Reviews out of date?

[James Bethel]

So many of the product reviews are 2-3-4 years old. It looks like the only things getting reviews (and positive ones at that) are higher end and price. Very little if any of true budget gear. Wonder what one might deduce from such a phenomenon?

 

[Bucknekked]

So many of the product reviews are 2-3-4 years old. It looks like the only things getting reviews (and positive ones at that) are higher end and price. Very little if any of true budget gear. Wonder what one might deduce from such a phenomenon?

So many first time posters start with a criticism before they even say hello to the forum members or pause for a brief introduction.
Wonder what one might deduce from such a phenomenon?

I think if you look at any site, for any hobby with a long track record, the number of reviews for older stuff will outnumber the new reviews simply because there's more historical data than brand new equipment that can be reviewed every month. Reviews have a cost. Most of the time reviewers who bear that cost try to pick and choose equipment that will be of interest to the reviewers community. That cuts down the volume some. As long as I'm seeing reviews come out on new equipment on a regular basis, I'm happy.

High priced gear verses budget gear? Price is in the eye of the beholder. So is budget. Having read a fair number of posts and met a fair number of people on this forum, I would say the slant here on AH is definitely away from high priced gear. High price is a guarantor of very little by itself. Budget gear would be hard to define. Is $100 for a set of speakers a budget set of speakers or a POS set of speakers? Is $500 for a pair of speakers high priced, budget, or just a price point? For some, its a rounding error. For others, its the top of the budget mountain.

Context is king for numbers and statistics. Define the context, and then a lot of numbers and stats begin to fall in to their proper perspective. The AH forum is what you make of it.

 

[zieglj01]

https://www.lifewire.com/sony-ss-cs5-review-3135114

http://www.soundandvision.com/category/bookshelf-speaker-reviews

http://www.stereophile.com/category/stand-loudspeaker-reviews

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I don't tolerate boolshit much and for the a change I totally agree with Buck.
I don't want to sound elitist, but there's just a point below which stuff is just crap.
There are few exceptions to this rule, Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers, Sony Core and of course work of Dennis Murphy modifying existing (decent kit by Dayton audio) and making it a great speakers for only $210+shipping.

Honestly, anything below these price has been tested and found to be junk, time and time again.
Unfortunately AH had yet a chance to review most of these (except AJ Pioneers), but then they did - Pioneer is now the recommended speakers for our lowest bracket - 1k system.

 

[MrBoat]

To me, budget gear is waiting 10 years for the high priced stuff to fall out of favor so I can pick it up for pennies, throw a few more pennies at it while others support the brunt of the current market and the research. In that way, the older reviews are most helpful. I bought a pair of JBL (Junky But Loud, by some accounts) studio, consumer line speakers for $75.00 after finding a lot of good reviews on them from back in the day. It turned out to be a good score.

The other day I picked up an older Denon AVR for 50 dollars that is scoffed at now, but 10 years ago or so, there were people feeding their hi-fi habits with it when it cost a grand. It still looks new and has that new AVR smell. Again, I went by older reviews. It was a good bet based on that.

 

[shadyJ]

So many of the product reviews are 2-3-4 years old. It looks like the only things getting reviews (and positive ones at that) are higher end and price. Very little if any of true budget gear. Wonder what one might deduce from such a phenomenon?

To add to what has already been said:
What do you consider 'budget' equipment? Like Buck said, very context dependent.

Also, manufacturers submit their products for review. Publications generally do not review something that a manufacturer did not send them, so publications mostly only review stuff that they get sent. You might deduce from this that manufacturers will then only send the stuff they are confident will review well, ie top-of-the-line stuff. I am sure the manufacturer is hoping that consumers with a tighter budget will be looking at their lower-cost lines due to positive association of a good review of a higher end product.

I would guess that another factor is that the top-shelf stuff tends to have a a larger profit margin.

 

[zieglj01]

To me, budget gear is waiting 10 years for the high priced stuff to fall out of favor so I can pick it up for pennies,

The other day I picked up an older Denon AVR for 50 dollars that is scoffed at now, It still looks new and has that new AVR smell. Again, I went by older reviews. It was a good bet based on that.

I will still look and shop for older and discontinued gear off Ebay -- and I will still check some older reviews.

However no reviewer or designer plays the final part in my decision making. The all in all final test are the ears of the owner.

Enjoy your stuff -- I have owned several JBL speakers from the past

 

[3db]

I will still look and shop for older and discontinued gear off Ebay -- and I will still check some older reviews.

However no reviewer or designer plays the final part in my decision making. The all in all final test are the ears of the owner.

Enjoy your stuff -- I have owned several JBL speakers from the past

I picked up a Yamaha KX-800U Cassette deck for $40 which I would have never been able to afford new back then. Nice performing deck even now.

 

[-Jim-]

Hi James,

Welcome to the forum. I thought I'd chime in as I too am aligned with Buck & Bored.

However, I do sympathize with those who want cost effective audio gear. (I don't subscribe to the term "Budget" as it refers to audio equipment, as when used in that context there is a tendency to use it to make the gear involved sound cheap.) A Budget to me is the target for whatever you want to spend.

Newbies should always set a realistic budget for their system that they can afford. Sometimes that means buying a piece at a time. (I've never been a fan of using Credit for such "luxury" items. Save your money and have the cash on hand.) And as so many here will advise, buying used or discontinued gear is where the real bargains are. (Okay => the DIY crowd may see it another way for Speakers and especially SUBs )

Some will say below a certain dollar value new equipment is junk, and in general, that's absolutely true. And as inflation seems constant in our society, that dollar value for that point creeps up every year. One thing I should point out is that buying new audio gear is almost a logarithmic type function. What I mean is after a certain point, small incremental improvements in audio gear performance / quality cost more and more money for a given space. (Say a "good" system cost X, and to more it up significantly to the next notch cost 10X. To more up to the next level could cost 100X. And so on... You get the idea. ) At some point up that graph, a lot of folks won't be able to hear, or appreciate, these subtle improvements in sound. (And Ok, a lot of folks bank account run out long before this point.)

So when people say this piece of equipment is good (or bad) a lot of times it's their own personal experience at play here - and what their wallet (or wife -don't get me started there ) can tolerate.

I hope you have fun and learn a few things as you get involved with the knowledgeable folks here.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hi James,

Welcome to the forum. I thought I'd chime in as I too am aligned with Buck & Bored.

However, I do sympathize with those who want cost effective audio gear. (I don't subscribe to the term "Budget" as it refers to audio equipment, as when used in that context there is a tendency to use it to make the gear involved sound cheap.) A Budget to me is the target for whatever you want to spend.

Newbies should always set a realistic budget for their system that they can afford. Sometimes that means buying a piece at a time. (I've never been a fan of using Credit for such "luxury" items. Save your money and have the cash on hand.) And as so many here will advise, buying used or discontinued gear is where the real bargains are. (Okay => the DIY crowd may see it another way for Speakers and especially SUBs )

Some will say below a certain dollar value new equipment is junk, and in general, that's absolutely true. And as inflation seems constant in our society, that dollar value for that point creeps up every year. One thing I should point out is that buying new audio gear is almost a logarithmic type function. What I mean is after a certain point, small incremental improvements in audio gear performance / quality cost more and more money for a given space. (Say a "good" system cost X, and to more it up significantly to the next notch cost 10X. To more up to the next level could cost 100X. And so on... You get the idea. ) At some point up that graph, a lot of folks won't be able to hear, or appreciate, these subtle improvements in sound. (And Ok, a lot of folks bank account run out long before this point.)

So when people say this piece of equipment is good (or bad) a lot of times it's their own personal experience at play here - and what their wallet (or wife -don't get me started there ) can tolerate.

I hope you have fun and learn a few things as you get involved with the knowledgeable folks here.

100% agree. Especially on inflation part and rule of diminishing returns is very much applies to audio equipment.

 

[Pogre]

So many of the product reviews are 2-3-4 years old. It looks like the only things getting reviews (and positive ones at that) are higher end and price. Very little if any of true budget gear. Wonder what one might deduce from such a phenomenon?

I deduce that you weren't expecting some of these replies.

But yeah, as has been covered, there will always be more older reviews than new. The passage of time makes that a reality. When you say "budget speakers", to me that's around $200-400 a pair. to someone else that can be a totally different number. What is your true budget audio number?

 

[MrBoat]

I have found 'middle of the road' with regard to price as the best value pretty much across the board. It's proven true with my hand/power tools, the wood I used to build my boat, my fishing gear, my automobiles, household appliances, clothes. . . . everything.

 

[Diesel57]

While some will agree that knowledge is power and some agree that knowledge provides one with understanding but investing time here you'll get support and direction in deciding what is considered deduce, here's one thing that is budget friendly...AH MEMBERS, which is why one will be enlightened after there 1st visit...AH is a great place to agree to disagree...Cheers

 

[Bucknekked]

So many of the product reviews are 2-3-4 years old. It looks like the only things getting reviews (and positive ones at that) are higher end and price. Very little if any of true budget gear. Wonder what one might deduce from such a phenomenon?

Since the OP only posted one time and then flew the coop, I wonder if this was just a drive by shooting?
The OP hasn't posted since. His post wasn't really looking for information, just to raise a ruckus.
For you long term AH folks : does this happen a lot? Do folks just drop in as newbs just to stir the pot and then run for the exits?

I wonder what one might deduce from such a phenomenon?

 

[j_garcia]

Since the OP only posted one time and then flew the coop, I wonder if this was just a drive by shooting?
The OP hasn't posted since. His post wasn't really looking for information, just to raise a ruckus.
For you long term AH folks : does this happen a lot? Do folks just drop in as newbs just to stir the pot and then run for the exits?

I wonder what one might deduce from such a phenomenon?

People google stuff, drop in, then leave. Yes, drive bys. Nearly ALL people don't grasp how reviews happen - they don't go buy this stuff to test, they test what companies provide for testing. So just because you want a review of xyz product doesn't mean a given site will be doing it.

 

[Bucknekked]

People google stuff, drop in, then leave. Yes, drive bys. Nearly ALL people don't grasp how reviews happen - they don't go buy this stuff to test, they test what companies provide for testing. So just because you want a review of xyz product doesn't mean a given site will be doing it.

j_garcia
the point you made about reviewers only reviewing equipment that has been sent to them by manufacturers was a piece of information I had to look at in a new way. I always knew that reviewers don't buy or otherwise invest in systems and then review them. I hadn't considered however the effect of manufacturers providing systems to reviewers and how that affects the entire published article process. That little bit of information helped me to understand better how and why reviews are what they are in a clearer way.

There's an old saw. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". It certainly applies in our hobby it would seem.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

j_garcia
the point you made about reviewers only reviewing equipment that has been sent to them by manufacturers was a piece of information I had to look at in a new way. I always knew that reviewers don't buy or otherwise invest in systems and then review them. I hadn't considered however the effect of manufacturers providing systems to reviewers and how that affects the entire published article process. That little bit of information helped me to understand better how and why reviews are what they are in a clearer way.

There's an old saw. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". It certainly applies in our hobby it would seem.

I think classic example is almost any fancy speaker review on stereophoole. Measurements tell one story, but 1000 words of subjective review tell another. Guess which one marketing staff from company provides speakers for review could read and understand .... yeah, it's pretty thin line they have to walk to continue to receive equipment for review.

 

[j_garcia]

j_garcia
the point you made about reviewers only reviewing equipment that has been sent to them by manufacturers was a piece of information I had to look at in a new way. I always knew that reviewers don't buy or otherwise invest in systems and then review them. I hadn't considered however the effect of manufacturers providing systems to reviewers and how that affects the entire published article process. That little bit of information helped me to understand better how and why reviews are what they are in a clearer way.

There's an old saw. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". It certainly applies in our hobby it would seem.

Yes, but at AH, they make no bones about the fact that if it tests negatively, they will report the truth, which I much appreciate. So I think maybe manufacturers that know their reported specs might not stand up to scrutiny might not want AH to be a full reviewer lol. So the "hand that feeds" applies a little less here IMO. On the other side of that, mfg who are confident know they will get a fair and honest review.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes, but at AH, they make no bones about the fact that if it tests negatively, they will report the truth, which I much appreciate. So I think maybe manufacturers that know their reported specs might not stand up to scrutiny might not want AH to be a full reviewer lol. So the "hand that feeds" applies a little less here IMO. On the other side of that, mfg who are confident know they will get a fair and honest review.

Totally agree. I wish the industry as a whole would be more forthright. Problem is, it's become about money more than truth in audio. I think it says a lot that Bose used to go around suing anyone who gave a bad review. Seriously? They should be closed down for even thinking that's ok. Pretty sad that advertising money carries the load of exposure of our great hobby. I used to love getting a new S/V mag but over time, got tired of reading about the same praises given to every stupid piece of gear. Lame. It's like watching the voice. EVERY single performance is "you're a star" "you could win this thing" blah blah blah. AH is great, and love the no BS approach.

 

[Pogre]

Totally agree. I wish the industry as a whole would be more forthright. Problem is, it's become about money more than truth in audio. I think it says a lot that Bose used to go around suing anyone who gave a bad review. Seriously? They should be closed down for even thinking that's ok. Pretty sad that advertising money carries the load of exposure of our great hobby. I used to love getting a new S/V mag but over time, got tired of reading about the same praises given to every stupid piece of gear. Lame. It's like watching the voice. EVERY single performance is "you're a star" "you could win this thing" blah blah blah. AH is great, and love the no BS approach.

That was something I only learned recently. I bought into reviews when I got my Klipsch subs and the Deftech SM55's. I got a great deal on both, but reviews I read weren't all exactly accurate. The RPW 10's I bought were "powerful", and "musical", "dig deep", "great bang for your buck"... The smallest, least expensive SVS had to offer blew them away.

I've always loved music, good audio and nice equipment. For a while we were struggling financially, so I just didn't torture myself looking at stuff I knew I couldn't get. That's all behind us now and lately I've been finding myself with more play money and I got back into it. Started with the tv (ours was ancient) and it blew up from there.

But yeah, for a lack of experience with critical listening and not being familiar with a lot of the new brands I relied heavily on reviews. I had no clue what to buy. It wasn't until after I got here I discovered what I had was mediocre at best. Sometimes it can be a bit gruff and impatient, but it's always truth. I think this is the only site I trust for opinions.

You might not always get a flowery reception, or you may not like the answers, but there's no bullsh1t here. All the reviews and a lot of the comments are all backed up by science and careful measurements. I totally get why some companies won't submit things for review. You only do that here if you're confident you have a good product. I've learned a lot since I've been here, and have never been steered wrong. Right now I'm learning how to understand all those charts now thanks to a link from Bored. I feel a lot more confident with my purchases now.