Say goodbye to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

[Privateer]

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=618

http://cube.ign.com/articles/606/606538p1.html?fromint=1
http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=11865&hed=Sony%2C+Toshiba+Eye+DVD+Format
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,67296,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_6

I think this would be for the best and in the end will improve on what we are using now.

 

[BMXTRIX]

In more recent news, it doesn't seem like this deal is going to happen. The HD disc talks didn't seem to lead to anything.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=548253

But, with a customer base in the millions for the PS3, I have to wonder what chance HD-DVD will have when it has far less hardware support, won't be offerred in nearly as many PCs, and will be far behind BD in the homes. What movie studio would specifically avoid the potential revenue by ignoring the millions of players that will already be in people's homes by Christmas of next year?

 

[Rob Babcock]

Yeah, from what I read the deal blew up a while ago.

 

[b_panther_g]

Hi everyone.

Yeah it seems that the talks have stalled because of how the lazer in each format reads the data.

Oh well. Looks like we have a battle on our hands.

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!


Hey BMX. You wrote...

...But, with a customer base in the millions for the PS3, I have to wonder what chance HD-DVD will have when it has far less hardware support, won't be offerred in nearly as many PCs, and will be far behind BD in the homes...

For some reason I disagree. I think HD-DVD computer sales will outsell the PS3.

I think that HD-DVD in the business sector alone will at lease equal that of the PS3. Then there are the early adopters and hardware freaks in the private sector. HD-DVDs can also be sold as a stand alone device, much like how DVD Roms are sold today. That will make it an easy upgrade.

I do my best to follow technology and I've noticed that we're in the beginning of a new trend. The way content is being delivered on the net is changing. More and more websites are offering video reports to supplement their text. Plus with a broadband connection you can now download a 200MB video in about 3 mins.

These videos quickly take up space. People (both content creators and viewers) are looking for a better mass storage device to archive their videos. DVDs are not enough anymore. Enter HD-DVD. It's the solution that many people are looking for.

Plus the makers of WinDVD have already stated that they have a software player for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD ready. They just need the OK to activate it. That's important because most people I know watch more DVDs on their computer or laptop than they do sitting in their living room. Here again HD-DVD has the advantage.

So I don't think that the PS3 is the nail in the coffin for HD-DVD. In fact, if Sony didn't release the PS3 with Blu-Ray, I think they would've been in a lot of trouble.


Just as a side note..
I'd still like to know why so many people think blu-ray is a better technology. Is it because it can store more data? If so, why does that matter so much?

Does blu-ray bring anything to the table that improves the viewing experience over hd-dvd? I know it can't deliver better sound. Does it deliver better video?

Is it more popular because it has a better name?

I'd really like to know. Until then...

Have fun and enjoy your movies,
Panther

 

[furrycute]

Blu-ray has almost 2x the storage compacity compared to HD-DVD. This is significant, because I can backup my files using 10 Blu-ray discs as opposed to using 20 HD-DVD discs.

Plus I am sick and tired of fingerprints, dust, scratches on DVD discs. Blu-ray has a protective case, so it's fingerprint, dust, scratch-proof.

 

[Audioholics]

They will likely drop the protective cover in generation two though, so that's not a big reason to like it.

I'm sick of format wars - both companies will lose out in the end because the technology will take forever to launch since consumers will hold back. It's a proven concept but neither side wants to admit it and as a result the transition to a truly HD video format for DVD will take a long time, instead of a rapid adoption like with CD and DVD.

 

[b_panther_g]

Blu-ray has almost 2x the storage compacity compared to HD-DVD. This is significant, because I can backup my files using 10 Blu-ray discs as opposed to using 20 HD-DVD discs.

Plus I am sick and tired of fingerprints, dust, scratches on DVD discs. Blu-ray has a protective case, so it's fingerprint, dust, scratch-proof.

Hi furrycute.

At this time you can't back up anything on Blu-Ray because Sony isn't releasing it on the PC. You can't record your data.

Sony is VERY restrictive about how you can use their tech. So at this point, you still have the same storage issue.

As far as fingerprints, dust and scratches - I don't have that problem and I use my dvds all the time. Plus I'm not sure how the case is going to help. If the case gets fingerprints, dust and scratches on it wouldn't it be just as bad? And wouldn't you still have to handle the Blu-Ray disk to put it in and take it out of the case? I just don't see how this is a real advantage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but don't see how your second point benefits you. As far as your 1st point, I think blu-ray is the last thing you want. Unless you make movies, all you'll be able to do with your blu-ray disks is play them. You can't store anything on them, you're not allowed and the technology (at this point) doesn't exist (or isn't being released to the public).

If I am misunderstanding your points, please let me know.

Thanks and enjoy,
Panther

 

[Audioholics]

Actually, Philips showed a PC drive at CES 2005 that demonstrated writable media (also note the lack of a cartridge case):

http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CEStechnology/PhilipsAllinOneOPU81BlurayDisc.php

Media

 

[b_panther_g]

Thanks Clint.

It's good to know that the Blu-Ray camp hasn't completely abandon the PC side.

 

[Takeereasy]

If both formats are backwards compatible with DVD then there will be a war, if not one will fizzle out as a HT medium IMO. I am not looking forward to replacing more than 150 DVDs. I still have 60 vhs tapes. I think that new formats are great ideas, but I'm not willing to toss out my DVD collection as quickly as I was my VHS collection,which as you can tell wasn't that quickly. It is an investment of thousands of $ in movies. Also doesn't HDDVD have a big price/ease of production advantage over blueray? I'm not willing to shell out $40 for a blueray movie that is not one iota better than a $25 HD DVD movie. Yeah, blueray offers more as a storage format, but nothing in the way of movie formats, at least not yet. Isn't it conceivable that the new surround formats could take up huge space? Maybe there will be surround formats that only Blueray can handle. I don't know, my head hurts.

 

[furrycute]

Are you kidding me with fingerprints, dust, and scratches? These have been my and others' biggest complaints since the launch of the CD/DVD format. At one point even Blockbuster considered scrapping their DVD rental plan because of all the scratches rented DVD discs were getting from consumers.

Try to backup 100gb of data (average size of modern harddrives) onto DVDR discs, and see how much dust and scratches you will get.

If memory serves, some companies in Taiwan are already planning to release PC Blu-ray recorders onto the market.

Hi furrycute.
As far as fingerprints, dust and scratches - I don't have that problem and I use my dvds all the time. Plus I'm not sure how the case is going to help. If the case gets fingerprints, dust and scratches on it wouldn't it be just as bad? And wouldn't you still have to handle the Blu-Ray disk to put it in and take it out of the case? I just don't see how this is a real advantage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but don't see how your second point benefits you. As far as your 1st point, I think blu-ray is the last thing you want. Unless you make movies, all you'll be able to do with your blu-ray disks is play them. You can't store anything on them, you're not allowed and the technology (at this point) doesn't exist (or isn't being released to the public).

If I am misunderstanding your points, please let me know.

Thanks and enjoy,
Panther

 

[b_panther_g]

Hi Takeereasy .

You do make a few good points and asked a some good questions.

As far as I know the players of both formats will be able to play today's DVDs.

HD-DVD is built on current DVD technology so I would think that it'll be cheaper to produce. But Sony did say that it is possible to produce Blu-Ray disks for about the same price.

Surround formats...That's what I'm really interested in.

Let see. Right now you can fit a 2 hrs. HD movie and 5.1 surround on a standard DVD. I don't have the numbers but I don't see why studios wouldn't be able to release ALL MOVIES with full lossless surround.

-Anyone want to get a petition going or something-

In any case I think that both formats have the space to support that too.

As far as the movie experience I think they are a wash. Neither will outperform the other.

As far as price I think the format war might help drive down the price of both the media and the players (I like that).

But as far as restrictions and a bunch of copyright BS (oops I mean copyright and fair-use issues) – I think Blu-Ray will be more restrictive.

But that's just what I think.

Enjoy,
Panther

 

[b_panther_g]

...Try to backup 100gb of data (average size of modern harddrives) onto DVDR discs, and see how much dust and scratches you will get.

I have and once again I don't have any major problems. Do I occasionally scratch a CD/DVD? Sure, who hasn't? Do I do it often? Nope. Have I ever heard of a foolproof storage solution? Nope.

If memory serves, some companies in Taiwan are already planning to release PC Blu-ray recorders onto the market.

As far as the Blu-Ray burners – You're right, they are out there. I guess we'll just have to see what's in store.

Have fun,
Panther

 

[furrycute]

As far as the Blu-Ray burners – You're right, they are out there. I guess we'll just have to see what's in store.

Have fun,
Panther

You contradict yourself.

1) You said you never had any problems with dust/scratches. Now you are admitting you have had these problems.

2) You said there are no PC Blu-ray recorders. Now you are admitting there are.

 

[Audioholics]

FWIW not really contradiction - but that's off topic.

It will be interesting to see how much more damaging smudges and scratches are on the reduced size blue lasers. Having come full circle from the original CD-R cartridges, I think that consumers may be ready to go back if it means less coasters and a great "trust" factor.

Who wants to put 50+GB of data on a disc only to lose it?

 

[Doug917]

I don't think either technology will catch on very quickly as the masses "Joe Sixpack" is perfectly happy with the quality of DVD on their 27" TV. I've got to admit myself, that I am happy with the present video quality on my 92" screen, provided the DVD was a quality recording. If I pop in a DVD like Bug's Life, Episode II, etc. I am perfectly happy with the video produced by the DVD. This might put me between Joe Sixpack and the high-end users, I don't know. Backward compatibility is a must. I have over 1300 DVDs and don't plan on replacing them; upconversion I imagine will work its way into players for this reason as well. Of course, I'm still one of the few with several hundred laserdiscs as well. I felt VHS and Laserdisc lacked video quality, and that was even back when I had a 32" TV. I'm sure HD-DVD or Blu-ray technologies will look better but I am going to wait a long time before I choose a side as I can live with the current DVD standard and be perfectly happy.

 

[BMXTRIX]

See, that's my thing... I don't think there are necessarily a ton of people chomping at the bit for HD recorders in their PCs. Some, yes, but not a lot. Of about a dozen + people I know with DVD recorders, most use them rarely at best, and usually for CD burning. Just a few actually may do an annual hard drive backup. It is still easier just to get another hard drive for redundancy.

So, with no push for either technology other than those of us that are interested, what WILL consumers possibly be interested in? Something that may be incredibly anticipated and will be guaranteed to sell in the millions.

What will be in so many homes hooked up to TVs just begging for HD discs to be played in them? Especially about the half of us who already know we will be buying one of those units for under $500.00 and anticpate it's arrival...

Yes, I believe PS3 will not only be a driving factor in the success of BD, but it will be the first and primary factor for the demise of HD-DVD. If nobody wants it and won't pay for it, HD-DVD is going nowhere. Unless it is given away with PCs and people want those PCs - who cares? The only guarantee in all of this is that the PS3 will sell in the millions of units and put those players into millions of homes.

 

[Catdaddy]

Yeah, in that article in the PC Magazine they talk about a new coating for the blu-ray discs that is practically scratch proof that will eliminate the need for any kind of protectice cover on blu-ray DVDs, as Clint was saying.

Claim you could be scrubbing the crap out of it with a brillo pad without concerns.

The way I see it though, its a time for rejoicing .. HD-DVD, blu-ray, bring them on .. im gettin tired of just D-VHS and cable. Hmm, x360 and PS3, too .. and RX-V4600 around the corner.

Its a good time to be a audio/videoholic.

Doug, I would say that my DVDs run through a DVI cable to my XV-Z12000 look almost, sometimes very close to, as good as my D-VHS tapes. Aside from sometimes an artifact or two if you have a great scaler/upconverter the picture looks pretty damn good.

I know that ever since ive gotten the firehawk screen, running my 12000 in high contrast mode, most of the dark scenes I see look 3-d to me. My brother cried when i threw in "Underworld" for him, even at just the title menu.

I know I cant wait to see "Underworld," "MI-2," "The Matrix-es," and "Batman Begins," to name a few in full glory on my firehawk screen.

 

[korgoth]

this is a non issue... the people that like hd-dvd and the people that have no idea.. might try hd because most likely it will come out first..

then as soon as blue ray comes out it will take over..

just like gameboy and psp..

blue ray will take over with no effort.

 

[Duffinator]

this is a non issue... the people that like hd-dvd and the people that have no idea.. might try hd because most likely it will come out first..

then as soon as blue ray comes out it will take over..

just like gameboy and psp..

blue ray will take over with no effort.

I think that was the same logic in the Betamax vs. VHS war as well.