Salesman Credibility (Yamaha bias)

[morcutt]

ok, so I visited a store that I'll keep nameless for the moment (like anyone won't be able to figure it out) and heard a nice pair of Boston Acoustic speakers in their 'premium audio' room where the store sells their high-end gear (these are $500 VR3 speakers). The only available sources for listening to the speakers was Denon or Pioneer Elite receivers. I asked if they could bring in and connect a Yamaha HTR-5990 receiver that they sell on the main floor, and the salesman responded that it isn't allowed in this 'premium' room as it can't compete with the Denon or Pioneer receivers that were there; specifically, the Yamaha didn't have a high quality output stage (not a high current design). Mind you this is a $1000 Yamaha and the room has $400 Denon receivers...

I've been a Yamaha person since the A-1000 integrated amp days. I thought that the higher $ Yamaha receivers had MOSFET/high current output stages. Am I wrong? I looked around the Web, but I couldn't find any specifics on the technology used in the Yamaha receiver (outside of the standard Yamaha marketing terms like "ToP - ART" - which is appended with the term "High Current").

Granted, I can go elsewhere and I'll get the Yamaha anyway (and the VR3's) as I like both, but I would like to know if I can find some "in your face" statements about the quality of the Yamaha receiver that I could "share" with the salesman....

Thoughts?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Granted, I can go elsewhere and I'll get the Yamaha anyway (and the VR3's) as I like both, but I would like to know if I can find some "in your face" statements about the quality of the Yamaha receiver that I could "share" with the salesman....

Thoughts?

You may want to ask if you can demo another one from the floor, like another Denon? If the answer is yes, then you can tell him since you can hook that one up, why not the Yam and you be the judge of which ones is competitive and meets your need. If the answer is no, then you go elsewhere.
You don't need to worry about the design of the Yam. If its specs are good, better than the other two, and meets your needs, go for it. Dr. David Rich has shown that it really doesn't matter, modern components are transparent.

 

[mike c]

the only "in your face" 'statement' you can give to him that will make him change his ways is your fist.

seriousness aside. (pun intended)

1) ask him to define "high quality output stage"

2) then bluff him into believing that you'll only buy his receivers (and got lots more cash to spend with him) if he lets you hear the two receivers back to back. and then ask him to point out the "difference" to you

 

[3db]

ok, so I visited a store that I'll keep nameless for the moment (like anyone won't be able to figure it out) and heard a nice pair of Boston Acoustic speakers in their 'premium audio' room where the store sells their high-end gear (these are $500 VR3 speakers). The only available sources for listening to the speakers was Denon or Pioneer Elite receivers. I asked if they could bring in and connect a Yamaha HTR-5990 receiver that they sell on the main floor, and the salesman responded that it isn't allowed in this 'premium' room as it can't compete with the Denon or Pioneer receivers that were there; specifically, the Yamaha didn't have a high quality output stage (not a high current design). Mind you this is a $1000 Yamaha and the room has $400 Denon receivers...

I've been a Yamaha person since the A-1000 integrated amp days. I thought that the higher $ Yamaha receivers had MOSFET/high current output stages. Am I wrong? I looked around the Web, but I couldn't find any specifics on the technology used in the Yamaha receiver (outside of the standard Yamaha marketing terms like "ToP - ART" - which is appended with the term "High Current").

Granted, I can go elsewhere and I'll get the Yamaha anyway (and the VR3's) as I like both, but I would like to know if I can find some "in your face" statements about the quality of the Yamaha receiver that I could "share" with the salesman....

Thoughts?

Your kidding right?? OMG .. What a twit. I would have asked to speak to the store manager. Anyone that knows anything about Audio knows that Denon and Yamaha are competing at the same level in terms of price and quality. Denon is no better than Yamaha. If Yamaha isn't in the high end room, then Denon doesn't belong there either.

Curious, Is it Audiotronic?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Your kidding right?? OMG .. What a twit. I would have asked to speak to the store manager. Anyone that knows anything about Audio knows that Denon and Yamaha are competing at the same level in terms of price and quality. Denon is no better than Yamaha. If Yamaha isn't in the high end room, then Denon doesn't belong there either.

Curious, Is it Audiotronic?

It sounds like Magnolia and BB. The Yamaha "high end" twin version of the 5990 is the RX-V1600. That unit would most likely compete with the Denon 2805. IMO, it's a better unit than the 2805. If you check the dynamic power of the 5990, it's much higher at lower ohms than the Denon. Heck, there's more dynamic power than the Denon 3805. Have that salesman pull out the manuals of both the 5990 and Denon 3805 and compare the specs on the last page. That's your "in your face" argument.

Funny, the Yamaha website on the 5990 states on the third bullet down "Digital ToP-ART and High Current Amplification." Did this knucklehead even check the website?

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/HTIB/HTR5990.htm

 

[GlocksRock]

I would just go back and talk to a different salesperson, maybe that one was just lazy and didn't feel like having to hook up a diff. receiver in another room.

 

[morcutt]

Thanks!

Everyone, thanks for your feedback. It helps to have a sanity check sometimes. I can't begin to understand how there could be significant tonal differences in $1000 receivers from different main-stream manufacturers. I seriously doubt I (or anyone else there) could detect the difference between the different receivers in blind testing. Buckeyefan is correct - it's a BestBuy store with their special "Magnolia" room. I get the impression that they are unwilling to bring anything into the room from the main floor (maybe Denon, Pioneer, etc. pay extra to keep other people out - who knows). I think that the problem here is that the salesman doesn't realize that the equipment out on the main floor includes equipment like the 5990, and he problably knows nothing about it.

I will go back and ask them to bring the Yamaha in again. If they refuse, I'll talk to the manager and ask why they're not interested in an approximately $3000 sale.

 

[gcmarshall]

i'd say it's highly unlikely they will hook up a 5990 in the magnolia premium room. give it shot, but i doubt they'll do it. another idea would be to buy the 5990 and try it out at home for a while knowing that you have 30 days to return it. just keep the box, the receipt, all peripheral items, and keep it in pristine condition and they are obliged to refund your money if you are not satisfied.

unless you "need" HDMI or XM, give the 2500 a look. they are being closed out to make room for the new 2600. i picked one up for under $800 at an authorized retailer in my area and others are getting even better deals than that.

 

[Mayhem]

Definatly sounds like typical Mag/BB behavior. I got the same line about Yamaha being crap when I visited them. Personally, I just wouldn't go back, any store that won't allow you to demo stuff as you asked doesn't seem to want your business.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

another idea would be to buy the 5990 and try it out at home for a while knowing that you have 30 days to return it. just keep the box, the receipt, all peripheral items, and keep it in pristine condition and they are obliged to refund your money if you are not satisfied.

Isn't Best Buy notorious for having a "restocking" fee?

 

[indianboy7]

Isn't Best Buy notorious for having a "restocking" fee?

only on laptops and computers.........at least that's the way it was when i worked there a few years ago...

edit: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?type=page&entryURLType=&entryURLID=&categoryId=cat10004&contentId=1117177044087&id=cat12098

 

[gcmarshall]

no restocking fee that i know of. their receipts clearly state the return policy.

 

[Mr. Lamb Fries]

And the mother of all disclaimers-

"Best Buy reserves the right to deny any return."

This is listed on the bottom of the page. If you want to return, just contact the Corperate offices and tell the you got it as a gift to someone (sibling, child, parents) and thought it was a good idea to have them come back and pick out the one they want in person. that might just get yo a gift card, but its better than being stuck with a product you are unhappy with.

 

[morcutt]

After reading bestbuysux.org, I would say the ability to return anythign to BestBuy is hit & miss. Considering that there are a lot of stereo shops around and everyone sells at essentially the same price, I may just move on to another store and not even go back to BB.

 

[GlocksRock]

The less you shop at best buy, the happier you will be.

 

[dsegel]

The Magnolia stores inside of BB are probably contractually obligated to only allow certain brands within the "High End Room" or whatever they call it.

 

[gcmarshall]

and, whatever you do, NEVER ever buy an extended service contract or warranty at best buy. they push those very hard b/c they make a ton of money off of them. statistically and financially speaking, you are usually going to be better off in the long-run with the manufacturer's warranty that comes with your product.

 

[morcutt]

I'm with dsegel - I suspect that there is favored contract terms to Denon, Pioneer, and other name brands that are in the Magnolia rooms that offer BestBuy wider margins or some other incentive to restrict the room to those brands. Otherwise, it is completely illogical to not allow a $1000 Yamaha in a room with $400 Denons, etc.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Yeah, I'm not sure you are dealing with a jerk or anything. While the person is definitely not trained on Yammie equipment so it obviously clueless, he may very well be doing his job by denying the cross-over between Best Buy merchanside and Magnolia merchandise.

Not just contracturally, but if there were to be some problem with the hook ups, I believe mini-Mag keeps their accounting completely separate from BB, so who is going to eat the cost if there is an issue? The mini-Mag guy isn't trained to hook it up properly (yeah, right) and the BB guy isn't trained to work with those 'nice' speakers correctly (yeah right). It's a no-win situation really.

Depending no your location, you should be able to find a real audio store that carries Yamaha and be able to actually demo Yamaha gear in person. Likewise, getting stuff in your home to demo in real life is a great way to do things. Using your own wires, a couple of different speakers, and a couple different receivers. Find what you like best, then keep it - return the rest.

 

[mtrycrafts]

and then ask him to point out the "difference" to you

He needs to make sure that sales guy doesn't know which one he is describing Then show him. But, I think, they will not bring in another amp, too much trouble for them.