Selecting A Crossover Point

[Pogre]

So I'm just looking stuff up and stumbled across this page that does an excellent job of describing the hows and whys of selecting the "correct" crossover point for your system. A lot of the info matches up with what we generally recommend with a little extra explanation of why. They also explain how to choose the right low pass filter for your sub if running full range speakers. I've been flipping back and forth between settings and playing with the crossover/low pass while running my towers full range and 60 hz (one octave up from my towers' f3) does produce a nice result.

There's not a lot new there, but I think it does a great job explaining things to your average Joe wanting to learn about home theater and hifi audio.

 

[ryanosaur]

So I'm just looking stuff up and stumbled across this page that does an excellent job of describing the hows and whys of selecting the "correct" crossover point for your system. A lot of the info matches up with what we generally recommend with a little extra explanation of why. They also explain how to choose the right low pass filter for your sub if running full range speakers. I've been flipping back and forth between settings and playing with the crossover/low pass while running my towers full range and 60 hz (one octave up from my towers' f3) does produce a nice result.

There's not a lot new there, but I think it does a great job explaining things to your average Joe wanting to learn about home theater and hifi audio.

looks like a promising read: saved for later! Thanks

 

[snakeeyes]

So I'm just looking stuff up and stumbled across this page that does an excellent job of describing the hows and whys of selecting the "correct" crossover point for your system. A lot of the info matches up with what we generally recommend with a little extra explanation of why. They also explain how to choose the right low pass filter for your sub if running full range speakers. I've been flipping back and forth between settings and playing with the crossover/low pass while running my towers full range and 60 hz (one octave up from my towers' f3) does produce a nice result.

There's not a lot new there, but I think it does a great job explaining things to your average Joe wanting to learn about home theater and hifi audio.

I have always liked 90hz with one sub. At 100hz I can start to localize the sub. With dual subs you have the freedom to go a bit higher and experiment.

 

[Pogre]

I have always liked 90hz with one sub. At 100hz I can start to localize the sub. With dual subs you have the freedom to go a bit higher and experiment.

Or if you have them up front right by your mains. I've been running 120 hz for the longest time and haven't had to worry about localization. In that article he recommends some fairly high crossover points for speakers that dig down to 50 hz (100 Hz crossover). In those cases I've found 80 to be pretty good, but the logic behind why he recommends is solid and makes sense.

 

[Pogre]

For the record, how I found that page was me trying to remember the advice @TLS Guy had given me a while back to set a low pass 1 octave up from a speaker's f3 if I wanted to try them full range. The advice there lines right up with what the Doctor ordered.

 

[snakeeyes]

Or if you have them up front right by your mains. I've been running 120 hz for the longest time and haven't had to worry about localization. In that article he recommends some fairly high crossover points for speakers that dig down to 50 hz (100 Hz crossover). In those cases I've found 80 to be pretty good, but the logic behind why he recommends is solid and makes sense.

Right, but try 120hz with one sub. (Turn one off to see). You will notice the bass is easy to localize at 120 with one sub. I can also localize at 100hz but not 90hz.

 

[Pogre]

Right, but try 120hz with one sub. (Turn one off to see). You will notice the bass is easy to localize at 120 with one sub. I can also localize at 100hz but not 90hz.

Gotcha. With a single sub you can tell which side the bass is coming from at 100 Hz and up. Something I never really thought about because I've always run with 2 subs. Even the crappy ones, lol.

 

[snakeeyes]

Gotcha. With a single sub you can tell which side the bass is coming from at 100 Hz and up. Something I never really thought about because I've always run with 2 subs. Even the crappy ones, lol.

Ya I have dual subs in one room and it’s sweet. The other rooms have single subs.

 

[ryanosaur]

So... Subwoofers should only be sold as 2-packs?

Edit: And an upgrade option to add a 3rd.

 

[KEW]

Just read the first couple of pages and realized while it appears a great article, Bob did us no favors when he decided to use gray text on a beige background!
When I started I did not check how long the article was. It is a 12 page document in Word (which is where I cut 'n pasted it to to make it black text on white background ... like God intended us to read)!

 

[Pogre]

Just read the first couple of pages and realized while it appears a great article, Bob did us no favors when he decided to use gray text on a beige background!
When I started I did not check how long the article was. It is a 12 page document in Word (which is where I cut 'n pasted it to to make it black text on white background ... like God intended us to read)!

I can read it without any trouble on my tablet. I'm wondering if it's just your old tired-ass eyeballs...

 

[KEW]

I can read it without any trouble on my tablet. I'm wondering if it's just your old tired-ass eyeballs...

That is certainly part of it, but as someone who taught Human Factors, I can say it would be easier for anyone if there is a higher contrast between the text and the background.

 

[lovinthehd]

I seem to remember the author has some wacky audio beliefs from posting in another forum somewhere....I'd call the background pink or salmon but not beige....but the font should be in black to help reading it. Not very well thought out to start

 

[Diesel57]

So I'm just looking stuff up and stumbled across this page that does an excellent job of describing the hows and whys of selecting the "correct" crossover point for your system. A lot of the info matches up with what we generally recommend with a little extra explanation of why. They also explain how to choose the right low pass filter for your sub if running full range speakers. I've been flipping back and forth between settings and playing with the crossover/low pass while running my towers full range and 60 hz (one octave up from my towers' f3) does produce a nice result.

There's not a lot new there, but I think it does a great job explaining things to your average Joe wanting to learn about home theater and hifi audio.

Great article along with providing a reason and the benefits of having 2 subs...AGREED...it provided me with a greater understanding of having the crossover properly balanced.

 

[felipe]

That’s an interesting article...like Pogre stated, it hits on a lot of what is agreed upon when setting up the crossover for your system. With that said, I found that when i was calibrating my new ELACs, the guidelines outlined here as well as the article didn’t work for me ! It turns out that setting the xover to lower settings ( 50hz for the fronts and rears and 60hz for the center ) yielded the best results. Now i know that doing that goes against pretty much everything in that article and what is said on here ( please don’t hate ), but it seems to work in my setup.

 

[lovinthehd]

That’s an interesting article...like Pogre stated, it hits on a lot of what is agreed upon when setting up the crossover for your system. With that said, I found that when i was calibrating my new ELACs, the guidelines outlined here as well as the article didn’t work for me ! It turns out that setting the xover to lower settings ( 50hz for the fronts and rears and 60hz for the center ) yielded the best results. Now i know that doing that goes against pretty much everything in that article and what is said on here ( please don’t hate ), but it seems to work in my setup.

Curious, that an ears only calibration or your measurements confirmed the crossover points?

 

[snakeeyes]

That’s an interesting article...like Pogre stated, it hits on a lot of what is agreed upon when setting up the crossover for your system. With that said, I found that when i was calibrating my new ELACs, the guidelines outlined here as well as the article didn’t work for me ! It turns out that setting the xover to lower settings ( 50hz for the fronts and rears and 60hz for the center ) yielded the best results. Now i know that doing that goes against pretty much everything in that article and what is said on here ( please don’t hate ), but it seems to work in my setup.

Judging off the pics, I would try between 80 and 110. YMMV

 

[felipe]

Curious, that an ears only calibration or your measurements confirmed the crossover points?

What I did first was run the auto—cal on my onkyo , which set the xovers at 40hz for the fronts and rears ( which I wouldn’t use since that’s below the rated range of these speakers ), so I manually changed them to 80hz. Afterwards I did some listening with music, and found that the bass didn’t sound right ( unbalanced from upper to lower bass ). So I checked all the trim levels, and they checked out...so thats when I decided to mess with the xover settings again. After some time selecting other xover points while music listening, I found that using the 50hz xover for my fronts and rears yielded the best results. I did find that a 100hz xover sort of worked, but it created more nulls and peaks, hence why I went with the 50hz.
Like stated before, I know this doesn’t coincide with what is discussed here or in that article, but in my particular situation these settings work...I don’t listen at loud levels ( I live in a an apartment ), I stayed within the speakers rated frequency range and I’m pretty sure placement and living space’s acoustics are playing a role in this as well. So, to answer your Q lovinthehd, it was an auto-cal measurement first, then an ears only cal afterwards. I don’t have the REW, measuring mic or laptop at my disposal, but its easy to hear any bass irregularities in my apartment...IMO

 

[lovinthehd]

What I did first was run the auto—cal on my onkyo , which set the xovers at 40hz for the fronts and rears ( which I wouldn’t use since that’s below the rated range of these speakers ), so I manually changed them to 80hz. Afterwards I did some listening with music, and found that the bass didn’t sound right ( unbalanced from upper to lower bass ). So I checked all the trim levels, and they checked out...so thats when I decided to mess with the xover settings again. After some time selecting other xover points while music listening, I found that using the 50hz xover for my fronts and rears yielded the best results. I did find that a 100hz xover sort of worked, but it created more nulls and peaks, hence why I went with the 50hz.
Like stated before, I know this doesn’t coincide with what is discussed here or in that article, but in my particular situation these settings work...I don’t listen at loud levels ( I live in a an apartment ), I stayed within the speakers rated frequency range and I’m pretty sure placement and living space’s acoustics are playing a role in this as well. So, to answer your Q lovinthehd, it was an auto-cal measurement first, then an ears only cal afterwards. I don’t have the REW, measuring mic or laptop at my disposal, but its easy to hear any bass irregularities in my apartment...IMO

Maybe, ears aren't really all that good as measuring devices but partly it could be simply where you were listening from (i.e. how room modes affected your determination). Another thing you can experiment with other than xover is the delay adjustment for the sub (i.e. distance). Check out the mention in this article https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/subwoofer-integration