Review coming- SVS PB12-NSD/2

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psyopwak

Enthusiast
Just ordered a SVS subwoofer with the two newly designed NSD drivers. Will post a listening review in about a week for all those SVS fans and anyone interested in the new drivers.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Sounds good.

Do you have a ISD version to compare it to?

SheepStar
 
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Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Welcome to Audioholics psyopwak, and thanks for the heads up! I'll be one of 'em anxiously awaiting you review. Cheers.
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
Welcome to the forum, psyopwak ... ready for 20 questions ?

1. What is the rest of your system ?
2. Are you comparing to another subwoofer ?
3. Where in Ohio are you ? (nearest major city will suffice)

Ok ... That is three .. I exaggerated ... :D ... Seriously, have fun with this. :)
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
craigsub said:
Welcome to the forum, psyopwak ... ready for 20 questions ?

1. What is the rest of your system ?
2. Are you comparing to another subwoofer ?
3. Where in Ohio are you ? (nearest major city will suffice)

Ok ... That is three .. I exaggerated ... :D ... Seriously, have fun with this. :)
Geez...kinda harsh on the new guy, aren't ya? ;) Just kidding...a follow up would be informative.
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
Johnd said:
Geez...kinda harsh on the new guy, aren't ya? ;) Just kidding...a follow up would be informative.
My wife has family in Akron, Dayton and Cincinatti - and we live about 15 minutes from the Ohio border. If Psyop is good at this, he could be a welcome addition to the next GTG here ... getting guys willing to participate is never easy.

And Psyop, it is always good to let people know from what perspective you are giving the review. For example, if this new sub was in a secondary system, and your main system consisted of Genesis 1.1's and Quad Wilson X-S Subwoofers ... we would be REALLY anxious to get your thoughts on the new $1000 SVS.

But ... If your current system is an Onkyo HTIB, we might be a little more ... reserved ... :D

Ok ... I will try to get serious again ... knowing this info will help guys gauge what type of review to expect.

And we will be gentle. Really. :eek: ;) :)

Edit - Psyop has a thread on AVS, too - He is in Akron. BSheldon asked the same questions that I did, heh heh. And yes, JohnD, I know you are just busting my ... you can fill in the blank :)
 
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psyopwak

Enthusiast
I will try to answer a few questions here.

First, I did copy this thread to several sites. I was hoping? it would be interesting or informative to a larger audience. But I think many thought it was
a bad idea and consequently a moderator at another site deleted the thread altogether. I guess the main problem was that "everybody who gets a new toy wants to tell everybody about it" and there is no real objective review.

Another question was about my equipment-

1) Denon AVR-4800 used as a pre/pro
2) Parasound 5 channel Amp
3) Marantz DV-6400 DVD/SACD/DVD-AUDIO player
4) Arcam CD 72T CD player
5) Paradigm Monitor speakers for Home Threatre 5.1
6) Snell E-5 seakers for stereo listening

I will not be comparing the NSD to the ISD, because I never did have an
SVS product before. I did have a Paradigm PW-2200 that I will be comparing it to from my memory, not directly.

I fully undestand that this will not be an objective review, it's just an average joe review. I think it's right to state this. I will not be using test equipment or use double blind testing. My intention is to ask a few ordinary questions:

1) How the sub performs with really low freq effects, like the depth charge explosions in "U 571". Also, how well can it do music, as opposed to movies
for a ported, down firing, double driver sub.
2) How does it compare to the PW-2200, since they were about the same price. ie Low freqs, output, blending with main speakers, and tightness of bass for music and movies.
3) Is SVS really that good of a buy, since they do not sell in retail houses and do limited marketing. Paradigm is a good company to do that a/b comparison with, since they do tons of marketing and have very good r&d for thier products.

(Of course I will use a calibration DVD and a SPM to dial in the sub).

I really hope this idea doesn't cause an uproar, not my intention. Just pass on my remarks and have some fun. I have learned alot from the forums myself and think they are a great asset for consumers.
 
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psyopwak

Enthusiast
It has been a week and I decided to give my initial impression of the new
SVS subwoofer- PB12-NSD/2

It might be advisable to read my above comments, since I want to restate
this is not a truly objective review. Some will not find it useful at all, since I am not directly comparing the sub to earlier designs or units. This a casual review for average listeners.


I had some unexpected problems from the start which are not really any faults of the sub itself. The first of which is the size and weight of the subwoofer. It did fit into my Honda 2004 CRV, with the seats folded up.
I picked it up from the factory in Girard, Ohio and Greg was nice enough to help load it. I had a dolly at home, but unless you've got a strong friend willing to help you move it from room to room this is not the sub for you. It weighs around 125 lbs and measures 29.5 inches deep, by 26.5 inches tall and 19.25 inches wide. It is noticably bigger than a Paradigm PS 2200 I had used before. Getting it down the stairs and into my basement was...challenging.
Also the sub is not unobtrusive. Unless your living area is very, very large this sub is going to appear to take up much living room real estate. It probably will not have a good WAF at all. (Wife acceptance factor) If you have a dedicated home theater and can hide the sub behind a false wall, curtain or the like, that would be ideal. Other than that, you have a very big, very heavy, very black well built box to live with. It would probably hold about 30 beer cans or bottles.

I like to listen to music, more than I like watching movies. The split is about 80/20. So I wanted to cable the sub to my system with enough flexibiliy to
have it shine (if possible) with music, first and foremost. I read an article by Polk audio that makes a strong case for running the sub out of the front main line level jacks (rca) instead of the usual sub out jack (rca) of your receiver. This was an idea that should give good results if you do not have full bass management as a feature on your receiver. Since I do not, I cable the subwoofer this way.

The front main speaker line level jacks have a "y" cable that enable the signal to be split on the back of my Denon. The signal goes to my main front speakers and ALSO goes to the line level IN of the subwoofer. By choosing LARGE front speakers, and subwoofer OFF on my receivers setup menu I am bypassing the sub out jack altogether on the receiver. The subwoofer's crossover is now allowing me to control the GAIN and amount of low frequences I would like the subwoofer to reproduce, instead of the receiver. This setup also allows me to have the subwoofer play and integrate with stereo 2 channel listening, not just movies with surround soundtracks.

Now the subwoofer has four control knobs in the back. It has a gain control, a phase control, a crossover control (from 40hz to 120hz) and a subsonic filter contol. The last control basically works in conjunction with three ports. It is a subsonic filter set up for either 16hz, 20hz, 25hz or bypass. Each setting matches a port plug to be used to "tune" the sub to that lowest level.
You are supplied with two port plugs to allow just one port open, two, or three. I do not think this subwoofer would blend well with smaller satellite style speakers. If the speakers you have do not reproduce down to 120hz, than you would be missing sound in the middle frequency range, since the crossover range on the SVS stops at 120hz.

It also has both line level inputs and ouputs (2 pair), as well as speaker level inputs/ ouputs (4 pair).

After I picked a spot for the sub, and cabled it up, I used a SPL meter to dial in the levels. Once finished, it was time to play some bass heavy music.

I admit that I was initially disapponted with the subwoofer when I first hooked it up. I played a variety of music from Diana Krall to Seal. I used a great recording of Sting and also played a new music DVD of Peter Gabriel. The subwoofer sounded far to boomy for the tight bass music I was hoping for.
After corresponding with Ron of SVS, and playing with the subwoofer I arrived at these conclusions-

1. The placement of this sound is very crucial to the type of sound you will get, as well as the room acoustics and size of the room.
2. The subwoofer is loud and low (Two downfiring 12 inch woofers and a 600 watt amp), you HAVE TO fine tune it to get the best performance.
3. The subwoofer is very flexible, so you may have to experiment with hook-ups and levels to get good sound.

Once I moved the subwoofer about 15 times, I found a spot it did like. Once there, it really shined. It takes a while to do this, and also to find a GAIN and
crossover point that permits seamless integration with your speakers, but it certainly can be done. I found it best to use the subwoofers crossover and NOT bypass it. This really helped, in dialing it in to match my speakers.

With music, I keep just one port plug in. That reduces the boominess and it still goes low enough.

I will try to add another review every few days, as I expand into movies.
 
D

Davidt1

Full Audioholic
Thanks for the review. I was just asking someone on AVS forum to post his impression of his new SVS sub. Now I find your review. This is good timing. I have been wanting to buy an SVS sub forever (the PB12-NSD specifically), but I keep putting it off because I keep hearing that their subs are not musical. Now that you have found a better spot for the sub, are you happy with the way it performs with music? Please let us know more. Thanks.
 
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psyopwak

Enthusiast
Well it's been almost another week and I want to add some more impressions of the SVS PB12-NSD/2.

To DavidT1, I have listened to the following CD's and SACD's with the sub-

Jackson Browne, Sting, Allison Krause, Norman Brown, Boney James, Jessica Andrews, Seal, Charlotte Church, Diana Krall, Bruce Hornsby, Pink Floyd, Bonnie Raitt, Til Tuesday, Eva Cassidy, Huey Lewis, Joe Cocker, Creed, Coldplay, Eric Clapton and Bruce Springsteen.

The subwoofer sounds very deep and powerful, but I guess the most obvious thing that stands out with it is both a strength and a weakness with music.

It is difficult to place and tune. I think that using the built in crossover helps with this. Once I had it in just the right spot, about 14 inches from one wall and about three feet from another it blended very well with both my stereo speakers and my home theatre setup. If I did not have it placed well, it sounded very boomy. Also I have a wall carpet on one wall and the other is next to a doorway. That seemed to help.

I played the following movies- "The Perfect Storm" and "U-571" In both cases the subwoofer was very deep and very powerful. I could only turn the gain up about 1/3. Otherwise the bass became too pronounced. Also the port plugs seem to play an integral role in the sound, One plug alone, (in only one of three ports) gave the most seamless integration with my speakers.

Sure, I would have liked to have the older ISD driver to compare this new design with. From my review, it will not shed any light on those out there thinking about updating their ISD drivers with this new NSD. But I think the
most dominant feature of this subwoofer is the 600 watt amp. It simply is vastly more powerful than my older Paradigm PW 2200. Also produces a much broader soundstage that does not let you place the sub. In this regard, I do like this downfiring design.

More to follow later.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
psyopwak said:
I could only turn the gain up about 1/3. Otherwise the bass became too pronounced.

Also the port plugs seem to play an integral role in the sound, One plug alone, (in only one of three ports) gave the most seamless integration with my speakers.
Did you calibrate the sub at all to level-match it with your speakers? It sounds like you just went by ear, from what you say here.


And aren't the port plugs for tuning, to be used in conjunction with a switch on the back of the sub? (I don't know about your particular sub).
 
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psyopwak

Enthusiast
If you look back through my previous posts, I have the subwoofer connected via the two front main speaker out(s) of the receiver. A Y cable splits the signal between my subwoofer and main speakers. I calibrated as best as I could by taking a measurement by the front speakers first, and disconnecting the sub, then alternating to the sub measurement with speakers disconnected. I still found with room acoustics, and music vs movie soundtracks, slight adjustment should be made to the gain of the sub, remembering each setting accordingly. This afforded me the best flexibility also with the both 1) sub crossover in use, 2) stereo listening (with sub in use) instead of .5 track only.
 
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psyopwak

Enthusiast
Almost another week has gone by and I will add some final comments about this SVS subwoofer.

The last post was about SPL meter readings, which I think I answered the question and also the port plugs. The port plugs simply allow the user the have a choice between 3 low frequency floors. (The subwoofer has 3 ports in the back.) You can have 25hz, which is no ports blocked. You can select 20hz, which is one port blocked with a port plug. And the last choice is a 16hz setting
for really low movie effects and music. This requires 2 port plugs, with one remaining open.

I have positioned the subwoofer in the ideal location now. One interesting note is that my home theatre is in the basement and the floor has thick carpeting. There is some heavy drapery and rugs on the wall also. But I found that by placing a thick rubber matt ( about 1/2 inch) under the sub, kept the reverb effect from the concrete floor from occuring. This helped keep the bass much tighter, or so it seems. (The matt is like a restaurant kitchen matt, with holes in it. I bought it cheap at Home Depot.)

I think that this is a good choice for a subwoofer if you don't mind experimenting with placement. Also if you like the "where is that bass coming from" effect from a downfiring design and if you like very deep, very powerful bass. It also would not go well with smaller to medium rooms.
It simply will overfill the room with bass. The last thing someone already touched upon- It is very BIG! It's not going to win alot of wife points, and it will not go into a smaller room very well.
 
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ironmike86

Audioholic Intern
I didn't see how big your room is ? That way I know what you concider med-small
 
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psyopwak

Enthusiast
For IRONMIKE86

I have moved the subwoofer once again and it is now more into the middle of the room- (about 13feet from one wall and 8ft from another). It seems even BETTER sounding there with nothing around it. It is about 3 feet from the listenening positions, to the rear.

Of course I had to recalibrate it with the SPM and adjusted the gain on the subwoofer itself.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
psyopwak said:
For IRONMIKE86

I have moved the subwoofer once again and it is now more into the middle of the room- (about 13feet from one wall and 8ft from another). It seems even BETTER sounding there with nothing around it. It is about 3 feet from the listenening positions, to the rear.

Of course I had to recalibrate it with the SPM and adjusted the gain on the subwoofer itself.
Wow, that sounds like it's in the middle of your room. Can you post some pics? I was reading your thread over at AVS, and thought I'd bring it back here if possible.
 
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