Returning my SR6015 and just ordered the Emo

Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
I did notice there’s 10 bands of PEQ for the mains and center so I plan on manually copying filters from REW and my subs are already taken care of by MiniDSP. That being said out of the box with a quick Emo Room correction calibration it sounds great. The GUI is quite dated and reminds me of early 2000’s Denon products like the 3805 I had for years. It’s easy enough to navigate and I do appreciate the adjustable crossover slopes as well and the subsonic filter which can be completely disabled or left on. I mean I could do all of this stuff with MultiEQ-X but for $200 I would expect to be able to, honestly for a sub $1000 Pre/Pro I didn’t have super high expectations and I’ve been pleasantly surprised
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
@Pandaman617 hey on the back of your Pre-Pro, are those lil umm cover's over the HDMI ports? Looks like it? I've always thought all AVR's and or Pre-Pro's HDMI ports should come with lil pull out covers.
 
Benni777

Benni777

Audioholic
It’s cool they give you a little military discount, better than nothing. It’s a bit more than I wanted to spend but I can’t imagine getting into 7.4.6 for any cheaper. I don’t have high hopes for that amp but it’s only going to drive the 3 height channels so I’m sure it’s more than adequate. From what I can see it’s basically an AT-300 but in English if that makes sense.
Question: what happened to the Marantz SR6015? why did you return it?
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
Question: what happened to the Marantz SR6015? why did you return it?
As soon as I opened it after being on for any set amount of time (I couldn’t say it was exactly an hour or three hours as sometimes this would occur within minutes or at other times hours) it would power itself off and on in an infinite power cycle loop. It definitely wasn’t protection mode as it was only powering two pairs of Martin Logan Motion 4’s with my power amps taking care of the remainder of my setup. Once I set them a video of the issue they approved the return
 
Benni777

Benni777

Audioholic
As soon as I opened it after being on for any set amount of time (I couldn’t say it was exactly an hour or three hours as sometimes this would occur within minutes or at other times hours) it would power itself off and on in an infinite power cycle loop. It definitely wasn’t protection mode as it was only powering two pairs of Martin Logan Motion 4’s with my power amps taking care of the remainder of my setup. Once I set them a video of the issue they approved the return
Gotcha, that stinks. Hope it was a one off. I thought about getting that same model..
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
Ok guys so I’ve had the Emo MC1 for a few days. I also added a Bas-XA3 3 channel power amp which I’m using with an A6 and my Carver AV705 5 channel amp, subs are being handled by a MiniDSP 2x4HD. Currently I have 4 Atmos speakers but I also ordered 3 pairs of Emotiva A1 elevation speakers which I plan on nothing as top fronts, top middles and top rears. They arrive Tuesday. My sources are a Panasonic UB9000 and 900 (audio HDMI only with video going directly into my 65” LG C1), an Xbox Series X via e-ARC and an Apple TV which is connected to the MC1. First off, setup was simple and easy however I stayed up all night last night re-wiring everything into neat little wire looms to separate power, audio interconnects, HDMI and speaker cables as since I’ve had the MC1 I’ve had this high pitched ringing in my top rear speakers, since doing this everything is nice and silent and it’s a lesson I learned the hard way to do it right the first time instead of rushing just to play with my new toy. The EMO Q room correction is absolutely horrible, the mic can’t be stand mounted and they recommend you hold it in your hand. So I bypassed that and used REW to generate filters up to 500hz for each channel which has given me great results, the LRC soundstage has 11 channels of PEQ with the surrounds having a few less and the subwoofers only having 5 but with my MiniDSP I don’t mind that too much. The GUI is very simple but if I look at it as something I pair $870 shipped it’s definitely what I expected, I manually set speaker distance with my laser tape measure and then used REW to phase and time align my speakers to my subs. My crossover slope is 24dB as is my subwoofer slope, from the factory the subwoofer LPF is set to 80hz which I raised to 120hz and there is a 20hz subsonic filter in place which I disabled as I have meaningful output down to 15hz. With the blue LED display turned off and the Blue LEDs on both amps turned off I watched Lone Survivor last night with a few friends who are novice A/V nerds and they assumed my Carver was driving all the speakers as I didn’t find any audible distortion at sustained reference level playback volumes and am very happy with the Emo amps. In terms of two channel playback in “pure” mode which disables all EQ it certainly does what it advertises according to REW, but since I only EQ to 500hz I used the stereo mode with my filters in place and my pair of Mirage OM-6 omnipolar towers with dual 8” in tower subs powered by a 200 watt amp with the integrated low frequency EQ adjusted to the proper level and the gain set to 50% gave me wonderful sound from the new remastered Beatles albums on Apple Music via my Apple TV 4K. Gaming on my Series X is great which is what 65% of my use is and the native Atmos games sound phenomenal with plenty of overhead effects and immersion. All in all for a budget level build I’m very impressed, this is the first set of separates I’ve bought in YEARS and while I know there’s exponentially better quality equipment out there I’m quite happy with it. If I had any issues I had planned on returning it and just getting a 6700h from a local dealer but so far it looks like the Emo setup will be in my system for the near future.
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
Now I have the debate of 6 Atmos channels or Top front, top rear and front wides. Anyone have any input? I’ve heard material is minimal unless upmixing but since I have the free channels I’m going to use them.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I stayed up all night re-wiring everything…as since I’ve had the MC1 I’ve had this high pitched ringing in my top rear speakers, since doing this everything is silent…while I know there’s exponentially better quality equipment out there, I’m quite happy with it...
Emo processors are infamous for bugs. Watch for any other issues before that return-window is over.

The salient thing is you are TRULY 100% happy and not just trying to justify your purchase. :D
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
Emo processors are infamous for bugs. Watch for any other issues before that return-window is over.

The salient thing is you are TRULY 100% happy and not just trying to justify your purchase. :D
Absolutely man, I appreciate the input on the bug info. If anything goes wrong I’m just going to go back to Denon and grab a 6700h and use it in preamp mode. Truth be told I do miss MultiEQ-X to a degree.
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic Chief
Now I have the debate of 6 Atmos channels or Top front, top rear and front wides. Anyone have any input? I’ve heard material is minimal unless upmixing but since I have the free channels I’m going to use them.
I love your photo of the room, but to me those speakers seem to be in tight already without adding any more.

I've got a 5.2.4 Atmos setup and have it wired for 7.2.4 in my 240"L x 197" W x 96" High "games room". (~ 2625 cubic feet). I haven't enabled the 7.2.4 as I'm doubting the added benefit of the Rear Speakers. I do have the extra amp (my Denon AVR "only" has 9 channels of amplification), so it's probably only a matter of time before I cave into my curiosity.

Just a comment about AVRs, Pre Pros, etc., and heating. Back in Tech School, it was drummed into us that heat is a nemesis for electrical and electronic components. The rule of thumb was the hotter they run the less remaining life they have. (This is also true of electric motor and generator insulation by the way, as well as VFDs, TVs, etc. Another, even more pertinent rule was "never let the smoke out" :eek:)

Typically IEEE specs allow for a 40°C Rise of an ambient of 20°C. Above that degradation occurs. That's 140° F. At that temperature design life should be achieved. For every 10°C above the allowable 60°C it half life's the device. Now these are "rules of thumb" and not absolutes, but they guide me with every installation of electrical and electronic gear I work on. I have an infrared thermometer that I use to measure anything I think is getting close to warm. Even though my Denon AVR didn't get close to 60°C, I still put a couple USB powered cooling fans on it.
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
I love your photo of the room, but to me those speakers seem to be in tight already without adding any more.

I've got a 5.2.4 Atmos setup and have it wired for 7.2.4 in my 240"L x 197" W x 96" High "games room". (~ 2625 cubic feet). I haven't enabled the 7.2.4 as I'm doubting the added benefit of the Rear Speakers. I do have the extra amp (my Denon AVR "only" has 9 channels of amplification), so it's probably only a matter of time before I cave into my curiosity.

Just a comment about AVRs, Pre Pros, etc., and heating. Back in Tech School, it was drummed into us that heat is a nemesis for electrical and electronic components. The rule of thumb was the hotter they run the less remaining life they have. (This is also true of electric motor and generator insulation by the way, as well as VFDs, TVs, etc. Another, even more pertinent rule was "never let the smoke out" :eek:)

Typically IEEE specs allow for a 40°C Rise of an ambient of 20°C. Above that degradation occurs. That's 140° F. At that temperature design life should be achieved. For every 10°C above the allowable 60°C it half life's the device. Now these are "rules of thumb" and not absolutes, but they guide me with every installation of electrical and electronic gear I work on. I have an infrared thermometer that I use to measure anything I think is getting close to warm. Even though my Denon AVR didn't get close to 60°C, I still put a couple USB powered cooling fans on it.
It’s definitely tight in there! I put AC Infinity Aircom’s on the processor and all the amps as I figured it would extend their lifetime should the OEM thermal solution ever fail or not perform as engineered. I come from the IT industry and as with most electronics you’re absolutely right, heat is the enemy!
 
E

EBN

Audioholic
First of all, I have no experience with those units. I do know that EMO reliability is suspect and that after market support especially when the warranty runs out has a reputation for being atrocious. So personally I would not touch EMO products with a barge pole.

An AVP should cost less than an AVR. It is marketing issues that they don't. When active speakers with DSP become the rule, which they will, as the technical advantages and benefits are enormous, then I bet you will see AVPs cost less than AVRs.

What I really want is reliability. I am not tempted to buy a really expensive AVP because of obsolescence. I am on my fourth generation AVP in sixteen years!

I bought the AV 7705 because of buying a 4K TV and installed Atmos speakers. Support is also an issue. These complex units unfortunately require the support of a major player, and unfortunately put smaller players at a massive disadvantage. A lot of this can be laid at the door of HDMI, with it evolving specifications and HDCP codes.

So far the Marantz AV 7705 is performing well, and is still supported by firmware upgrades with improved performance. When I first installed it, it was buggy, the worst being occasional potentially speaker busting pops. A firmware upgrade fixed that. There have been other convenience upgrades. Last night there was 12 minute firmware upgrade. Much to my surprise this has fixed the slight noise issue. So when I shut off the AV 7705 last night, I noted the room was dead silent and I could not hear the previous very low level hiss. I have confirmed that today. How you can fix an issue like this with a firmware upgrade is way beyond my pay grade. I suppose they must have been able to change a gain structure some place.

So I will keep the AV 7705 until replacement is required for a significant change in technology, or it has to go to the recycling center. I should state that all my four Marantz AVPs are still working. The oldest is in storage as an emergency back up. Three are in use.

I do personally believe AVPs have a significant reliability advantage of AVRs, and I think you should expect that. So as the technology matures as it has, then the need for upgrades will become less of an issue. So we probably could well be at the point where AVPs are actually the more economic solution.
That AV7705 looks like overpriced junk! Even the cheaper AVRs measure better in most areas. Look the FR roll off 2,5db down at 20kHz, SINAD 75db is among the worst tested with tons of distortion 3rd harmonic dominated, poor dynamic range 15bits, tons of distortion and noise in other tests, tons of jitter. One would think he gets better engineered product with the higher price, but it`s very much the opposite here. Tuned by ear! Denon engineers must be laughing to see this when their 1000$ cheaper AVR beats this junk in every test. Lots of fancy features, cool sticker at the front panel, add few paid subjective reviews claiming it creates massive soundstage and extra detail over AVR so the customers are fooled. Marantz should be ashamed of selling this type of garbage!



I feel bad for @Matthew J Poes who bought the AV7706. Matt have you measured the unit yet if they have done any changes? It still likely has the old HDAM version which adds distortion & noise. SR8015 looked much better and is also Japan made.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
That AV7705 looks like overpriced junk! Even the cheaper AVRs measure better in most areas. Look the FR roll off 2,5db down at 20kHz, SINAD 75db is among the worst tested with tons of distortion 3rd harmonic dominated, poor dynamic range 15bits, tons of distortion and noise in other tests, tons of jitter. One would think he gets better engineered product with the higher price, but it`s very much the opposite here. Tuned by ear! Denon engineers must be laughing to see this when their 1000$ cheaper AVR beats this junk in every test. Lots of fancy features, cool sticker at the front panel, add few paid subjective reviews claiming it creates massive soundstage and extra detail over AVR so the customers are fooled. Marantz should be ashamed of selling this type of garbage!



I feel bad for @Matthew J Poes who bought the AV7706. Matt have you measured the unit yet if they have done any changes? It still likely has the old HDAM version which adds distortion & noise. SR8015 looked much better and is also Japan made.
The thing is a lot of that stuff is not audible. But does reflect shortcuts in engineering. Which does affect my buying but not because I expect to hear anything different. It's just for the money I expect better design. Which is why I'm grateful for ASR

But the truth is if you did a double blind AB test of all these recievers and AVR's and all factors were equal DSP and room eq all disengaged. In stereo and surround I'd bet my paycheck on the fact that almost none of us could tell a difference

I wouldn't go so far as to call them junk. Just the companies know this so they cut corners knowing we can't hear it. So I'm grateful for ASR and audioholics for what they do with measurements. So we can hold these companies accountable

But I say this to help owners who bought a particular unit and Amir gives it a headless panther. He's being hard on there design especially engineering choices. But he'll be the first to say a lot of this is not audible. So these owners shouldn't freak out and pull there hair out and throw it in the trash. If you love it enjoy it! Just understand what your getting though. That never hurts anyone to have knowledge.
 
E

EBN

Audioholic
The thing is a lot of that stuff is not audible. But does reflect shortcuts in engineering. Which does affect my buying but not because I expect to hear anything different. It's just for the money I expect better design. Which is why I'm grateful for ASR

But the truth is if you did a double blind AB test of all these recievers and AVR's and all factors were equal DSP and room eq all disengaged. In stereo and surround I'd bet my paycheck on the fact that almost none of us could tell a difference

I wouldn't go so far as to call them junk. Just the companies know this so they cut corners knowing we can't hear it. So I'm grateful for ASR and audioholics for what they do with measurements. So we can hold these companies accountable

But I say this to help owners who bought a particular unit and Amir gives it a headless panther. He's being hard on there design especially engineering choices. But he'll be the first to say a lot of this is not audible. So these owners shouldn't freak out and pull there hair out and throw it in the trash. If you love it enjoy it! Just understand what your getting though. That never hurts anyone to have knowledge.
Yes i agree for this type of money i would expect to see something different. It`s still nearly 2500$ costing unit and many potential customers must be thinking they get better sound quality over AVR and state of art product. But how it can be if objective measurements shows the opposite?!

These favourite youtube guys are claiming AV7706 sounds better than Japan made SR8015 with same external amps used and level matched. Maybe @PENG will tell us how this is possible? :D

 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Yes i agree for this type of money i would expect to see something different. It`s still nearly 2500$ costing unit and many potential customers must be thinking they get better sound quality over AVR and state of art product. But how it can be if objective measurements shows the opposite?!

These favourite youtube guys are claiming AV7706 sounds better than Japan made SR8015 with same external amps used and level matched. Maybe @PENG will tell us how this is possible? :D

Yeah totally agree myself that's not chump change and you should be getting better fir your money

As for the video expectation bias? There can be factors if the speakers are a difficult load and would benefit from better amplification so who knows. Wed have to know all the details of the test what speakers they were driving all those details are important
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes i agree for this type of money i would expect to see something different. It`s still nearly 2500$ costing unit and many potential customers must be thinking they get better sound quality over AVR and state of art product. But how it can be if objective measurements shows the opposite?!

These favourite youtube guys are claiming AV7706 sounds better than Japan made SR8015 with same external amps used and level matched. Maybe @PENG will tell us how this is possible? :D

Possibly because those guys don't go by bench test results but their eyes. They might have convinced themselves that they mainly trust their ears, without realizing their eyes might have played tricks on them.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
That AV7705 looks like overpriced junk! Even the cheaper AVRs measure better in most areas. Look the FR roll off 2,5db down at 20kHz, SINAD 75db is among the worst tested with tons of distortion 3rd harmonic dominated, poor dynamic range 15bits, tons of distortion and noise in other tests, tons of jitter. One would think he gets better engineered product with the higher price, but it`s very much the opposite here. Tuned by ear! Denon engineers must be laughing to see this when their 1000$ cheaper AVR beats this junk in every test. Lots of fancy features, cool sticker at the front panel, add few paid subjective reviews claiming it creates massive soundstage and extra detail over AVR so the customers are fooled. Marantz should be ashamed of selling this type of garbage!



I feel bad for @Matthew J Poes who bought the AV7706. Matt have you measured the unit yet if they have done any changes? It still likely has the old HDAM version which adds distortion & noise. SR8015 looked much better and is also Japan made.
Just for discussion sake, the AV7705's THD+N is about 0.01%, which is NOT audible.

The 3dB down at 20 kHz is not audible either since most of us can't even hear beyond 18kHz. Also, a Frequency Response deviation of +/- 3.0dB is considered normal for SPEAKERS. So even if the AVP/AVP is ruler flat at 20kHz or 30kHz, your speakers will not be flat.

The question is NOT SOUND QUALITY. These components can all sound great.

The salient question is - Is the Marantz AVP with the THD+N of 0.01% and a -3dB at 20kHz LESS RELIABLE than the Denon and Marantz AVR's that measure better? :D
 

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