seeking advice on system assembly

[ImcLoud]

Awesome feedback,

so would the Klipsch bookshelf speakers consume even less power? I am not sure how to do the math on this and would appreciate a reference to an online calculator if one exists. The Klipsch RB-81s have a sensitivity of 97dB @ 2.83V / 1m...

Im not a klipsch fan , too forward for me, they are brite and I cant listen to them for long, never mind loud... I just spent 3 hours sitting in my "listening room" listening to dave mathews, tom petty, and John Meyer tracks on shuffle, while reading "who I am" PI know should have been listening to Petes music, but nope... But anyway my dac was at 58 which is about 90db at my listening area, and no fatigue, just smooth music, no harshness or fatigue causing brightness...

But some people like the Klipsch line {which I just found out is owned by Audiovox }, not that it matters, but what ev...

I like certain sounds, I want something mello, smooth, effortless, with no attitude of its own... And it seems like Klipsch and Evergy change the music a little, and not in a good way... Im not sure if that is the correct way to say it, maybe how they deliver it is different but what ever it is, I dont like it...

Post a list up here of what you are considering and people on here can give you their thoughts, thats the best place to start, if 5 people say I dont like this try this, there is a good speaker to audition...

 

[Steve81]

But some people like the Klipsch line {which I just found out is owned by Audiovox }, not that it matters, but what ev...

Out of curiosity, which Klipsch speakers have you listened to? They've produced quite a few models/lines over the decades, some of which have been junk, some decent, and some that are IMO quite rightly regarded as classics (namely the Klipschorns, Belles, and La Scalas).

Myself, I own and appreciate what Klipsch speakers can do; I wouldn't call myself a diehard fan, but I can easily live with their sound at the same time.

 

[ImcLoud]

Out of curiosity, which Klipsch speakers have you listened to? They've produced quite a few models/lines over the decades, some of which have been junk, some decent, and some that are IMO quite rightly regarded as classics (namely the Klipschorns, Belles, and La Scalas).

Myself, I own and appreciate what Klipsch speakers can do; I wouldn't call myself a diehard fan, but I can easily live with their sound at the same time.

I have heard la scalas {loud}, Heresy, and klipschorns they were nice, but big old looking and ugly, for sound they are decent. I have heard a lot all their current line... the more affordable stuff, the la scalas I seen were like $6000... I heard the entire reference line, not my cup of tea, and even the thx theater system {1 of my customers has this, he won at an art festival raffle!!!} wasnt impressive, especially for the price... I feel like they are overpriced and most of the line is Harsh and bright {not the heritage stuff, but pretty much everything else...}..

I dont mean any offence to any klipsch or energy owners out there, but they are my 2 least favorite brands, I feel like for the money they cost, you dont get a good product... I have listened to so many speakers lately and only a few stuck with me,

I like wharfedale, they have a very warm sound, even their lower Diamond line, are really nice sounding speakers, nothing that is going to jump off the shelf and change your life, but a realistic, warm, accurate sound...


Be back in a minute, think we just had an earhtquake

 

[Steve81]

Be back in a minute, think we just had an earhtquake

Never a dull moment, ehh?

FWIW, I'm not offended by your commentary; we all pick speakers we can live with; the tonal balance of the Klipsch Reference line speakers I own doesn't bother me (Audyssey has helped to tame them IMO), although they are far from being the most natural sounding speaker I own, let alone have ever heard. OTOH, their dynamic capabilities pay significant dividends IMO for HT. As far as value, I got them all used, so I can't complain

Regarding the Klipsch Heritage line versus the rest, you'll certainly find enough opinions on the Klipsch forums that are similar to your own, ie that anything that wasn't designed by Paul Klipsch (ie Heritage line, extended Heritage line) isn't "real Klipsch", etc, and the stuff that came after Paul sold the company was largely garbage. I'd like to get more time listening to the Heritage line; unfortunately there aren't any dealers anywhere close. It's on the to do list though. In the meantime, I guess I'll have to suffer and slum it

 

[ImcLoud]

OK, just 4.5 lol.. All the car alarms started going off at the same time, 1 picture fell, but it wasnt up that good to begin with...

Anyway wharfedale's sound grabs me, the entire group of them, they dont make a bad speaker, the jade line is sick honestly the only tower I think I would buy in the $3-4K range, and the Diamond 10's sound really good for the money...

B&W are nice but they dont give you anything extra, for $2K you get $2K speaker {that probably doesnt make sense}...

Definitive tech, I dont really like, for a little more money there is much nicer stuff

Martin Logan- they fill a niche, but I dont think I would buy them unless it was a super sale... The sound is good though

I can do this forever, I think I have listened to them all lol, Kefs PSP, SVS, HSU, I make a day out of driving to a high end audio store and twisting there volume knobs until someone comes over to help me...

The point is, I like almost every speaker I hear, but energy and klipsch I do not like... not a fan of the HSU bookshelfs either.. but I was told they have changed them and they are now magical and warm..

 

[Steve81]

Anyway wharfedale's sound grabs me, the entire group of them, they dont make a bad speaker, the jade line is sick honestly the only tower I think I would buy in the $3-4K range, and the Diamond 10's sound really good for the money...

I feel that way about the bookshelves in my bedroom (from an ID that didn't really get off the ground floor). They engage me in a way that few speakers really do. I've found that Salk and Philharmonic speakers are voiced similarly, and if/when my current bookshelves die, I know where I'll start my search for a replacement.

 

[baidarkabob]

Hi,

Where are you guys getting that 91db figure? I may have misled you earlier in the thread. The stats I am looking at are for the RB81 IIs. On the product website it says 97db sensitivity http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/mfg/3579/media_document/live_1/RB81IIcutsheet.pdf?1288063896.

Help me out with how to know what the real sensitivity is if the manufacturer is fudging. How do you know whether and how much a manufacturer is fudging? Word of mouth? If so, I am at your mercy here because I know nothing except I love music and I would like to find the best possible sound with the least power consumption within my budget.

From what I am learning from you folks, for my system, the speakers are really the main place for investing money. It does not appear that a suitable amp will break the bank. Right now I am hoping to find a good pair of speakers for 1500 or less. The RB 81 II are currently on sale for 325 a piece at Crutchfield, with free shipping to Alaska, which seems like a really good deal from my mostly naive perspective. My folks had some Klipsch speakers when I was a kid and they were awesome.

I am very grateful that you folks find this stuff interesting. I would have to go back to school to know what I am doing here. In fact, I am wondering if someone here could refer me to an educational website that explains the relationship between the sensitivity numbers, the impedance values and the power needs so that I might be a better researcher. For example, when comparing the Klipsch shelf speakers to the Tekton shelf speakers I see the Klipsch say 8 ohms of impedance and the Tektons say 4 ohms of impedance. What does that mean?

Thanks again.
b

 

[ImcLoud]

Hi,

Where are you guys getting that 91db figure? I may have misled you earlier in the thread. The stats I am looking at are for the RB81 IIs. On the product website it says 97db sensitivity http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/mfg/3579/media_document/live_1/RB81IIcutsheet.pdf?1288063896.

Help me out with how to know what the real sensitivity is if the manufacturer is fudging. How do you know whether and how much a manufacturer is fudging? Word of mouth? If so, I am at your mercy here because I know nothing except I love music and I would like to find the best possible sound with the least power consumption within my budget.

From what I am learning from you folks, for my system, the speakers are really the main place for investing money. It does not appear that a suitable amp will break the bank. Right now I am hoping to find a good pair of speakers for 1500 or less. The RB 81 II are currently on sale for 325 a piece at Crutchfield, with free shipping to Alaska, which seems like a really good deal from my mostly naive perspective. My folks had some Klipsch speakers when I was a kid and they were awesome.

I am very grateful that you folks find this stuff interesting. I would have to go back to school to know what I am doing here. In fact, I am wondering if someone here could refer me to an educational website that explains the relationship between the sensitivity numbers, the impedance values and the power needs so that I might be a better researcher. For example, when comparing the Klipsch shelf speakers to the Tekton shelf speakers I see the Klipsch say 8 ohms of impedance and the Tektons say 4 ohms of impedance. What does that mean?

Thanks again.
b

Do yourself a favor and go listen to them speaker before you buy, Klipsch and energy are one of the only speakers I would say YOU really should not buy with out hearing them {you should listen to them all before buying, but you know what I mean, I hope}

They are not the klpisch of yesteryear.... Believe me...

I vote for the Tektons... Affordable and efficient...

tekton-design2011

my father in law said they hit the lows like no other bookshelf he has tried...

I cant wait to hear them...

They will end up around the same price...

Keep in mind, you dont have to buy efficient speakers, you can simply buy a larger amplifier, but if it was me, I would be looking for something efficient to run on 12v. with the smallest a/b class car amp that will do the job...

I think the tekton bookshelfs with no sub and the Helix A/B amp will be a nice combo..

 

[Steve81]

Where are you guys getting that 91db figure? I may have misled you earlier in the thread. The stats I am looking at are for the RB81 IIs. On the product website it says 97db sensitivity

Third party measurements indicate the original RB-81 (also specced at 97dB sensitive) is really closer to 91dB anechoic. By Klipsch's reckoning, that would translate closer to 95dB in room.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-rb-81-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

Help me out with how to know what the real sensitivity is if the manufacturer is fudging.

Third party measurements are your best bet, although barring that, I think it'd be wise to be skeptical and assume the specified sensitivity is in room unless anechoic is outright stated.

When comparing the Klipsch shelf speakers to the Tekton shelf speakers I see the Klipsch say 8 ohms of impedance and the Tektons say 4 ohms of impedance. What does that mean?

First a couple formulas:

Power = Voltage * Current
Voltage = Current * Impedance

Now go back to the sensitivity spec: for 2.83V input, you get X output. Well 2.83V into an 8 ohm load means 0.35375 amperes of current, and 1 watt of power. Into a 4 ohm load, you're looking at 0.7075 amperes of current and 2 watts of current flow. So straight off the bat, a 4 ohm speaker will require twice the power as an equally sensitive 8 ohm speaker to reach a given SPL, all else being equal. What's also problematic is that for the same level of wattage, the 4 ohm speaker will still draw more current from an amplifier than an 8 ohm speaker, and this requires a bit meatier of an amplifier.

I know nothing except I love music and I would like to find the best possible sound with the least power consumption within my budget....My folks had some Klipsch speakers when I was a kid and they were awesome.

Klipsch has definitely produced some fantastic speakers in their history, and some very efficient ones as well. It could be worth pursuing some of their Heritage line as they are very sensitive by any standard; Heresies are the only ones that fit in your price range new and you will sacrifice a bit of low end there; given your location, used is obviously a problematic, but there is a significant market given that Klipsch has been producing these speakers since well before I was born, and you can find some interesting values there, ie Cornwalls for $500, La Scalas for under $1000, etc.

 

[zieglj01]

Hi,


I am very grateful that you folks find this stuff interesting. I would have to go back to school to know what I am doing here. In fact, I am wondering if someone here could refer me to an educational website that explains the relationship between the sensitivity numbers, the impedance values and the power needs so that I might be a better researcher. For example, when comparing the Klipsch shelf speakers to the Tekton shelf speakers I see the Klipsch say 8 ohms of impedance and the Tektons say 4 ohms of impedance. What does that mean?

Look for some different info here
All Articles — Loudspeaker Basics — Reviews and News from Audioholics

 

[baidarkabob]

What do you think of using a 5 channel car amp for this situation? I would use two channels for the big speakers, two channels for the outdoor speakers and have room for a sub if I thought I needed one someday. Would having an unused channel, say the sub channel, waste a bunch of energy or if it is an ABD class amp or would it just be switched off with no load? Like with this one...

Helix Blue B FIVE 5-channel car amplifier — 60 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms + 320 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms at Crutchfield.com

Is 60 watts per channel for the little outdoor speakers going to waste a bunch of energy? Speakers like these? http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Atrium-Speakers-White/dp/B00378KMEG/ref=pd_cp_e_3

 

[ImcLoud]

What do you think of using a 5 channel car amp for this situation? I would use two channels for the big speakers, two channels for the outdoor speakers and have room for a sub if I thought I needed one someday. Would having an unused channel, say the sub channel, waste a bunch of energy or if it is an ABD class amp or would it just be switched off with no load? Like with this one...

Helix Blue B FIVE 5-channel car amplifier — 60 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms + 320 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms at Crutchfield.com

Is 60 watts per channel for the little outdoor speakers going to waste a bunch of energy? Speakers like these? Amazon.com: Polk Audio Atrium 4 Speakers (Pair, White): Electronics

For the price of that amp you are better off getting 2 2 channels {then you can shut them off when not in use.., and then if you get a sub, get a mono amplifier {but most subs are powered}.. The problem would be trying to drive the amp with just 60w.... You will want a lot more than that for a sub...

 

[baidarkabob]

I decided to try the Tekton mini Lores with three configurations:

A - T Class scenario: topping TP60 - Topping TP60 Tripath TA2022 50WPC (80WPC 4 Ohm) Amplifier 310-326 and Dayton DTA 100 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-383&scqty=1

B - Car Stereo Scenario: Pioneer PRS 80 + Helix Blue 2 channel - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_13080PRS/Pioneer-DEH-80PRS.html and http://www.crutchfield.com/p_975BTWO/Helix-Blue-B-TWO.html

C - Home Stereo Scenario: Outlaw 2150 - http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

I will monitor power consumption (empirical) and performance (ear) and then go one way or another.

Thanks again for all of your feedback folks. I will report back if there is interest.

b

 

[Soundman]

I must admit, I don't have alot to add to this conversation. But.... that's a sweet lookin house!