RSL speakers are back once again.

TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
http://rslspeakers.com/

http://rslspeakers.com/About_Us.html

Patented Compression GuideTM Technology
Interesting, but I would still like to see a large model available regardless of the claims.

There is a load of BS on their site. For instance a 1000 Hz tone is not going to excite the tuning resonance of a speaker at 60 Hz.

They do not give a diagram of their compression guide. So cry bogus until proved otherwise and sensible details from them.

However it does sound as if they are describing a type of labyrinth design which if done correctly would have merit. If that is so then -3 db at 100 Hz would be comparable to a small sealed enclosure, and the roll off would only be 12 dn per octave.

On the other hand this might be a rehash of the old BIC venturi and a disaster.

I would strongly advise against buying site unseen.
 
R

rslspeakers

Enthusiast
RSL Speakers

Hello,

I’m new to Audioholics. I founded RSL Speakers and have responsible for designing and manufacturing the speakers over the years. Yesterday I was surfing around on the forums and noticed this page with comments on our new line of speakers. First, I want to thank Audioholics for providing a place for these comments and for me to be able to respond. Second, I want to thank those who posted their comments. Even though they may not be all positive, it is beneficial to us to know what people think who are passionate about audio.

With that, I’d like to share a few thoughts regarding the issues that have been raised. I can really understand why somebody would be skeptical and don’t blame that person. We lived in an over-hyped age. When it comes to speakers, every manufacturer uses glowing adjectives to describe their products (we do that ourselves).

First, let’s discuss the idea of “small speakers” with limited bass response selling for $500 per pair and whether larger speakers would be a better alternative. Those who have followed the history of RSL know that over the years we’ve built speakers of all sizes, most of them large. We spent 3 years developing our current line. Prior to that, I was using 2 very large RSL Speakers for my own system. Our goals, which should be the goals of every speaker, is to reproduce the entire range for bottom to top smoothly and without undue emphasis in any particular range. Another goal would be clarity, transparency (and probably a bunch of other audio terms). A third goal should be proper soundstaging and imaging.

The RSL CG4 should really be thought of as a satellite/subwoofer system that is combined with our RSL Speedwoofer 10. As such, we are talking about a stereo speaker system that sells from us for $1,250. I think we may not have done a good job in communicating that. So, then the question is: how does it compare to other alternatives? That is how we’d like it to be judged. We are saying that it provides a seamless response from the mid 20 Hz region to beyond 30 Khz. Is this what large speakers are supposed to do? Therefore, I don’t see any advantage to larger cabinets. Some may like the larger speakers, because often with larger woofers in larger cabinets, there is added warmth. Personally, we don’t like the speaker to add anything that isn’t there.

It’s true you can get a good set of speakers in large cabinets for what we sell 2 of our CG4s for. Of course you are all aware of some of the small cabinet speakers sell for $2,000 per pair or more. That is who we are targeting. We spent a lot of time taking our prototypes to home theater stores comparing ours to these speakers before we made the decision to produce ours (I would prefer not to mention brands, because I don’t like to disparage anyone).

And we have determined that the best imaging and soundstage can be achieved with the smallest possible drivers. The big requirement here is that they match the subwoofer without any gaps, which the CG4s do. These speakers image better than any larger speaker we’ve ever made. Another advantage of having the subwoofer separate is that the best spot in a room for a subwoofer may not be the best place for the satellite speakers. We also like the fact that the bass volume can be controlled independently. Even those few tall column speakers with built in subs can’t be independently placed and their bass response does not extend to the mid 20’s.

Early in our product launch, we sold a set to a local person, so I went along to see how they would install. The person had just spent $1.500 per pair for a large very well known brand of speakers. His intent was to use our CG4s for surrounds and our subwoofer. We brought extra speakers and asked if we can hook up CG4’s for the fronts. After listening, he said he wanted to use ours as the fronts as was very sorry he purchased the big speakers.

One last comment. Regarding the 1000Hz tone exciting the cabinet resonance, I beg to differ. This is easily proven and is acknowledged by every speaker designer I know of. You can tap on a woofer cone and hear the resonance. It’s why acoustic guitars have cavities that affect any sound that’s strummed. In all the years of building speakers, I have always believed that resonance is the enemy of good sound in speakers, but I respect your right to your opinion.

As this posting is probably too long already I will close by saying, yes, I agree we make some bold claims on our site. However, unlike most other speaker companies, we back it up. Our guarantee is simply. If you’re not thrilled with our product, we will refund your full purchase price and pay shipping both ways. Your out of pocket cost is zero. I don’t know of too many companies who are willing to do this. Fortunately, so far people have been very happy and have sent us a lot of praise.

If any of you would like to speak with me in person, I’d enjoy meeting you. Feel free to call the number on our site and ask for Howard.

Again, thank you Audioholics and thank you for reading this long post.

Howard

PS. Compression Guide is not like the old BIC Venturi Also, I’ve been a big fan of transmission line speakers since the 1970’s.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
One last comment. Regarding the 1000Hz tone exciting the cabinet resonance, I beg to differ. This is easily proven and is acknowledged by every speaker designer I know of. You can tap on a woofer cone and hear the resonance. It’s why acoustic guitars have cavities that affect any sound that’s strummed. In all the years of building speakers, I have always believed that resonance is the enemy of good sound in speakers, but I respect your right to your opinion.
You show me how you can stimulate any resonant structure with a single tone well above the resonant frequency.

In physics this is exactly the same as trying to excite a 60 Hz pendulum with a 1000 Hz vibrator! And yes, the situations are exactly equivalent. Tapping on a loudspeaker cone will excite a whole range of frequencies and is irrelevant to your argument.

The guitar analogy is also a red herring.
 
R

rslspeakers

Enthusiast
Thank you for your rapid response. As much as I respect your right to an opinion, over the past 40 years I have heard and measured the harmful effects of resonance on frequencies that emanate from woofers. As I don’t wish to pursue this debate any further, let’s just agree to disagree.

My suggestion is that it is always a good idea to actually listen to speakers before being critical of them.

Howard
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
Hello, Howard

Nice to see RSL back making speakers. One of my favorite speakers growing up was an 8" 2 way bookshelf from the early 90's that blew me away. Cant recall the model though. I use to listen to speakers all the time in the Montclair Ca. store. I was like a piece of furniture in that place.

How well do these new designs sound as near field monitors ?

Good luck and welcome.:)
 
R

rslspeakers

Enthusiast
Hello, Howard

Nice to see RSL back making speakers. One of my favorite speakers growing up was an 8" 2 way bookshelf from the early 90's that blew me away. Cant recall the model though. I use to listen to speakers all the time in the Montclair Ca. store. I was like a piece of furniture in that place.

How well do these new designs sound as near field monitors ?

Good luck and welcome.:)
Hi,
Thanks for the good wishes! The design of the Montclair store was my favorite. One month after it opened, an earthquake caused some damage. Could the speakers you're referring to be the RSL Magnificents? The new models will do very well as near-field monitors. We have actually compared them side by side with some pretty expensive ones. I recommend using a subwoofer. However, if you don't wish to, I'd go with the CG24 Monitors as they have a bit more low end.

Again, thanks for the comments!
Howard
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
$500 for a pair of speakers that are 3db down at 100 hz - I will look
for something else.
Keep in mind, they have 4" woofers. Don't expect miracles or throbbing gristle bass.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thank you for your rapid response. As much as I respect your right to an opinion, over the past 40 years I have heard and measured the harmful effects of resonance on frequencies that emanate from woofers. As I don’t wish to pursue this debate any further, let’s just agree to disagree.

My suggestion is that it is always a good idea to actually listen to speakers before being critical of them.

Howard
Are you using Peerless and Vifa drivers, or are you having the woofers made by Tymphany?
 
R

rslspeakers

Enthusiast
Are you using Peerless and Vifa drivers, or are you having the woofers made by Tymphany?
Hi,
You're right about the bass. Although we feel they sound really good when played by themselves, they're really designed to be used with our sub. As far as who makes the woofers, we don't get into revealing our parts sources, but I can tell you that you're not too far off.
Regards
 
H

HTfreq

Audiophyte
Beauty is in the EAR of the beholder

Why must people continue to argue about something that is as individual as how you like your coffee?
Specs are meaningless if you can't/don't hear the difference. Even within the same line of products, from any manufacturer, there will be variations on a theme, based on design, application, source, room acoustics, speaker placement, wiring and both amplification and processing hardware.
I worked at the Montclair store (loved it), demonstrating speakers and components and educating consumers on how to listen, using the musical content they preferred, trying to minimize or eliminate anything that wasn't on the recording. We would demo our speakers (and everyone else's) with their placement as optimized as space would allow and drove them with some of the best electronics of the day, with pre-amp settings ABSOLUTELY FLAT.
If 'resonance' is defined as some vibration, frequency, harmonic or other sound that isn't part of the concept and vision of the artist, recording engineers and producer on whatever you're listening to, then it's just NOISE and has no business interfering with your listening experience.
The 'perfect' speaker system is supposed to disappear in an eyes-closed, focus-on-what-you-hear-exclusively listening situation. You hear what is supposed to be there and nothing that is not.
It was always the goal at RSL to help consumers get it right, by offering quality gear and the best advice. Thanks to Howard for continuing that quest...
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Try these for $690/pr ... similar roll off.

They sounded great BTW. :)

Oh wait ... you meant look for something less expensive. :D
... well there's plenty of that.;)
Not really looking for less expensive - want bass below 100hz

This is what I like - and they are good. Only $219 a pair.
The woofer and tweeter really mate well - they are well
balanced. This speaker throws a big sound stage with a
rich midrange. It is strong with music and movies.
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets/documents/S30_Technical_Specification.pdf
 
Last edited:
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Not really looking for less expensive - want bass below 100hz.
I see. :)

I sort of get the role speakers that only play down to 100Hz have in the market place. The bass would have to come from a sub that will pretty much kick any bookshelf's @ss in the bass department.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I see. :)

I sort of get the role speakers that only play down to 100Hz have in the market place. The bass would have to come from a sub that will pretty much kick any bookshelf's @ss in the bass department.
http://www.snellacoustics.com/K7Lit_31508.pdf
Yea, my Snell thread got a lot of attention - I should have reviewed
a Polk speaker.

I like the NHT Super Zero
There are good 100hz speakers - I prefer that they go lower.
I like for a sub to take over at 80hz.
 
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GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Why must people continue to argue about something that is as individual as how you like your coffee?
hrm?? How are things like reproduction, output/extension capability, and audibility of unwanted resonances "individual"?

Whatever floats your boat.

Specs are meaningless if you can't/don't hear the difference.
Of course, with deviations in meaningful measurements, you most certainly do hear a difference.

It was always the goal at RSL to help consumers get it right, by offering quality gear and the best advice.
That's nice. It still doesn't explain or demonstrate that 1khz will excite cabinet resonances, which are lower in frequency.
 
R

rslspeakers

Enthusiast
hrm?? How are things like reproduction, output/extension capability, and audibility of unwanted resonances "individual"?

Whatever floats your boat.



Of course, with deviations in meaningful measurements, you most certainly do hear a difference.



That's nice. It still doesn't explain or demonstrate that 1khz will excite cabinet resonances, which are lower in frequency.
Pick-up an acoustic guitar and play any string. You'll hear the cavity resonance.
 
R

rslspeakers

Enthusiast
Why must people continue to argue about something that is as individual as how you like your coffee?
Specs are meaningless if you can't/don't hear the difference. Even within the same line of products, from any manufacturer, there will be variations on a theme, based on design, application, source, room acoustics, speaker placement, wiring and both amplification and processing hardware.
I worked at the Montclair store (loved it), demonstrating speakers and components and educating consumers on how to listen, using the musical content they preferred, trying to minimize or eliminate anything that wasn't on the recording. We would demo our speakers (and everyone else's) with their placement as optimized as space would allow and drove them with some of the best electronics of the day, with pre-amp settings ABSOLUTELY FLAT.
If 'resonance' is defined as some vibration, frequency, harmonic or other sound that isn't part of the concept and vision of the artist, recording engineers and producer on whatever you're listening to, then it's just NOISE and has no business interfering with your listening experience.
The 'perfect' speaker system is supposed to disappear in an eyes-closed, focus-on-what-you-hear-exclusively listening situation. You hear what is supposed to be there and nothing that is not.
It was always the goal at RSL to help consumers get it right, by offering quality gear and the best advice. Thanks to Howard for continuing that quest...

Thanks for the kind words! Of all our stores, Montclair was my favorite design. I think that there have been a lot of good speakers mentioned on the forum here. As we all know, there are speakers in every price range. As far as our goal when we were developing our current speakers, we realized that there are already great values out there. We decided that if we could succeed in offering a reasonably-priced speaker that would provide the sound that is normally associated with the higher end then we would do it. That would be different. Otherwise, why bother.



I think the mistake that we made was to feature our small speakers by themselves. They are really part of our CG Stereo Speaker System, which includes our subwoofer, which they match perfectly. Also, in a home theater configuration, they go with the subwoofer. For stereo, we are a firm believer in 2.1 configurations. So, when people judge the speakers, they should consider the 3 piece stereo system, which sells for $1250 and judge it against other comparably-priced systems. Or, consider the entire home theater system.
 
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