Setup for Realistically Music Only

[wRx]

Ok, I am looking at home audio stuff, but really, I only listen to music. I watch movies, but I dont have a big TV, and I'm not really into SpecialFx movies anyways. Bottomline, I dont really care about lots of noise watching a movie.

So, Layout: Apartment living room, pretty big. No tape measure, but I'd say about 12-15x16-18.

Price Range: About $1500

What I was thinking about: Athena As-f2 or similar. Midrange Reciever, center, a sub and some rears. Or, better Floors and Better Reciever and thats it.

With just music, should I just go all out on the Floors and Reciever? Or Would it be worth it to have 5.1? Is a center a good idea?Need alittle advice.

 

[markw]

That's a pretty tough call.

Basically, it seems the choice is betweeb two or 5 speakers and thatcan have a critical impace on the decision, for obvious reasons.

That said, I'll say that I put music first. Always have... always will.

I have a pretty satisfying 2 channel system, but it takes up a LOT of room, what with planar speakers and placment and all that.

When I went for a HT system for a smaller room, music was STILL my main concern. Why? Any system that sounds good on music will sound good on HT. The opposite is not always true. I wish I had a dime for every post that started "it sounds great on HT but not so good on music".

When shopping, bring your music. Once a system passes that test, youi're 90% of the way there.

Now, after listeninf to the local name brands I took a chance on a pair of new speakers that AudioAdvisor was just offering. Since they have a great retuen policy, I figures what could I lose? I got 'em and used 'em for a week and then started to "borrow"* the local name brands and this AA speaker was (IMNSHO) the better of al the other comprable priced/sized speakers that was available locally.

That was over two years ago. I still love 'em and don't regret for one moment my decision.

I then went back and ordered the matching center and the larger of the matching bookshelves for the rear surrounds.

Those speakers were the Athena Audition AS-Fi followed by the center and a pair of B2's for the surrounds. Receiver is a Denon 2802 and the DVD is a low priced Toshiba. I am using a sub but, for music, it's rarely used and the F2's you are looking at have another woofer so I doubt bass will me an issue for you and, in any case, you can add a sub at any time should you choose.

 

[wRx]

Thanks. Thats really what I was needing to hear. Guess I will go with a good set of towers and a nice reciever for now. And eventually I can add the center/rear/sub if I deem necessary.

 

[markw]

That's kinda where I was headed

Just because you have the potential to use 5 channels you don't necessarially have to. I rarely use more than the plain old stereo mode for music.

But, who knows? Some prefer the added, errr..., ambiance that some DSP modes add to two channel sound. Personally, I'm not among them but YMMV.

 

[MaestroHC]

I'm another"musica realum" person

I'm with you, Mark. As a professional musician/conductor the musicians I conduct are in front of me with the sound coming from that direction. When I sit in the audience at a symphonic, choral, or band concert, the music comes from the front. There is a place for "surround sound" and that is in DVD's, home video's, etc where they have been produced in such a way that surround is a positive enhancement to "feel part of the action" of the movie.
Otherwise, 99% of the time my classical and jazz recordings are in 2-channel mode. Bottom line is, though, if you like the "surround" modes use them. The important thing is that you support the musicians and the musical arts and, even more importantly, that you make music an important part of your life. Best wishes.
MaestroHC

 

[JoeE SP9]

Get the fronts working right first. I've been trying to use surround sound for music since the days of SQ (QS)matrix and the Hafler Quadaptor. I have tried lots of things but have always been kind of underwhelmed. For music I rarely use anything but plain old 2 channel stereo. Now, movies and source material specifically mixed for surround then, of course crank up all four or five plus .1 . Light the fires and smoke the tires.

 

[wRx]

Thanks Guys

Just what I needed to know.

I have another question though. Since I am willing to spend up to 1500, what speaker reciever combo would be best? Once again, only for music. Home theater might eventually be about 5% of usage Everyone seems to rave about the athena's, but is something alittle step ahead that would still fit in with the <1500 budget? What about the reciever?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm with you, Mark. As a professional musician/conductor the musicians I conduct are in front of me with the sound coming from that direction. When I sit in the audience at a symphonic, choral, or band concert, the music comes from the front. There is a place for "surround sound" and that is in DVD's, home video's, etc where they have been produced in such a way that surround is a positive enhancement to "feel part of the action" of the movie.
Otherwise, 99% of the time my classical and jazz recordings are in 2-channel mode. Bottom line is, though, if you like the "surround" modes use them. The important thing is that you support the musicians and the musical arts and, even more importantly, that you make music an important part of your life. Best wishes.
MaestroHC

Yes, in both cases the direct sound is in front of you. However, you also get indirect sound listening to your orchestra. This is what surround sound does in the home, it increases the hall effect.
I bet if you set up your orchestra outdoors, no walls, and stand in front as you normally do, your perception would be greatly different how it sounds than inside a concert room. You could also use just one instrument to experiment with to see the difference.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Get the fronts working right first. I've been trying to use surround sound for music since the days of SQ (QS)matrix and the Hafler Quadaptor. I have tried lots of things but have always been kind of underwhelmed. For music I rarely use anything but plain old 2 channel stereo. Now, movies and source material specifically mixed for surround then, of course crank up all four or five plus .1 . Light the fires and smoke the tires.

The old SQ surround is nowhere equivalent to todays surround sound recording, music or otherwise.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ok, I am looking at home audio stuff, but really, I only listen to music. I watch movies, but I dont have a big TV, and I'm not really into SpecialFx movies anyways. Bottomline, I dont really care about lots of noise watching a movie.

So, Layout: Apartment living room, pretty big. No tape measure, but I'd say about 12-15x16-18.

Price Range: About $1500

What I was thinking about: Athena As-f2 or similar. Midrange Reciever, center, a sub and some rears. Or, better Floors and Better Reciever and thats it.

With just music, should I just go all out on the Floors and Reciever? Or Would it be worth it to have 5.1? Is a center a good idea?Need alittle advice.

If you have the opportunity to visit an audio dealer that has surroundsound setup, you should take some of your music and experiment in stereo and DPLII or if there are multi channel mixes, use that and see which would appeal more to you. Even music in DD'DTS will do.
I prefer music in surround mode if I have a choice.

 

[JoeE SP9]

The old SQ surround is nowhere equivalent to todays surround sound recording, music or otherwise.

There was never any suggestion that SQ or QS was equal to DPLII or DD. I mentioned them because I wanted it known that I've been experimenting with surround sound for a long time. I still prefer 2 channels for music most of the time. It seems that a lot of people do .

 

[markw]

This is kind of a mixed bag here.

I prefer music in surround mode if I have a choice.

IMNSHO, this depends on how the music was recorded originally.

A two channel recording, recorded as such, I prefer in two channel mode. Any extraneous noises that are coaxed to the rears seem to be a little contrived. I tend to avoid DSP although I will admit to playing with DPLII or 5 channel stereo on occasion, although it's a short lived fling. I always return to my true love, two channels.

Now, most musical events aer situated such that the music arrives from the front. Little (not none) sounds comes from the side and rear save for ambiance, reverb and the occasional dolt with a cell phone. Should new mult channel recordings be made that attempt to capture the room, as it were, and attempt to immerse me in the original venues, then perhaps I'll change my tune.

Oh, they can leave out the cell phone.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

Some very knowledgeable people like the stable center image and wide "sweet spot" a center channel can add to even two-channel recordings with DPL II, even without rear ambiance speakers. Other equally astute persons, like Siegfried Linkwitz, say it doesn't really add that much. It might depend on one's individual taste and/or the dispersion characteristics of the speakers used.

I have yet to try it, being stuck in the '70s and 80's equipment-wise!

Rear ambiance also seems to be a matter of taste from comments I have read here and elsewhere. And I have read the intriguing suggestion (in a two-part article on multichannel that appeared in The Audio Critic some years back) that a highly diffuse wall behind the listener can pretty much do the same trick as actual rear speakers as far as ambiance goes! The Audio Critic is very sceptical, and tech and engineering oriented, so they are unlikely to publish something without good scientific backup.

One thing many authorities agree on is that there is little agreement or established "best practice" at this date for the recording and reproduction of music in surround. Basically, the cinema people have been doing most of the work, and movie sound ain't the same as music - especially "acoustic" music. You get a sense of that in the EMX Surround conference article posted on the Audioholics front page recently.

So no matter what the question is about music in surround, the answer seems to be a "definate maybe"!

Happy Labor Day weekend, all. Going to the Detroit Jazz festival tomorrow, and being Das Grillmeister for a family do here at stately Van Woofer Manor on Monday

 

[MaestroHC]

Believe me, where I am postioned, as conductor, I hear very little, if any, "indirect sound" from the sides, or back. I urge you to get on a condutor's poduim in a hall or auditorium, with a average size orchestra and listen from that position. You are just inside a u-shape with the instrumentalists. Also, outdoor concerts are like being inside a marshmellow. The sound pretty much dies after it is produced. Outdoor concerts, unless properly sound engineered is a nightmare for classical conductors and musicians. Best wishes.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Also, outdoor concerts are like being inside a marshmellow. The sound pretty much dies after it is produced. Outdoor concerts, unless properly sound engineered is a nightmare for classical conductors and musicians. Best wishes.

That is exactely what I was referring to. Outdoors you don't have the walls inderct ambiance and space, really direct sound only. Probably like in an anechoic chamber, no reflections.
I can only sit in the seats at a concert so you probably get all direct sound, very little indirect, but, then you should get the same sound outdoors in the conductors position. If not, then you indeed get enough reflections that you detect in the hall and are aware of.

If you want the feel of sound in the position of a conductor, then you certainly need surround sound that is recorded in such a manner. There are a few, not many; don't ask which ones though

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

I urge you to get on a condutor's poduim in a hall or auditorium, with a average size orchestra and listen from that position.

I'll be sure to try that at the next DSO concert: "Yo, Neeme, mind if I stand here right next to you for awhile and check out the sound? You'll hardly know I'm here, promise!"

Actually I used to be in the percussion section in my student days. Things sound real different from back there!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Actually I used to be in the percussion section in my student days. Things sound real different from back there!

But I wonder how that same position in the band would have sounded to you outdoors? I bet differently without the hall effects.