Review: Integra 8.9 Receiver

[bombarde32]

I recently purchased an Integra 8.9 receiver, new, for $1,900 which is paired with:
Fronts - Paradigm Studio 60's
Center - Studio 690
Rears - Studio 20's
Sub - Studio 12
All speakers are bi-wired w/ 10 AWG except the towers which are bi-amped using the Surround Rears. Speakers are 8 ohms.
PS3 in via HDMI, VCR via S-Video, X-box 360 via component, Cable box via component. Unless noted all audio and video runs into the receiver. All audio to speakers (not TV) and all video to TV via HDMI.

All my comments that follow are personal observations as I don't have equipment to provide "hard" data.

Beauty: This receiver is not going to win any beauty awards. It looks similar to Onkoy/Sony/etc with buttons all over the front. Do not expect a clean look like Pioneer Elite. Personally I prefer this as if I'm by the unit I can quickly pick what I want instead of hunting for the remote. With 2 little kids you never know where it might be hiding. It weighs in at about 50 pounds.

Setup: Basic setup like cabling and wiring is pretty straightforward. The manual clearly diagrams bi-amping for those that have never done it and everything is well labeled. The 2 AUX inputs come in handy for those with lots of components. The unit has 3 component IN's and 3 HDMI in's. It has 1 component out and 2 HDMI out's.
My only beef is the screws on the speaker terminals don't come all the way off. This makes it difficult to thread 10 AWG cable in and if you're bi-wiring ... forget it. You'll have to put banana plugs on one of the wires. As on most all A/V receivers ... spades are not an option.

Configuration: The unit comes with Audyssey which I recommend for those without an SPL meter. It sets volume speaker by speaker more accurately than you can do it by ear. I personally turned all room corrections off and set all speaker distances, crossovers, etc by hand.
The unit is EXTREMELY flexible. You can customize each input for its own EQ settings (neural, THX Cinema, etc), set crossover points speaker pair by speaker pair (or solo for the center and sub). It also provides a LFE crossover if you prefer to go that route.
However, the flexibility to customize is also its biggest weakness IMHO. There's so much you can do it can be daunting. It also makes the manual quite large and hard to read. I ended up giving up on channel by channel setup just told it to always default to whatever was last used for the input being selected.

Operation: Operation is straightforward. My 6 year old does it with no problem. However, there is NO type of "AUTO" option. You have to manually choose if you want THX Cinema, DLPIIX Music, Direct, etc etc. There's a chart in the manual to help you choose the right settings ... If you can decipher it that is. My wife is learning but I had to show my kids the "All Channels Stereo" option. Anyone not inclined to learn all the EQ options will view this as a rather serious flaw from end user standpoint.

Tuner: This receiver comes with your typical 30 cent plastic antenna with black trailing cable that is found on even the lowest grade $100 stereo receiver at Best Buy. I wasn't expecting a top of the line antenna but for nearly 2 grand I hoped for more. I was so disgusted I didn't even hook it up. I have a new antenna on the way and I expect it will work fine.
The receiver is setup to handle HD radio along with XM and Sirius if that's your thing.

Performance: Overall I'm thrilled with how this unit performs. The power-on cycle is a bit slow for my taste but it changes between inputs quickly. It's playing in a 32x30 "square" that is 1/2 8' ceiling and 1/2 cathedral. The room is open to a hallway, 3 bedrooms, bathroom and master suite. In short - it's got to push a lot of power to the speakers b/c it's such a large volume of air to move. For "cinema volume" levels I push the receiver to about 75% and have no clipping. I had some Irish folk songs with orchestral backup. I pushed that slightly past the pain point (85%) and still - no clipping. So we're filling nearly 2000 sq ft directly, or through rooms open to the receiver, at theatre levels, for over two hours and this receiver just takes it in stride. I'm pretty happy with it. Though I would expect any THX certified unit to perform at the levels I'm asking it to.
In short - it's sending a clean audio signal even when it's taxed for extended periods of time.

HD Content: This receiver has a host of video corrections. Mosquito noise reduction, color saturation, timing adjustment .... a long list. I've been fortunate enough that I haven't needed them so I can't comment on their effectiveness. I have everything set to "Through" and it looks terrific. It's doing exactly what I wanted which is send it through without being touched.
The only exception is component video IN. The receiver does NOT accept HD content over component. That includes 1080p/1080i and 720. So I had to run my Xbox 360 directly to TV as my Sony Bravia accepts up through 1080p over component. It's not a deal breaker but it means I have to flip the TV between Xbox and Receiver.

Overall Opinion: Great "little" receiver. Does a great job of pass through on the video. Packs plenty of power and can deliver past my pain point for over 10 minutes w/out clipping. Extraordinarily flexible and customizable which may be a source of frustration for some. In the end ...I highly, and happily, recommended for someone shopping the 7 - 10k range for speaker setup.

Post any questions as replies. If I know, I'll answer. If not, I'll experiment and let you know. Just don't ask for hard data as again, I don't have the testing equipment for it.

 

[Adam]

Thanks for the review! I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and experience with us.

 

[bombarde32]

Update: Audyssey MultiEQ

Last night I decided to run the Audyssey MultiEQ automated setup (against my dealer's advice I might add) just to see how good this thing really is. I let it over ride my manual settings.

This is the first receiver I've had with Audyssey but I can say I'll not use it again. I silenced my entire house (A/C, running water, everything) and let Audyssey go with 3 measuring positions per the manual's instructions.

The first thing I noticed was the distance for each speaker was wildly off the mark. The sub was 19 feet off ! In addition, it disabled the crossovers and set all my speakers to Full Band. I was previously crossing over at 70 Hz.

Ok - So I'm not looking forward to this but I'll give it a try. Well, I popped in Wall-E which has a lot of good spatial effects. Those were "OK." They weren't as on target as when I manually set the speakers but they were 'fair.' The sub was effectively neutered. Even when Eve's rocket landed it bairly whimpered let alone rumble. The towers were attempting to pick up the slack but it just wasn't the same.

IMHO - If someone relied exclusively on Audyssey as gospel they would be very dissapointed with how things sound. Do yourself a huge favor and hit the microphone with a hammer as soon as you see it so you aren't tempted to use it.

The only slack I'll cut Audyssey is that it can handle up to 7 or 8 measuring positions and I only used 3. So maybe it would do better with more positions but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Adam]

It's pretty typical for those auto routines to set the speakers to "Large." The first thing that I do is go back in and set them to "Small." What I really like about the MCACC system that I've used on my two Pioneer receivers (I've never used Audyssey) is the auto setting of the equalizer bands. Maybe I got lucky, but my new Pioneer Elite nailed the distances and output levels for my speakers and sub.

 

[jostenmeat]

Last night I decided to run the Audyssey MultiEQ automated setup (against my dealer's advice I might add) just to see how good this thing really is. I let it over ride my manual settings.

This is the first receiver I've had with Audyssey but I can say I'll not use it again. I silenced my entire house (A/C, running water, everything) and let Audyssey go with 3 measuring positions per the manual's instructions.

The first thing I noticed was the distance for each speaker was wildly off the mark. The sub was 19 feet off ! In addition, it disabled the crossovers and set all my speakers to Full Band. I was previously crossing over at 70 Hz.

Ok - So I'm not looking forward to this but I'll give it a try. Well, I popped in Wall-E which has a lot of good spatial effects. Those were "OK." They weren't as on target as when I manually set the speakers but they were 'fair.' The sub was effectively neutered. Even when Eve's rocket landed it bairly whimpered let alone rumble. The towers were attempting to pick up the slack but it just wasn't the same.

IMHO - If someone relied exclusively on Audyssey as gospel they would be very dissapointed with how things sound. Do yourself a huge favor and hit the microphone with a hammer as soon as you see it so you aren't tempted to use it.

The only slack I'll cut Audyssey is that it can handle up to 7 or 8 measuring positions and I only used 3. So maybe it would do better with more positions but I'm not holding my breath.

With all due respect, you need to do a lot more research about how this works. MultEQ is super accurate with distance, I mean better than 0.1 ft, from the horse's mouth, but the exact number is confidential atm. The reason why there is such a great distance to your sub is because of the electronic delay within the sub. DSP/processing, filters, etc. If it saw it as 19ft, then I would leave it at that if you want your sub to be in phase.

Of course, that 19ft is from three positions. If you've read up on Audyssey, you would know that it is always recommended to use all of the listening positions available. Even if just one single viewer, is it recommended. In such case, I would do four around the vicinity of each ear.

As for killing the bass, yes that is a common complaint. Many people prefer exaggerated bass, and not accurate bass. If they allowed some additional user tweaking, this product would really take off.

just so you know, even SVS chose Audyssey multEQ XT for their own bass mgmt system.

 

[jostenmeat]

In addition, it disabled the crossovers and set all my speakers to Full Band. I was previously crossing over at 70 Hz.

This is a direct fault of Onkyo/Integra implementation. Audyssey in fact has been lobbying with them, in hopes of having them fix it.

So, blame Integra for that, not Audyssey. Onkyo/Integra sets to full range when the rolloff is found to be below 80hz. Sorry I didn't address this in my previous post. I have OTOH addressed this maybe double digit times just at Audioholics forums.

 

[MDS]

Operation: Operation is straightforward. My 6 year old does it with no problem. However, there is NO type of "AUTO" option. You have to manually choose if you want THX Cinema, DLPIIX Music, Direct, etc etc. There's a chart in the manual to help you choose the right settings ... If you can decipher it that is. My wife is learning but I had to show my kids the "All Channels Stereo" option. Anyone not inclined to learn all the EQ options will view this as a rather serious flaw from end user standpoint.

That is not a flaw because those are processing modes - not sound formats. Dolby digital is a format and can be automatically recognized whereas PLII(x) is a matrix decoder than can be applied to many different formats. The receiver can't know which processing mode to select automatically unless you take the time to go through the menus and set a default mode for each format.

You could set the default to say PLIIx for the Dolby Digital format and it will automatically choose PLII anytime it recognizes the source as DD. You are free to change it on the fly to whatever you want and if the setting is 'last valid' it will choose the one that was in use when you last turned off the receiver.

Nice review though. I think Onkyo does a great job at making even complex features fairly easy to use.

 

[bombarde32]

Audyssey Follow-Up

MultEQ is super accurate with distance ... The reason why there is such a great distance to your sub is because of the electronic delay within the sub ... it is always recommended to use all of the listening positions available.

Good points on the sub delay. However, all of the speakers were off by 2 feet or more so this is not just a sub issue. I think I left wiggle room in my original post noting that problems may have been b/c I only used three measurements. However, if using all the positions is that critical to accurate measurement the Integra manual should note it as such. I shouldn't need to research Audyssey on my own.

Last night I reset all the speaker distances to the correct distance, eliminated the tonal adjustments and turned off the room correction. However - I DID leave Audyssey's dB adjustments in place (except the sub) since I don't have an SPL meter.

Then I did critical listening to music and movie and believe it's the best performance I've gotten to-date. So, while I don't care for the room corrections, or neutering of the crossovers/sub (which appears to be an Integra issue) ... I will say the sound is more balanced Left to Right and Front to Back because of Audyssey.

So I'll update my review to say: While not an ideal substitute for an SPL it's better than trying to do it by ear. If you use this make sure you use all the measuring positions. Lastly ... if the sound isn't being placed quite right then try resetting the speaker distances which was a great improvement for me.

 

[jostenmeat]

Good points on the sub delay. However, all of the speakers were off by 2 feet or more so this is not just a sub issue. I think I left wiggle room in my original post noting that problems may have been b/c I only used three measurements. However, if using all the positions is that critical to accurate measurement the Integra manual should note it as such. I shouldn't need to research Audyssey on my own.

The measurement is not just the acoustical distance as far as speed of sound, but all other electrical delays that the signal encounters when leaving the Integra. I don't know what types of xovers the Paradigm Studios use, nor have a clue on how much the increased phase shift between drivers with steeper xover slopes might be interpreted by Audyssey. It wouldn't surprise me that this distance is calculated respectively to the time domain corrections being made.

Last night I reset all the speaker distances to the correct distance, eliminated the tonal adjustments and turned off the room correction. However - I DID leave Audyssey's dB adjustments in place (except the sub) since I don't have an SPL meter.

Fair enough. After all, Audyssey is more accurate than the typical RS SPL meter, particularly for the bass frequencies.

Then I did critical listening to music and movie and believe it's the best performance I've gotten to-date. So, while I don't care for the room corrections, or neutering of the crossovers/sub (which appears to be an Integra issue) ... I will say the sound is more balanced Left to Right and Front to Back because of Audyssey.

That would be simple level calibration. You can either calibrate for the captain's seat, or even it out to compromise for all viewers. For the latter method, AH has an article, How To Calibrate a Multi Row Home Theater.

So I'll update my review to say: While not an ideal substitute for an SPL it's better than trying to do it by ear. If you use this make sure you use all the measuring positions. Lastly ... if the sound isn't being placed quite right then try resetting the speaker distances which was a great improvement for me.

Ok.



edit: btw, I believe the stated tolerance for distance measurement is finer than .1x the finest adjustment available on the unit. With Onkyo/Integra, that's .5 ft, therefore, the distance accuracy is better than 0.6 inch.

 

[anamorphic96]

Jostenmeat really nailed it. You should really do some research at the Audyssey site. audyssey.com and look in the FAQ section. It explains things very clearly and why the Audyssey system does certain things. Specifically the sub distance and crossover setting for your speakers. The crossover setting is not Audyssey's fault but actually something Onkyo/Integra has chosen. Audyssey actually suggests you always change this to what your speakers are designed for. Typically 80 hz.

You should really spend some more time with the system and let your ears adjust. Audyssey really does help.

Another thing to keep in mind is once a sub has been eq'd it is pretty typical to have to turn the sub up a bit since you are not hearing the peaks in the room and hearing a flatter more accurate bass. The sub on my system is running about 6db higher since adding my Velodyne SMS-1. Primarily because I don't have the 13db peak at 50hz which was causing an uncontrolled tubby bass. Now things are tighter and more controlled. Since the Velodyne eq's was added I hadt to re run Audyssey and the sub's distance changed from 10 ft to 14 ft. But Audyssey is just compensating for the new EQ being in place.

 

[bombarde32]

Sorry, Audyssey on the Integra, still stinks.

You should really do some research at the Audyssey site. audyssey.com

No, I don't need to do additional research. Audyssey, on the Integra 8.9 setup per its directions, is inferior to what I can accomplish manually.

As I've clearly stated, I appreciated the dB adjustments and I left those unaltered (except the sub, which I put back to what I consider accurate, not exagerated). Their corrections created a fuzzy sonic image in my room. Restoring the true distances, reinstating the 70 Hz crossover and disabling the room correction corrected the problem and took me from "Ok" back to "great."

As I've noted in a previous post - The problem could be that I only used 3 listening positions and I freely admit that (though I believe it is an Integra/Audyssey problem and not a position problem). I'd also like to restate this is an Integra review, not an Audyssey review. And again, using Audyssey per the Integra directions, it is inferior to what I can accomplish manually.

I'm not attacking Audyssey directly. I'm saying that according to my ears, the Integra implementation is inferior to careful manual setup.

So anyway ... that's my 2 cents. I'll continue this debate as long as you want. But I know what I heard (and I have well trained ears). Audyssey, on the Integra, screwed it up.

 

[jostenmeat]

No, I don't need to do additional research. And I don't care how accurate Audyssey literature says they are. Or what time delays they are accounting for. Or blah blah. Audyssey, on the Integra 8.9, is inferior to what I can accomplish manually.

You didn't accomplish anything at all except for level calibration (thanks to Audyssey), and effectively putting your system out of phase.

To my ears: It is an inferior product that I beat with manual configurations. Whereas your thoughts are I didn't understand the product, or was careless in setup, and it was a good product ruined by operator error.

In the grand scheme of things this is a small debate since you can always undo what it did. I think we'll just agree to disagree on this one since you seem determined to prove it's a great product I somehow screwed up and I'm pretty determined to follow what my ears said was right.

FWIW, I have zero issue with the fact that you don't like it. There are those here who have a lot of expericene and knowledge who have also been disappointed by the product. It was your reasoning that I had issue with.

Beyond all that I think we can all agree: If you need to read up on a product outside the manual, the manual should clearly say so. If using all 8 positions is critical, the manual should state it as such. And if there's common problems the manual should point that out and say "You might want to check on this afterwards and tweak."

That's like saying that the calibration tools in your TV suck because the manual doesn't offer everything you need to know in order to use them. Do you think all Denon products suck? Well, many of their manuals do.

To wrap-up: As this is an Integra review, I feel 100% comfortable saying "Audyssey on the Integra 8.9 stinks (at least outside the dB adjustments). It resulted in a fuzzy sonic image and weak bass. It is inferior to what I accomplished manually. Should you choose to use it, expect to tweak what it did. This is particularly true in the bass department."

All codes and algorithms given to every manufacturer by Audyssey are identical, and that includes NAD, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Integra. From there, it's the implementation by said manufacturer. Denon steps up from Onkyo/Integra with better flexibility in choosing target curves, particularly with different listening modes, ie THX vs 2 ch. NAD can be said to go further with an additional target curve as designed by Paul Barton of PSB fame. That's just FYI.

It is entirely possible that it's better on other systems. It's also possible that some like the automated setup that Integra does. So enough with this argument about whether or not Audyssey is good. We have different opinions and neither is going to convince the other.

I wasn't trying to convince you that you should like Audyssey. I was educating you on some of your very mistaken reasoning, such as "incorrect distance".

 

[bombarde32]

See you around the forums ...

I don't think either of us is making much progress at this point. And I feel we're about to start word smithing and nit picking each other. Perhaps my posts haven't been clear in their meaning. Perhaps I should have just used all 8 positions and been done with it before posting a review.

AT any rate ... sorry if I got anyone worked up. See you around the forums.

 

[tsrobinson115]

Can you give some more sample question and answers. How great your info is! It really useful for me. Thanks.

 

[bombarde32]

I don't understand ...

Sorry - are you asking for more information on the Integra 8.9 or products in general? Speakers, records players, blu-ray ... ???

 

[drice]

Great Review... Thought I would add my 2 cents...

I have now lived with the Integra 8.9 for almost a year. Purchased rom a higher end A/V store at a discount (~1500) since the new models had come out.

Good - Great audio performance, fairly simple setup, been pretty reliable.

Bad - Needs a complete reboot every couple of months. The video out (HDMI) stops working properly. After cutting power for a bit, it seems to refresh pretty well.

As noted by other reviews, this thing runs hot even when it is off. I have a very large cabinet with an optional fan and I find that I feel better with the doors open to help keep things from burning.

I wish I could upgrade it to utilize the windows media and internet music capabilities of nettune. Makes the ethernet connection on the back pretty useless otherwise.

In the end I would recommend Integra to the person looking for multi-room capabilities with excellent audio support. The video capabilities are getting better and the more recent models might be more stable.

My suggestion to Integra is to offer a higher end support package. For a monthly fee, firmware updates (even small) will be available and potentially a little shorter wait time on calling for preferred customers. This would provide a nice annuity and help support more advanced options to take care of existing customers (who will refer more business to you anyway).

I recently purchased an Integra 8.9 receiver, new, for $1,900 which is paired with:
Fronts - Paradigm Studio 60's
Center - Studio 690
Rears - Studio 20's
Sub - Studio 12
All speakers are bi-wired w/ 10 AWG except the towers which are bi-amped using the Surround Rears. Speakers are 8 ohms.
PS3 in via HDMI, VCR via S-Video, X-box 360 via component, Cable box via component. Unless noted all audio and video runs into the receiver. All audio to speakers (not TV) and all video to TV via HDMI.

All my comments that follow are personal observations as I don't have equipment to provide "hard" data.

Beauty: This receiver is not going to win any beauty awards. It looks similar to Onkoy/Sony/etc with buttons all over the front. Do not expect a clean look like Pioneer Elite. Personally I prefer this as if I'm by the unit I can quickly pick what I want instead of hunting for the remote. With 2 little kids you never know where it might be hiding. It weighs in at about 50 pounds.

Setup: Basic setup like cabling and wiring is pretty straightforward. The manual clearly diagrams bi-amping for those that have never done it and everything is well labeled. The 2 AUX inputs come in handy for those with lots of components. The unit has 3 component IN's and 3 HDMI in's. It has 1 component out and 2 HDMI out's.
My only beef is the screws on the speaker terminals don't come all the way off. This makes it difficult to thread 10 AWG cable in and if you're bi-wiring ... forget it. You'll have to put banana plugs on one of the wires. As on most all A/V receivers ... spades are not an option.

Configuration: The unit comes with Audyssey which I recommend for those without an SPL meter. It sets volume speaker by speaker more accurately than you can do it by ear. I personally turned all room corrections off and set all speaker distances, crossovers, etc by hand.
The unit is EXTREMELY flexible. You can customize each input for its own EQ settings (neural, THX Cinema, etc), set crossover points speaker pair by speaker pair (or solo for the center and sub). It also provides a LFE crossover if you prefer to go that route.
However, the flexibility to customize is also its biggest weakness IMHO. There's so much you can do it can be daunting. It also makes the manual quite large and hard to read. I ended up giving up on channel by channel setup just told it to always default to whatever was last used for the input being selected.

Operation: Operation is straightforward. My 6 year old does it with no problem. However, there is NO type of "AUTO" option. You have to manually choose if you want THX Cinema, DLPIIX Music, Direct, etc etc. There's a chart in the manual to help you choose the right settings ... If you can decipher it that is. My wife is learning but I had to show my kids the "All Channels Stereo" option. Anyone not inclined to learn all the EQ options will view this as a rather serious flaw from end user standpoint.

Tuner: This receiver comes with your typical 30 cent plastic antenna with black trailing cable that is found on even the lowest grade $100 stereo receiver at Best Buy. I wasn't expecting a top of the line antenna but for nearly 2 grand I hoped for more. I was so disgusted I didn't even hook it up. I have a new antenna on the way and I expect it will work fine.
The receiver is setup to handle HD radio along with XM and Sirius if that's your thing.

Performance: Overall I'm thrilled with how this unit performs. The power-on cycle is a bit slow for my taste but it changes between inputs quickly. It's playing in a 32x30 "square" that is 1/2 8' ceiling and 1/2 cathedral. The room is open to a hallway, 3 bedrooms, bathroom and master suite. In short - it's got to push a lot of power to the speakers b/c it's such a large volume of air to move. For "cinema volume" levels I push the receiver to about 75% and have no clipping. I had some Irish folk songs with orchestral backup. I pushed that slightly past the pain point (85%) and still - no clipping. So we're filling nearly 2000 sq ft directly, or through rooms open to the receiver, at theatre levels, for over two hours and this receiver just takes it in stride. I'm pretty happy with it. Though I would expect any THX certified unit to perform at the levels I'm asking it to.
In short - it's sending a clean audio signal even when it's taxed for extended periods of time.

HD Content: This receiver has a host of video corrections. Mosquito noise reduction, color saturation, timing adjustment .... a long list. I've been fortunate enough that I haven't needed them so I can't comment on their effectiveness. I have everything set to "Through" and it looks terrific. It's doing exactly what I wanted which is send it through without being touched.
The only exception is component video IN. The receiver does NOT accept HD content over component. That includes 1080p/1080i and 720. So I had to run my Xbox 360 directly to TV as my Sony Bravia accepts up through 1080p over component. It's not a deal breaker but it means I have to flip the TV between Xbox and Receiver.

Overall Opinion: Great "little" receiver. Does a great job of pass through on the video. Packs plenty of power and can deliver past my pain point for over 10 minutes w/out clipping. Extraordinarily flexible and customizable which may be a source of frustration for some. In the end ...I highly, and happily, recommended for someone shopping the 7 - 10k range for speaker setup.

Post any questions as replies. If I know, I'll answer. If not, I'll experiment and let you know. Just don't ask for hard data as again, I don't have the testing equipment for it.