sb13-plus vs VTF-3 MK4

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SunnyD

Audioholic Intern
Tale of the tape

Carpeted main room measuring 27.5ftLx15.5ftWx9ftH On the short side directly in the middle, a 3ft wide open doorway leading to a kitchen that is about 1912Cuft. Then there is another 3ft wide corridor leading to bedrooms. There is also 3 windows and a entry door to the main room.

My needs

I know there is a price difference between the two and more direct competitors to the mk4. but I'm partial to sealed subs. My priority is movies with music being a close 2nd. And SQ over SPL, but don't want to forgo oomph for it. The main goal is to get a excellent sub to full the space foremost. My budget is under a 1000, but would creep up, if the sb13plus filled that need.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The VTF3 will have more output in the deep frequencies but the SB13 should have more output higher up. The SB13 should also have better SQ, but the VTF3 is no slouch there either. The VTF3 is much larger but also much less expensive.

If you have the room for it, I might suggest two VTF2s as a good compromise. That solution would have output galore, lots of deep bass, very little distortion with respect to a single sub (drivers only have to work half as hard for the same output), better room coverage, and smoother room response. If you place them in separate corners, it also greatly lessens localization, which in turn lets you raise the crossover if you wanted more upper bass punch. And it would be cheaper than the SB13 as well.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
The SVS SB13-Plus is a great, sealed sub, but it just isn't well suited to the sort of large, open space that you have. As with virtually all sealed subs, the SB13-Plus starts to roll off its frequency response fairly high - around 40-45Hz. It is a shallow 2nd order roll off, thanks to the sealed design. So in a small, enclosed room, the boundary effects and room acoustics will boost that lowest octave of bass so that the overall frequency response is something closer to flat. But in a larger room such as yours that also has openings to other spaces, you're not going to get those bass reinforcement effects from the room itself, and you'd be left with something closer to the subwoofer's natural rolled off frequency response, which is less than ideal.

So, with your space considerations in mind, I would recommend getting a ported sub that can play nice and flat down to 20Hz or lower all on its own, as well as provide more output than a similarly priced sealed sub and be more efficient.

With your $1000 desired budget, it is unlikely that an SVSound sub will meet your needs and budget. The PC12-Plus DSP cylinder is $1300 delivered and the PB12-Plus DSP box is $1350 delivered, so at least a few hundred dollars over your budget. That said, if you can stretch your budget that far, you won't find better performance or a more sophisticated amp in the same price range. If you can swing $1300-$1350, I can 100% recommend an SVS "Plus" ported subwoofer.

Looking for something closer to your desired budget though, my next choice would certainly be Rythmik. When you want your stated combination of deep, powerful bass along with highly accurate, tight, controlled sound, Rythmik certainly fits the bill! Their ported subs are excellent.

Once again, going over budget, at $1200 + $120 shipping, the FV15HP is extremely close in terms of overall performance to the SVS PB12-Plus DSP. Of course, once you include shipping, it's also almost exactly the same price!

Right now, Rythmik is having a bit of an issue with parts supply. The flooding and other natural disasters in Asia has led to parts shortages for a lot of companies. As a result, many of Rythmik's models are on back order with no known shipping date for the foreseeable future.

The slightly less powerful FV15 doesn't have a "back order" flag on it at the moment on Rythmik's website, but I'd give them a phone call to check on stock, just to be careful. At $1050 + $120 shipping, the FV12 is closer to your budget while giving up only around 3dB of output across the board.

After SVSound and Rythmik, I'd look to HSU and Outlaw Audio (the Outlaw subs were made with substantial input about the design from Dr. Hsu).

I am not personally a fan of the HSU VTF-15H. In my own listening, it is my least favorite HSU sub that I have ever heard. So while it might claim the most output, it's not the sub that I would recommend. It just didn't have the same sound quality that I am used to from HSU/Outlaw subs. My experience in listening didn't line up exactly with the measurements that Audioholics posted in their review, but my overall feeling that it isn't HSU's best sub is shared. What I heard didn't sound as linear as the measurements that Audioholics got. I was hearing more of a hump in the 40Hz range as well as a fair amount of overhang and distortion in the lowest bass octave. To my ear, it just seemed as though the amp wasn't powerful enough to handle the lowest bass. I don't know. The VTF-15H certainly has some very vocal fans. But it isn't my top choice.

So I'm going to recommend the VTF-3 MK4, but with the caveat that I've only heard the VTF-3 MK3 in person. I am assuming though that the MK4 version won't be massively worse than the MK3 version for some odd reason though :p

The Outlaw LFM-1EX is a sister model to the VTF-3 MK3. So you can get a rough idea of the VTF-3's performance from the Audioholics review of the Outlaw LFM-1EX. The sound won't be completely identical, since the driver orientation and port location are different. But the components and overall design are largely the same. So it's a good "ballpark" idea of what you'd be getting.

I like HSU's VTF-3 MK3 a lot. As I said, I'd expect the VTF-3 MK4 to be very similar. It's got HSU's trademark clean and accurate sound. None of the bloated or overhang-laiden bass that plagues other reasonably priced ported subs. While HSU uses "off the shelf" parts at lower price points, he wrangles very good performance out of those parts with very good engineering and design.

Bottom line, if you want to stay under that $1000 budget, for your room, the HSU VTF-3 MK4 or Outlaw LFM-1EX is the way I would go! I personally think that the SVSound PB12-Plus DSP or PC12-Plus DSP cylinder is noticeably better, but it's also nearly twice the price and well over your budget. If you have the freedom to optimally place your subwoofers, you could almost get two of the VTF-3 MK4 or LFM-1EX for the same price!

Regardless, for your room size and environment with openings to other rooms, I would strongly recommend that you go with a ported sub in your situation. Between your original choices of the SVS SB13-Plus and HSU VTF-3 MK4, I would recommend the VTF-3 MK4 more highly for your setup. If you CAN stretch your budget, it is possible to get a subwoofer that is even a bit better in the Rythmik 15" ported subs or the SVSound "Plus" ported subs. But for under $1000, the VTF-3 MK4 or Outlaw LFM-1 EX are the way to go, IMO.

Hope that helps!
 
S

SunnyD

Audioholic Intern
I kind of figured as much; That no matter the size, a sealed sub wasn't going to be ideal for my situation. I was looking for confirmation. Got it! The next best thing for me to do is to get a ported sub designed with SQ in mind closet to the original "budget". The "budget" was wishful thinking. I got to face the math and science. That's why I took the time to explain the dynamics of the room.

Anyway,Two subs is too much. Most of us share our homes. Hopefully having one huge box in the living won't get me too much grief. Leaning towards the Rythmik 15. More reading to do.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Honestly if you aren't used to real bass. The Sealed sub might be your safe bet. Not everyone wants thundering bass(some of us have wives) In this case I recommend a sealed sub because of the roll-off. But if you want accurate production of LFE around 20hz. Go ported, but make sure the port is big enough. If you can I'd take a smaller ported sub over a bigger sub sealed for 20hz bass.

That being said I use a small sealed sub and I'd not switch to ported because the wife already complains if I crank it.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
I'll put this out there if your considering a ported subs under <$1000....I'm sure the Svs PB12 nsd will hold its own H2H against the VTF3 or the LFM EX1....;).
 
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