuring I fit the profile of some mid-life crisis dude that would have been swayed by that. She tried my patience from the first minute figuring from my welding garb (I went by appointment on lunch break) that I was some uneducated, blue collar grunt. When I asked her to turn off her own, not-so-clever scripted spiel, she rolled her eyes and said and looking at my truck: "I bet you keep all of your cars forever." I replied that I keep them as long as I was promised they would last. At the time I had an '87 Toyota SR5 4x4 pickup, that I still really loved and had no intention of trading in. It's just that it had 300k miles on it and I didn't want to beat it to death for work anymore but just use it for off-road use and towing my boat. After getting the run around for an hr, that they could not find the actual truck they had advertised to me, but instead tried to push off some base model BS on me that they had obviously ordered too many of, I walked off and vowed to never step foot in another auto dealership again.

 

[highfigh]

"Priority," as in, to those that manufacturers claimed how great their product is and how great the warranties are in the first place, in spite of all the fine print and lawyer speak. Where the actual warranty process is made so inconvenient and loopholed, that they actually bet on a great percentage of customers not following thru with claims.

At some point, a service economy that creates less value than it consumes, is bound to eat itself out of house and home. It astonishes me just how handsomely someone feels their service is worth, compared to what value they actually create. It's all just turned into one huge sucking sound from every direction. I still work in manufacturing. I simply cannot and will not afford what amounts to a glut of parasitic middle people that offer nothing in return beyond a perceived sense of convenience, or paying for someone's allergies to actual hands-on work.

I went to buy a new Toyota once. They sent out some chesty 30-something bitch in a midriff shirt with tattoos, figuring I fit the profile of some mid-life crisis dude that would have been swayed by that. She tried my patience from the first minute figuring from my welding garb (I went by appointment on lunch break) that I was some uneducated, blue collar grunt. When I asked her to turn off her own, not-so-clever scripted spiel, she rolled her eyes and said and looking at my truck: "I bet you keep all of your cars forever." I replied that I keep them as long as I was promised they would last. At the time I had an '87 Toyota SR5 4x4 pickup, that I still really loved and had no intention of trading in. It's just that it had 300k miles on it and I didn't want to beat it to death for work anymore but just use it for off-road use and towing my boat. After getting the run around for an hr, that they could not find the actual truck they had advertised to me, but instead tried to push off some base model BS on me that they had obviously ordered too many of, I walked off and vowed to never step foot in another auto dealership again.

From a legal standpoint, warranties can be enforced, even if a manufacturer doesn't want to. This has been tried in court for a long time and it's a matter of finding a lawyer who's familiar with getting results. In MKE, an attorney made a name for himself as 'The Lemon Law Lawyer", partly for winning $880K for a client against Mercedes. Obviously, suing an electronics manufacturer won't yield the same results, but even going to the state's Consumer Protection agency can get results. Part of how someone can get a repair covered has to do with how they talk to the people who can get it done, or deny it. If more of them were like the woman at Sony in the mid-'80s, it would be easy but from knowing how others at the place where I worked treated her, if she didn't like the way they tried to push her, she would deny coverage. I, OTOH, got along with her just fine and she would even cover products that were out of warranty, but she had previously denied because the other guys treated her like crap.

It's very easy for a manufacturer to control middle people, especially middle management, because they need their jobs and the middle managers are very expendable. They might do things for a customer if the right names are dropped, though. I used this when Spectrum was screwing the pooch, kicking it afterward and leaving it in the country. After dropping the CEO's name, I think heard a puckering sound from the other end of the line. He immediately reacted, got someone on the line who could explain the problem and how to resolve it, complete with what sounded like a desperate apology. It got the results I needed but unfortunately, the subsequent BS didn't end and I had to drop the name again. It worked every time but when I did this a few weeks ago with someone from ATT, she didn't care.

While I'm no fan of car dealers, I don't know that ALL dealers need to be lumped into the same category as that Toyota place. She sounds like a real piece of work but they play games all the time- if you know anyone who's a sales manager at a car dealership, get them to tell you how to combat this crap. I think I posted about a customer from the first boat dealership I worked for- he stopped by to check in on his boat, wearing ink-stained coveralls after doing some maintenance at his print shop. He had gone to a BMW dealer on the way to our store and told us about how they wouldn't talk to him, had someone shadow every movement and didn't even bother to find out if he was serious. He was- he went to another BMW dealership closer to his house and bought one for himself & one for his wife while wearing the same clothes, because they didn't care how he was dressed.