Restore Vintage Boxes? Improve Them?

[Woody Stemms]

I've been using the same pair of AR-6 speakers since the early 70's. After 30 years or so, the woofers & tweets finally went bad and were replaced. ( Have no idea what parts or speakers were used. ) Added a 10 inch subwoofer about 20 years ago, which helped a lot. Unfortunately, the cheap plastic/spring connectors it had finally failed & can't be replaced. ( My receiver doesn't have a dedicated sub-out. ) Now, no big surprise, the AR's don't sound as good as they previously did. Given the improvements in tech and materials over the past few decades, could these lovely wood-veneer boxes be retrofitted with modern woofers, tweeters, and crossover parts, to substantially improve their performance, with or without a subwoofer? ( with or without the potentiometer in back ) I'd rather not wait for the current internal parts to fail. ( Don't want to try a DIY project either, ... my soldering sucks. ) The market appears to be flooded with bookshelf speakers, and "new" does have a seductive ring. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Kingnoob]

I've been using the same pair of AR-6 speakers since the early 70's. After 30 years or so, the woofers & tweets finally went bad and were replaced. ( Have no idea what parts or speakers were used. ) Added a 10 inch subwoofer about 20 years ago, which helped a lot. Unfortunately, the cheap plastic/spring connectors it had finally failed & can't be replaced. ( My receiver doesn't have a dedicated sub-out. ) Now, no big surprise, the AR's don't sound as good as they previously did. Given the improvements in tech and materials over the past few decades, could these lovely wood-veneer boxes be retrofitted with modern woofers, tweeters, and crossover parts, to substantially improve their performance, with or without a subwoofer? ( with or without the potentiometer in back ) I'd rather not wait for the current internal parts to fail. ( Don't want to try a DIY project either, ... my soldering sucks. ) The market appears to be flooded with bookshelf speakers, and "new" does have a seductive ring. Thanks for your feedback.

I don’t know anything about fixing speakers either can’t even solder, either ask diy section or replace them with something new.
are you saying they-lasted 50 years that’s crazy ? I’d say you got your moneys worth.
Could have a specialist fix them, if you want too for nostalgia?
If not modern speakers are high quality enough.

 

[TLS Guy]

I've been using the same pair of AR-6 speakers since the early 70's. After 30 years or so, the woofers & tweets finally went bad and were replaced. ( Have no idea what parts or speakers were used. ) Added a 10 inch subwoofer about 20 years ago, which helped a lot. Unfortunately, the cheap plastic/spring connectors it had finally failed & can't be replaced. ( My receiver doesn't have a dedicated sub-out. ) Now, no big surprise, the AR's don't sound as good as they previously did. Given the improvements in tech and materials over the past few decades, could these lovely wood-veneer boxes be retrofitted with modern woofers, tweeters, and crossover parts, to substantially improve their performance, with or without a subwoofer? ( with or without the potentiometer in back ) I'd rather not wait for the current internal parts to fail. ( Don't want to try a DIY project either, ... my soldering sucks. ) The market appears to be flooded with bookshelf speakers, and "new" does have a seductive ring. Thanks for your feedback.

It is now 2023 and so those speakers are around 50 years old. They were acoustic suspension speakers, a form of design that has gone out of fashion. In any event retro designing a speakers is a waste of time and effort. When you design a speaker you pick your drivers first, and then design the box to the drivers and NOT the other way round.

So, it is new speaker time for you. I think it is also new electronics time also. Bookshelf speakers are pretty much designed to be used with an active subwoofer. The reason is to increase efficiency/sensitivity. This sacrifices bass extension somewhat. Anyhow it is no wonder your speakers don't sound anything like they used to with different drivers. The crossover also has to be designed to the drivers.

 

[ski2xblack]

While starting with the box is bass-ackwards from a design perspective, I don't see why it cannot be done.There is probably a woofer among the gazillions available whose box requirements match the OP's old cabinets. There may even be a kit associated with such a woofer, eliminating the need for the OP to engineer something from scratch. So instead of designing from a blank piece of paper, cross referencing his cab volume with existing kits may be a possible path. At worst, it would be a learning opportunity. (And if I'm missing something, I'm open to learning too, doc.)

 

[Bucknekked]

While starting with the box is bass-ackwards from a design perspective, I don't see why it cannot be done.There is probably a woofer among the gazillions available whose box requirements match the OP's old cabinets. There may even be a kit associated with such a woofer, eliminating the need for the OP to engineer something from scratch. So instead of designing from a blank piece of paper, cross referencing his cab volume with existing kits may be a possible path. At worst, it would be a learning opportunity. (And if I'm missing something, I'm open to learning too, doc.)

@MrBoat
A friend of mine on the AH, MrBoat, has done a number of projects the way that @TLS Guy suggested. Go find some drivers you like, or a pre-planned speaker kit that suites your fancy, and then build it from there. Maximum flexibility and you can choose the most important aspect of the sound to your liking. You get brand new materials and engineering, and the most likely path to success.

Yes, you could probably reverse engineer a set of drivers to those old AR enclosures. And yes, you might be able to make them work. You will gain experience for sure. Experience is what you get when you are looking for something else most of the time. But that supposes the great sound of the old AR speakers was due to the boxes they came in. That's only a small part of the answer.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. I get it. But, having spent a lifetime in technology, a said truth is that tech moves on to a drumbeat of its own. I'm with Doc on this one, go find something new that you can make work and its highly likely you will be happier than retrofitting the old boxes. I bet someone out there right now has a kit that's designed to give you the 2023 answer to the old AR speaker line.

 

[ski2xblack]

I sympathize with the OP's situation. I own some super minty vintage speakers with gorgeous cabs that I would love to sound as good as they look. Few match Mr. Boat's over the top craftsmanship, I believe his builds will outlast civilization. @Woody Stemms should definitely peruse his well documented build threads.

 

[Bucknekked]

I sympathize with the OP's situation. I own some super minty vintage speakers with gorgeous cabs that I would love to sound as good as they look. Few match Mr. Boat's over the top craftsmanship, I believe his builds will outlast civilization. @Woody Stemms should definitely peruse his well documented build threads.

@MrBoat is awesome. Following his example will definitely be a step in the right direction

 

[everettT]

I sympathize with the OP's situation. I own some super minty vintage speakers with gorgeous cabs that I would love to sound as good as they look. Few match Mr. Boat's over the top craftsmanship, I believe his builds will outlast civilization. @Woody Stemms should definitely peruse his well documented build threads.

The real question regarding his great work is, when will he be turning out cabinets for purchase

 

[lovinthehd]

How about some current pics of the ARs?

 

[TLS Guy]

While starting with the box is bass-ackwards from a design perspective, I don't see why it cannot be done.There is probably a woofer among the gazillions available whose box requirements match the OP's old cabinets. There may even be a kit associated with such a woofer, eliminating the need for the OP to engineer something from scratch. So instead of designing from a blank piece of paper, cross referencing his cab volume with existing kits may be a possible path. At worst, it would be a learning opportunity. (And if I'm missing something, I'm open to learning too, doc.)

You are missing far more than you are not.

So first of all you need the box volume. Then you need to look at a vast number of drivers, that might possibly be a match, and most will turn out not to be.
Then you have to model each likely contender and see if it is a feasible match. Then you have to find a tweeter that is a possible match and also could be installed. Many will be the wrong shape and or size.

Then you have to modify the cabinet to take those drivers. It is highly unlikely they will be drop in replacements. Fitting will have to be done with hand tools most likely as you will not be able to get in your rip saw and router as the cabinet has a lip. In the end you will end up with a speaker with the tweeter in a less then ideal position to the woofer. After that you still have to model and build a new crossover.

In the end your measurements and listening tests will require a number of iterations of the crossover.

So it is far less work to design a new speaker from scratch, and cut new boards. Those are the steps you missed.

 

[Kingnoob]

You are missing far more than you are not.

So first of all you need the box volume. Then you need to look at a vast number of drivers, that might possibly be a match, and most will turn out not to be.
Then you have to model each likely contender and see if it is a feasible match. Then you have to find a tweeter that is a possible match and also could be installed. Many will be the wrong shape and or size.

Then you have to modify the cabinet to take those drivers. It is highly unlikely they will be drop in replacements. Fitting will have to be done with hand tools most likely as you will not be able to get in your rip saw and router as the cabinet has a lip. In the end you will end up with a speaker with the tweeter in a less then ideal position to the woofer. After that you still have to model and build a new crossover.

In the end your measurements and listening tests will require a number of iterations of the crossover.

So it is far less work to design a new speaker from scratch, and cut new boards. Those are the steps you missed.

I once had someone trying to convince me to make open baffles on a different site , once I saw how complicated a crossover was I jumped ship. They were so angry , but sometimes making a speaker just isn’t worth the effort. And repurposing an old speaker box is just that a big game of fit the drivers in the small box not optimized for them …
yada yoda not worth the hassel op just buy new speakers or have a professional fix them . I’d expect todays speakers to mop the floor with those old ones.
No pics !???

 

[ski2xblack]

You are missing far more than you are not.

Doc, whenever you dole out this sort of not so respectful insolence I cannot help myself from imagining you as a bellicose, slightly tipsy Winston Churchill. Agree with the rest of your post.

 

[MrBoat]

I sympathize with the OP's situation. I own some super minty vintage speakers with gorgeous cabs that I would love to sound as good as they look. Few match Mr. Boat's over the top craftsmanship, I believe his builds will outlast civilization. @Woody Stemms should definitely peruse his well documented build threads.

You steered me onto these diysoundgroup/Bagby Tempests. Nothing has really touched them in terms of SQ and just ridiculous power capability. They'll turn your eardrums to mush before ever audibly distorting. I have to choke the amperage to them because I can get drawn into them too. Just ridiculously clear and totally lost to the room.

The cherry is getting darker on them now, 5 years on. When I dust them I'm thinking, damn, these things are nice!

 

[MrBoat]

There is a lot of speaker kits online that tell the box size and there is subtle tricks to fine tune the size as well. A lot of information with proposed and discussed designs on diyaudio.com for starters. Parts Express posts the optimum box volumes with all of their woofers. I would start there.

 

[Kingnoob]

There is a lot of speaker kits online that tell the box size and there is subtle tricks to fine tune the size as well. A lot of information with proposed and discussed designs on diyaudio.com for starters. Parts Express posts the optimum box volumes with all of their woofers. I would start there.

wish I had the skills to make stuff like this . Lot easier then turning op speakers into econowaves .

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[TLS Guy]

Doc, whenever you dole out this sort of not so respectful insolence I cannot help myself from imagining you as a bellicose, slightly tipsy Winston Churchill. Agree with the rest of your post.

This is what you asked.

(And if I'm missing something, I'm open to learning too, doc.)

I just itemized what you were missing.

You remind me of the account of Peter Walker who had a guy ask him a question and then argued the toss. Peter said to him: - "If you are not going to believe the bloody answer, then don't ask the bloody question!"

 

[ski2xblack]

You steered me onto these diysoundgroup/Bagby Tempests. Nothing has really touched them in terms of SQ and just ridiculous power capability. They'll turn your eardrums to mush before ever audibly distorting. I have to choke the amperage to them because I can get drawn into them too. Just ridiculously clear and totally lost to the room.

The cherry is getting darker on them now, 5 years on. When I dust them I'm thinking, damn, these things are nice!

Thanks, man! But you really took the ball and ran with it.

 

[Woody Stemms]

How about some current pics of the ARs?

Soon ... later tonight.

The room's a mess. ( 192 sq. ft. main area, + 140 sq. ft. section that forms a fat "L". )

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[lovinthehd]

Soon ... later tonight.

The room's a mess. ( 192 sq. ft. main area, + 140 sq. ft. section that forms a fat "L". )

I appreciate the feedback.

Just curious what we've got so far in both cabinet/drivers. I'm more of the mind to start over again, but not impossible to continue to use your cabs if you really like them, and not particularly likely I think that your previous driver replacement was particularly original or even particularly good, so you may not mind less than ideal solutions. I have soldered a crossover with minimal skills.....but many kits can provide pre-built and particularly suited crossovers (I wouldn't bother with a generic crossover)

 

[Woody Stemms]

For those with morbid curiosity, here's a dose of senior-citizen Hi-Fi.
Speakers: AR-6
Subwoofer: Cambridge BassCube 10 - ( not connected now )
Turntable - Pioneer PL-514x $10 at a garage sale - Needed a rubber band and a cartridge.
Receiver - Technics SA EX-140 - Basic model - Don't remember where or when it arrived.
CD Player - 5-Disc carousel - Sony CD - CE 275 ... Makes some odd noises, but it still works.
Cassette Dubbing Deck - Sony TC WE 425 - Haven't used it in many years.

Not shown: Sony TCD 5M - For live recordings
( Willie Nelson & Delbert McClinton / Missouri State Penitentiary - 1981 , etc. )

The Technics receiver has A & B speaker inputs, but they can't be used simultaneously, so here's no way to use the sub now that the cheap-ass plastic connectors are bunko. They add insult to injury by shooting that little spring halfway across the room when the plastic tab fractures like a piñata. So very festive.

The next re-shuffle will probably include switching the 5-CD carousel for a BlueRay DVD player that's on hand

Been looking for another receiver, hopefully without all the home theater add-ons. There aren't many of the better 2 channel units with phono input, TV input, CD input, Tape input, and a subwoofer out. "Vintage" units were often pre-CD, and lack dedicated TV inputs. There's probably a narrow widow between the mid 80's and the mid 90's where I'll find one on Craigslist. Most new receivers are intended for multi-speaker surround media, and are even more expensive than the refurbished "golden era" 70 - 80's models.