ARES24

ARES24

Full Audioholic
Does anyone know of any projects using the Seas W?? EX drivers? I think they look so perty! ;)

Like the W18EX001.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
The Seas Thor and Odin kits use the W18E.... my eventual upgrade!
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
^ please provide more info and/or linky please!!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
^ please provide more info and/or linky please!!
It is my AVsudio monitor system of my design. Left and right are dual TL design and so are the rears. The center is a TL. The rear backs are dual TLs also, the surrounds are sealed.

It is all part of an advanced AV room.







The mains are driven by three Quad 909 amps, providing 750 watts to each speaker. No sub is required, but the LFE signal is captured via mixing buffer amps.

So that gives you a brief description.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Not trying to thread jack but those things are fascinating. Those dual opposed vents on top, appear to be connected to the dampening structures that angle off either side of MTM assembly. Do they help round out mid bass response from the W18's while also eliminating any other resonances that are trapped?

Over built is the first thing that comes to mind, which means you and I have something in common!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Not trying to thread jack but those things are fascinating. Those dual opposed vents on top, appear to be connected to the dampening structures that angle off either side of MTM assembly. Do they help round out mid bass response from the W18's while also eliminating any other resonances that are trapped?

Over built is the first thing that comes to mind, which means you and I have something in common!
They are two reverse tapered aperiodically damped transmission line speakers. They are damped to the point of just producing one peak of impedance. The pipes are tuned half and octave apart. As you can see from the frequency response the hand off between the two pipes is not perfect, but very good. Driver assist from the pipe loading is from 12 to 100 Hz. The drivers are tightly controlled by very uniform loading over at least two and a half octaves. The bass accuracy is astonishing. Roll off is second order in the bass. They are 2 to 3 db down at 20 Hz, 10 db down at 15 Hz and 15 db down at 10 Hz.

This form of loading has its origin in the Gedeckt organ pipe. Paul Voight first did this back in the thirties, but taper now is generally the reverse of his taper.

This is the smaller pipe.



This is the first part of the larger pipe.





It goes around the back of the shorter pipe.



Top view coming up to the undamped port area of the long pipe.



Side view.



An active solution allows the upper driver in the long pipe to carry the BSC for the smaller drivers in the shorter pipe.

Both drivers in the large pipe operate below 60 Hz and carry the LFE signal.

This is the center line.



It uses two coaxial drivers.



Again BSC is active through an electronic crossover. The upper tweeter is a fill tweeter for some cancellations in the 9 to 12 KHz region and flattens response to 20 KHz. A controlled cone of sound is projected over the listening area, and interference between mains and center in minimized. Blend between the three speakers is seamless.
 
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TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Wow! I see the reverse taper, but my knowledge is limited to understanding why increased dampening limits impedance? Anyway, fantastic work!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Wow! I see the reverse taper, but my knowledge is limited to understanding why increased dampening limits impedance? Anyway, fantastic work!
It all has to do with Q.

In an undamped pipe the impedance curve looks pretty much like a ported box, with the peaks of impedance either side of Fp. As you add damping one impedance peak will be suppressed. At the point where that peak is suppressed aperiodic damping in my view is optimal. If the driver Qts is in the 0.3 to 0.35 range then total system Q will be 0.5 or very close, and reproduction non resonant. This makes for a precise deep articulate bass. Unlike a a sealed box designed as a low Q system F3 will not be in the 60 to 80 Hz range, requiring heavy EQ, and therefore very low efficiency. Even with the damping there is controlled port output, augmenting the drivers as long as the line is not over damped. The efficiency is much higher than a sealed box or for that matter an infinite baffle enclosure.

Unfortunately people seem to have trouble designing these speakers optimally. There have been very few good commercial designs over the years. The last were by TDL, until John Wrights untimely death. PMC make TLs. but third party measurements tell me their designs are not optimal.

The only commercial dual line was by John Wright just before his untimely death, back in the early 80s. They sold here for $23,000 per pair.

In the bass to my ears, only well designed TLs or well designed bass horns really deliver true satisfying, realistic and articulate bass.
 
ARES24

ARES24

Full Audioholic
Thread jack away, these are very impressive speakers. I have looked at TLS' system a few times but I never really read all the details. I didn't know those were the drivers you used! When I win the lottery I think I will have to commission TLS to design my next home theatre and instruct me on the finer points of speaker design!!! :D
 
ARES24

ARES24

Full Audioholic
I have looked at the SEAS kits (I like the Thor). I am just fishing around for projects that people endorse. I think I am getting ahead of myself a little though. I have one project on the go and still want to make another sub (a prettier sister to the one that TLS already designed for me :D)

Oh well, I just saw these drivers and thought "Well I couldn't put a grill on those! I wonder what's out there?"

Complexity of the cabinet doesn't concern me in the slightest, I look at the TLS dual TL mains and think "I could probably have that cut and ready to assemble in a day":rolleyes:

It seems that I really like ribbon tweeters, speakers that have them just sound better to me. Maybe I will just throw the few marbles I have away one day and pester TLS Guy to help me design something!!!!!!!!!:eek:
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
^ thats cabinetry 101, whether its to store goods or store drivers. Cutting the pieces with the accuracy of todays power tools only asks for a small amount of experience to do it properly. Then its just several days of clamping and gluing. My only advice would be to buy a router guide for when you cut the driver holes ;-)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
It seems that I really like ribbon tweeters, speakers that have them just sound better to me. Maybe I will just throw the few marbles I have away one day and pester TLS Guy to help me design something!!!!!!!!!:eek:
What you really want is the Salk HT2-TL. HT2-TL - home

If you could directly compare them to your ER18 MTMs, you'd be surprised how similar they sound.

I have looked at the SEAS kits (I like the Thor). I am just fishing around for projects that people endorse. I think I am getting ahead of myself a little though. I have one project on the go and still want to make another sub (a prettier sister to the one that TLS already designed for me :D)
Before committing to the Thor, I think you should ask Dennis Murphy what he thinks of them. In the past, there was a controversy about it's crossover. I don't remember any of the details, and it is possible that the Thor design now includes a redesigned crossover.
 
ARES24

ARES24

Full Audioholic
^ thats cabinetry 101, whether its to store goods or store drivers. Cutting the pieces with the accuracy of todays power tools only asks for a small amount of experience to do it properly. Then its just several days of clamping and gluing. My only advice would be to buy a router guide for when you cut the driver holes ;-)
I've got a pair! Got one when I built my er18s and had to get another to go big enough for my sub!
 
ARES24

ARES24

Full Audioholic
What you really want is the Salk HT2-TL. HT2-TL - home

If you could directly compare them to your ER18 MTMs, you'd be surprised how similar they sound.
I love all of the Salk stuff!! If my house burns down a bonus is that I will be able to pass off my speakers as Salks so that I can get some authentic art made for me :D:D

Before committing to the Thor, I think you should ask Dennis Murphy what he thinks of them. In the past, there was a controversy about it's crossover. I don't remember any of the details, and it is possible that the Thor design now includes a redesigned crossover.
This is the kind of info I am looking for.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Thread jack away, these are very impressive speakers. I have looked at TLS' system a few times but I never really read all the details. I didn't know those were the drivers you used! When I win the lottery I think I will have to commission TLS to design my next home theatre and instruct me on the finer points of speaker design!!! :D
Why not drive up to Benedict Lake and hear it in person? He's an excellent host and the system is definitely worth hearing. He's got a very nice boat too.
 
ARES24

ARES24

Full Audioholic
Why not drive up to Benedict Lake and hear it in person? He's an excellent host and the system is definitely worth hearing. He's got a very nice boat too.
I'm on my way!!:D

..... if only I didn't have all these pesky responsibilities... btw, there are 3 Benedict lakes, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Idaho!:confused:
 
H

hydrovac

Enthusiast
Can you order these drivers online. Pl provide link.
 

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