Rookie needs help...

[RugbyJimmy]

From reading, it appears that the experts get posts like these 5 times a day. I apologize for another post like this.

It appears I put the chicken before the egg (or however that saying goes).

First, a disclaimer. I know nothing about home audio...nothing. After reading through various forums for 4+ hours, I am even more confused.

I recently purchased a Pioneer Elite vsx-94 because my old Harmon Kardon AVR-110 was getting old. I still have my old HK 5.1 speaker set. It appears I should have picked out my speakers first.

My current setup now is PS3, Samsung 650LCD and now the Elite 94. I use the setup mainly for watching movies and gaming. Not so much music. However, I might start using for music now becuase of the iPod dock.

I am looking to spend between $750 and $1,000 on speakers. That is all I can afford now.

I sincerely appreciate any help.

 

[jostenmeat]

I am looking to spend between $750 and $1,000 on speakers. That is all I can afford now.

I sincerely appreciate any help.

A few questions:

1. Do you mind blowing it all on a pair of higher end speakers, and adding later?

2. Is this primarily an HT system?

3. Do you like it loud? (wouldn't mind shaking the walls?)

4. What are the dimensions of the room?

 

[RugbyJimmy]

Answers...

First, thank you!

1. Do you mind blowing it all on a pair of higher end speakers, and adding later?

I don't mind adding later. Whatever would be worth it. As I said, I am a rookie.

2. Is this primarily an HT system?

Yes, primarily a home theatre system.

3. Do you like it loud? (wouldn't mind shaking the walls?)

Doesn't really matter. I like quality. You know, hearing those little noises I couldn't hear before. Ambiance (sp?) is really important to me.

4. What are the dimensions of the room?

Room is setup in two halves. One half is home theatre...other half is rec. The half of the room the HT sits on is about 22 lengthwise by about 12 wide. If I am facing the television and front speakers, the right wall would be open. However, all speakers fit in the HT area.

 

[jostenmeat]

Doesn't really matter. I like quality. You know, hearing those little noises I couldn't hear before. Ambiance (sp?) is really important to me.

Are you sure it doesn't matter? I ask because if HT dynamics are not important, and SQ is top priority no matter what, you might find you are better off spending on bookshelves. However, HT tracks rarely have the resolution to make high fidelity so important. OTOH, HT tracks provide oodles and oodles of dynamics.

Room is setup in two halves. One half is home theatre...other half is rec. The half of the room the HT sits on is about 22 lengthwise by about 12 wide. If I am facing the television and front speakers, the right wall would be open. However, all speakers fit in the HT area.

Not a very small room at all, if 22 ft is just half of the length, and the whole place is open as well. You are going to want a very serious subwoofer eventually.

Anyhoo, I think the best thing is to start visiting stores, and putting on some music that you love and are very familiar with. Bring a notepad and pen to jot notes.

Some B&M models to possibly check out include Paradigm Studios, Monitor Audio RS6/RS8, PSB Imagines.

There are ID (internet direct brands) and the first one I think of is AV123 Rockets. I have had very good experiences with Ascend, but they only sell bookshelves. Axiom and Aperion both sell towers, but I've heard neither. Be careful which Aperions you choose due to very low sensitivity on some models.

Good luck.

 

[Swerve]

You've got to go listen to them, and then buy the ones you like best. I'd suggest replacing your fronts and center at the same time as these should be matched up as best as possible. Try to buy the same brand within the same line here, but let the fronts decide which way you go. The rear speakers are a lesser priority, and the sub is the last thing you should replace, if at all. You're probably okay with keeping these as they are.

There are lots of really good bookshelves you can use for fronts instead of floorstanders. Generally, floorstanders will sound better but not always. Good luck!

 

[RugbyJimmy]

Are you sure it doesn't matter? I ask because if HT dynamics are not important, and SQ is top priority no matter what, you might find you are better off spending on bookshelves. However, HT tracks rarely have the resolution to make high fidelity so important. OTOH, HT tracks provide oodles and oodles of dynamics.

Well, to put it bluntly, I just want a great movie watching experience with Blu-Ray and good gaming sound.

 

[jostenmeat]

Well, to put it bluntly, I just want a great movie watching experience with Blu-Ray and good gaming sound.

Hey don't we all.

HT audio: dynamics, dynamics, dynamics. Speakers that can crank. Subs that can crank. Amps that can crank.

SQ importance:

-listener positioning
-speakers positioning
-room acoustics, and the efforts to control them with treatments and correction
-speakers and subs chosen
-adequate amplification

If you can swing it, do identical speakers for the front three eventually. Like three towers if your display is wall mounted high enough.

100% HT, I'd see if you can possibly afford some JTRs. Perhaps the Triple 8s might fit into budget, but they would love you if you gave them healthy power. Pro amp will be the best bang for buck in this situation. You can get financing on them it seems.

 

[AVRat]

Well, to put it bluntly, I just want a great movie watching experience with Blu-Ray and good gaming sound.

Well that takes at least a good front sounstage and a kick @ss sub. The receiver is a decently powered unit which provides you with plenty of options. Any speaker/sub advice you'll receive will be heads above your current HK setup.

Now trying to figure out the best possible strategy to upgrade your system starting with $1000 is another matter. For that money I'd either purchase the L/C/R speakers or the sub, but not try to get it all in one shot. You have a fairly sizable room (22 x 24 x 8 I'm guessing here) that will require a potent sub to fill it and would run about your budget at least.

In this budget range the Ascend Acoustics CMT-340/340C combo always seems to be my first thought for $$/performance. As Josten mentioned, they are bookshelfs but with their matching stands provide a floorstanding stature and all can be had now for $838 shipped. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html

I also found a Jamo c605/c60 combo in your budget: http://www.home-technology-store.com/Audio-Video/JA-C605BA.aspx

 

[fredk]

I'm going to disagree with Josten slightly. Dynamics to me refers to the range of loudness a speaker can handle while still acurately reproducing the required sound. Dynamics is eqally important in music, particularly stuff like classical.

A speaker that does well with music will also do well with HT, not to mention that there is of music in movies.

If you want a great HT experience, don't skimp on the sub. I would go so far as to say that it would be worth it to scale back on the mains to a bookshelf in order to get a quality sub.

This is coming from a guy that didn't care that much about sound for movies before moving to 5.1 sound.

Upgrade either the mains or the sub first.

Is the EMP deal still going?

 

[jostenmeat]

Hi fred, I understand what you are saying, and this sort of topic (as with many others) has been discussed a lot. Varying viewpoints.

I'm going to disagree with Josten slightly. Dynamics to me refers to the range of loudness a speaker can handle while still acurately reproducing the required sound. Dynamics is eqally important in music, particularly stuff like classical.

I pretty much only listen to classical, and the volumes obtained in the HT are MUCH greater. You don't get stuff like very frequent midbass peaks of extreme nature in music as you would with say Band of Brothers DTSMA.

A speaker that does well with music will also do well with HT, not to mention that there is of music in movies.

For sure, but I guess my point was that on a limited budget, I would spend differently depending on the main usage.

For instance, I doubt that an Ascend bookshelf can handle the power I feed my PSB towers, or that they could provide anything close to the midbass my towers are providing. In fact, I feel that I should've got larger towers that can even more effectively produce this type of thing.

OTOH, if it was primarily for music listening, I would most likely opt for a nice pair of bookshelves, with the best resolution I could find per dollar. Stuff like Ascend would be very high on my list. But not for an HT first system, IMO. HT doesn't require anything close to the same resolution as classical music. The only time I wish for a bit more resolution, particularly in the midbass, is with, well, classical music Blurays.

I am lucky that I have a separate stereo for music. Last night it was some Lassus as performed by the Hilliard ensemble.

Just my viewpoint, and thanks for sharing yours.

 

[fredk]

I pretty much only listen to classical, and the volumes obtained in the HT are MUCH greater. You don't get stuff like very frequent midbass peaks of extreme nature in music as you would with say Band of Brothers DTSMA.

Interesting. I suppose all that bass lfe typically handled by the sub also produced mid bass peaks. I had never thought of that.

On my budget I would not have spent differently, though I really had no idea at the time.

 

[RugbyJimmy]

Thank You

Guys,

Thank you all for the help. I stopped by Best Buy and listened to a few of their speakers. I listend to some Definitive Technology BP7002's today. I was quite impressed and slapped my forehead at what I had been missing (The guy put Pink Floyd's "Money" on for a test drive).


It appears that I am going to have to spend a bit more money on my speakers (hopefully less than $2K). Anymore suggestions with that pricepoint?

 

[AVRat]

Is that for a full 5.1 speaker setup or a piece of the whole pie? Per my previous post, $2K will get you a decent front soundstage and sub like the SVS PB12- Plus or Epik Tower.

 

[RugbyJimmy]

I am thinking the front 3 at first. I can work on the surrounding 4 later in the year.

 

[Neijii]

With a 2k budget you have A LOT of choices for bookshelves.

Are you able to audition speakers anywhere? I have the Totem Mite, which I found to be extremely dynamic in sound. I like it more than the B&W I auditioned..you can go one up and get the Mite-T with the HSU STF-2 sub. That would be a kickass starting point in my opinion.

There are so many options you should go to a specialty store and see what they have to listen to.

 

[Soundman]

Guys,

Thank you all for the help. I stopped by Best Buy and listened to a few of their speakers. I listend to some Definitive Technology BP7002's today. I was quite impressed and slapped my forehead at what I had been missing (The guy put Pink Floyd's "Money" on for a test drive).


It appears that I am going to have to spend a bit more money on my speakers (hopefully less than $2K). Anymore suggestions with that pricepoint?

When it comes time to buy, it's generally reccomended to stay away from Bestbuy. You'll be able to make a better informed decision shopping in other places. As far as the sub goes, I'd recomend a nice big one from SVS or HSU. Your room is so big, space shouldn't be an issue. But you're definitely going to want to fill in the bottom end if HT is your main concern.

 

[AVRat]

FYI, while the Def Tech BP7002s are nice speakers, don't expect their built-in "subwoofers" to provide the same performance as a good separate sub.

For just the L/C/R, $2K will up the performance level a bit and gives you more floorstanding options.

Polk Audio RTi A5/A6 - $1200 Amazon maybe the A7 - $1100/pr (J&R, Crutchfield)
PSB Image T55/C60 - MSRP $1400
Paradigm Studio line maybe
Energy
Monitor Audio
Aperion
Axiom
Era Design
B&W
Canton
SVS
KEF
Mirage
Phase Tech
Totem
RBH
Mordaunt Short
Usher
Pinnacle

 

[RugbyJimmy]

Still Searching..

I am still searching. Heard a lot of good things about Paradigm and found these on sale (Paradigm Millenia 300 Floor Standing Speaker)

Opinions would be appreciated

 

[BoB/335]

Hey Rugby Jimmy,

I just listened to those towers a couple of nights ago along with PSB Imagine http://www.psbspeakers.com/ and Paradigm Studio 60's.

I thought the Millenia 300 sounded very clear and well balanced but lacking on the low end. I am looking for a good full range speaker to NOT have to use a sub with when listening to music. They were very pleasing to look at with a very small footprint.

The PSB was also very nice to look at. The bottom end was eye opening. After listening to the PSB and then either Paradigm you could hear how much more open and airy either paradigm was. I was told that the PSB uses compression to get a fale type of bottom end and that causes the entire speaker to sound much smoother and less articulate.

The Studio 60 was a very well balanced speaker with a good low end. I have heard much about the Studio 100 and what a great speaker it is.

I have also read many opinions on how the Axiom M80 is so similar in sound to the Studio 100 yet way cheaper. I have done a lot of research on this company in the last week. (I believe it was someone from this forum that recommended I check them out) The reviews are stellar. The company is very solid with a great customer satisfaction record. And I have spent some time on the Axiom forum.

I realize this is over your budget (it is over mine) but I think I am going to give this system a try.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/epic80_350.html

It should match seemlessly all being from the same company. It ships free and I have already inquired about return shipping which seems reasonable. I will probably start out with just the towers and build on it. They also have a factory outlet where you can get a discount on some "finish" blems.

Hope that helps.

 

[RugbyJimmy]

Thanks for the heads up Bob, I am going to be sure to do some research on the Axiom's