Replacement for Onkyo?

[emcandrew]

Hi guys (and ladies)...

I'm looking to upgrade my AVR here before too long. Right now, I have an Onkyo HT-R557 and I like the sound of it so far. (40% music/60% theater)

I run Klipsch speakers (see sig) and believe I experienced some clipping today. Naturally, I jumpped on here to research and believe that the receiver might be underpowered for the speakers and causing clipping? Does that sound right? I had the volume up while listening to some hard hitting Godsmack and noticed an electronic smell which I read is likely the voice coil heating due to clipping. I wasn't sure though because my sub was bought new about 6 months ago and has really never been pushed hard like it was today.

So, I believe I read elsewhere that the Denon receivers sound great with Klipsch speakers (although I know it's speculative and a matter of opinion). What is the popular opinion on good receivers for the brightness of the Klipsch RF line? I love the way they sound with my current receiver, so if I can do better it would be amazing...

I see a lot of buzz on outgoing 2010 models going for great prices. What are some that I should be looking at for my setup?

Sorry for the babbling, I'm new to "real" audio and am somewhat out of my element.

 

[dapack69]

What's your budget? Room size?

I'll either upgrade to a better Onkyo or Denon, but need more info.

 

[Pyrrho]

You must be playing it incredibly loud for there to be any clipping. Those Klipsch RF-3 II speakers of yours put out 98dB @ 1w @ 1m, which is loud. And your other speakers have sensitivity ratings almost as high (97 & 96 dB). (You might want to do some online searching for information regarding loud noise and hearing loss.)

Normally, if you really need more power than a typical receiver, you should be looking for a power amplifier, assuming that your receiver has preamp outputs. If yours does not (which I believe it does not), you should look for a receiver that has preamp outputs for all channels plus whatever other features you require, and then, if it is not powerful enough for you, you can add on however many power amplifiers you need. And keep in mind, it takes a doubling of power to get a 3dB increase in volume, so don't bother with a low powered amplifier.

The brands of receivers I would look at are Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, and Pioneer (not necessarily in that order).

But before you spend your money, tell us more about this "electronic smell". Was it coming from the receiver or one of the speakers? Was it a burning smell, or something else? If, for example, it was coming from the subwoofer, replacing your receiver would be a total waste of money as far as your problem is concerned. So it does matter what was giving off this smell.

 

[sholling]

I run Klipsch speakers (see sig) and believe I experienced some clipping today. Naturally, I jumpped on here to research and believe that the receiver might be underpowered for the speakers and causing clipping? Does that sound right? I had the volume up while listening to some hard hitting Godsmack and noticed an electronic smell which I read is likely the voice coil heating due to clipping. I wasn't sure though because my sub was bought new about 6 months ago and has really never been pushed hard like it was today.

How hard were you driving those things? I'm asking because according to a quick Google search that receiver puts out 110wpc and your mains have a sensitivity rating of 98db. Were you trying to drive all 5 or 7 channels or just two? Driving only the front two you should have been able to reach painful volumes without clipping.

 

[emcandrew]

Thanks for the responses guys...

Room size is approximately 30' x 30' and my budget would be right around $1,500 for a receiver. Sorry that I omitted that.

I'm really not looking to replace the receiver just to be louder. I'm looking at replacing the receiver to get better sound, updated features (I'd like to be able to put 2 speakers outside and be able to turn them off; I think this is a second zone?) and now to help with the clipping issue (if that's even what I experienced). I actually do love the way this receiver sounds, but I'd be all for it if I could get better sound. I've tried a Denon receiver in my car when I was much younger and was really impressed with it. But from what I read on here, the Denon and Onkyo are pretty close to the same (sans the Onkyo heat issues on some units). I'll definitely be auditioning a few Marantz units as they're only about 50 miles away from me in Raleigh and their stuff looks top notch...

I very rarely "crank" the volume up. Nominal volume on this (because of spousal approval) is between 20 to max of 35 typically. I know volume displays are really relative and I had no meter. I can say this though, the volume goes up to 75 and I was at 50. This is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've ever had it up to 50 and it's always just for one song at a time. There are just some songs that you HAVE to crank! LOL.... I'll check my power center today as soon as the wife wakes up to see approximately how many watts I was pulling. I was driving all 5.1 speakers in what Onkyo calls "All Channel Stereo"... I also have the front speakers set to small as I understand this sets the internal crossover to push the lows to the sub instead of through the fronts.

I'm not positive that this thing was clipping. I thought the receiver was adequately suited to the speaker needs. The best way to describe the smell would be to say that it wasn't like a traditional smell of burning insulation, but definitely had that electrical scent to it. It didn't fill the room or anything, but it was certainly enough to make me turn it down. I'll try to identify the exact source today when the wife wakes up...

Thank you for your responses guys.

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks for the responses guys...

Room size is approximately 30' x 30' and my budget would be right around $1,500 for a receiver. Sorry that I omitted that.

I'm really not looking to replace the receiver just to be louder. I'm looking at replacing the receiver to get better sound, updated features (I'd like to be able to put 2 speakers outside and be able to turn them off; I think this is a second zone?) and now to help with the clipping issue (if that's even what I experienced). I actually do love the way this receiver sounds, but I'd be all for it if I could get better sound. I've tried a Denon receiver in my car when I was much younger and was really impressed with it. But from what I read on here, the Denon and Onkyo are pretty close to the same (sans the Onkyo heat issues on some units). I'll definitely be auditioning a few Marantz units as they're only about 50 miles away from me in Raleigh and their stuff looks top notch...

I very rarely "crank" the volume up. Nominal volume on this (because of spousal approval) is between 20 to max of 35 typically. I know volume displays are really relative and I had no meter. I can say this though, the volume goes up to 75 and I was at 50. This is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've ever had it up to 50 and it's always just for one song at a time. There are just some songs that you HAVE to crank! LOL.... I'll check my power center today as soon as the wife wakes up to see approximately how many watts I was pulling. I was driving all 5.1 speakers in what Onkyo calls "All Channel Stereo"... I also have the front speakers set to small as I understand this sets the internal crossover to push the lows to the sub instead of through the fronts.

I'm not positive that this thing was clipping. I thought the receiver was adequately suited to the speaker needs. The best way to describe the smell would be to say that it wasn't like a traditional smell of burning insulation, but definitely had that electrical scent to it. It didn't fill the room or anything, but it was certainly enough to make me turn it down. I'll try to identify the exact source today when the wife wakes up...

Thank you for your responses guys.

If you are wanting better quality sound rather than louder, you should look for better speakers. Excepting when driving the amplifier to clipping, or engaging a feature that affects the sound, you are not going to make much of a difference in sound quality by changing receivers.

 

[bandphan]

^^^ agreed with the above posts. You could drive those speakers with a 25wpc tube amp to LOUD levels. You may want to EQ the upper frequencies for music to see if you can get a sound you like.

 

[emcandrew]

Hmmm... Thanks guys... I just bought these speakers about 6 months ago or so... If what I'm hearing is that sound quality is as good as it's going to get with these speakers, then I'm cool with that... I love the sound...

That means that if I choose to get a new receiver, it'll be based on feature benefits like multi zones and better HDMI support....

I'll just watch out for the clipping or whatever it was for now. I didn't have the opportunity to turn it up this afternoon to see if I could identify the source, but maybe tomorrow I'll be able to.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you decide to still upgrade your AVR, here is a good deal on a brand new Denon receiver:

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR990-7-1-Channel-Multi-Zone-Connectivity/dp/B002AKKFRG/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1283740377&sr=8-14

If power is a concern in the future, you could add an external amp.

 

[emcandrew]

That does seam like a hell of a deal. Looks like it has all of the features I was looking for and half the price of my targeted budget.

 

[tcarcio]

Here is another good deal....http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5004/Marantz/SR5004-Dolby-TrueHD-PLIIz/dts-HD-MA-AV-Receiver/1.html

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That does seam like a hell of a deal. Looks like it has all of the features I was looking for and half the price of my targeted budget.

A brand new Denon at a Refurbished price?

Yeah, I'd say it's a good deal.

One time I saw amazon (I think selling via onecall) selling brand new DefTech Mythos ST speakers for 50%. You can't even get that price refurbished!

Anyway, I've heard some Klipsch towers before (can't remember model#, but they were higher models) and they sounded pretty good to me.

The important thing is how they sound to YOU.

If they sound great to you, then that is all you need.

 

[emcandrew]

Anyway, I've heard some Klipsch towers before (can't remember model#, but they were higher models) and they sounded pretty good to me.

The important thing is how they sound to YOU.

If they sound great to you, then that is all you need.

Yeah man... OMG I love the way my system sounds ... I can't imagine it getting better or needing it to be louder. I've been lost for many years in low bitrate MP3's and now listening to this and stepping up to FLACs, I feel like my eyes are open again. All of that being said, I realize that compared to you guys here, I know squat about this stuff, so I was reaching out to see if maybe a new receiver would bring out more quality that I may be missing with this Onkyo. That and the whole possible clipping thing...

So if I don't really need to spend my full budget on a receiver, I might split that and add a second sub.

 

[emcandrew]

Ok... So the wife went out for a bit HEHE...

Listening to Godsmack - Straight Out of Line at volume level 50.

My power center says that the system is pulling between 460 and 520 watts and the smell is perhaps easiest explained as saying "fresh vinyl" and coming from the port on the sub (which is the newest speaker). There's no real burning smell associated with it... Is it possible that it's still breaking in or something? I've had it since like February but rarely push it.

 

[Pyrrho]

Ok... So the wife went out for a bit HEHE...

Listening to Godsmack - Straight Out of Line at volume level 50.

My power center says that the system is pulling between 460 and 520 watts and the smell is perhaps easiest explained as saying "fresh vinyl" and coming from the port on the sub (which is the newest speaker). There's no real burning smell associated with it... Is it possible that it's still breaking in or something? I've had it since like February but rarely push it.

It is possible that there is no real problem, as when things are manufactured, there are often chemical residues. Heating those residues can, depending on what they are, create a smell that one did not have before.

Since it is coming from the subwoofer, if there is a problem, it is only with the subwoofer. But since it is not a "burning" smell, most likely, it is just that you are heating some chemical residue and that is what you are smelling. You might want to vent the room (i.e., air it out), to get rid of the smell, which may or may not indicate something that is unhealthy to breathe.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I did not read through all the posts in this thread, so if this was suggested by someone, my apologies...

Once more, I have to steer an Onkyo AVR owner to their unit's "IntelliVolume" feature; this "lack of overall volume" issue with this company's amplifier products gets brought up countless times on HT enthusiast/hobbyist sites -- just search this on AVS. If you're looking for the receiver's amp to seem like it's putting out more power and for it to appear louder at a lower volume number on the display readout (which is something I was/am after too, so I understand the frustration), go into the unit's "Source Setup" section of the Setup menu, and bring the "IntelliVolume" value of the connected source device (i.e. Blu-ray player, cable box, CD player) up well into the "+dB" range. For example, my Blu-ray player's input IntelliVolume on my Onkyo 605 is set to "+10dB" and I could probably go higher; but...alas...there are some things you must know about using this menu option:

First of all, if the receiver's volume goes from, say, 0 (min) to 99 and then MAX, like my 605 does, this assumes no speaker calibration values OR IntelliVolume trim are engaged past "0dB" -- once you bring any of these paramters beyond 0dB and into the "+dB" range, the receiver automatically compensates for that, and lowers the available maximum volume accordingly. While I don't like this mad: ) I can live with the tradeoff, which is on a well-mixed and engineered Blu-ray or DVD soundtrack, the volume is punchy and louder at a lower number on the display screen. Now, many will say that bringing up these values to "+10dB" or whatever does nothing because in the end, it's the same -- and that's true. But as I said, if you want the amp to seem like it's louder at a lower value, IntelliVolume can work. It's not really what it was meant for; the system was designed by Onkyo so that end users and installers could "balance out" input trim levels between components so one isn't louder than another when switching them...for example, if the Tuner is lower than the DVD input component, you can raise the Tuner's IntelliVolume to balance it a bit better, OR lower the DVD IntelliVolume trim. However, many Onkyo -- and subsequently Integra -- owners use IntelliVolume such as I am, and how I described, whereby the control acts like a power amp's "gain" making the receiver's amp louder or lower at a given volume point.

There is a whole lot more I can say about this, but that's pretty much it in a nutshell -- let us know if you tried IntelliVolume and what happened, or feel free to fire me any more questions.

 

[emcandrew]

Hmmm, I've never seen the IntelliVolume feature in my unit. No matter though, the volume at 50 was plenty of volume for me. It rattles the house and freaking neighborhood practically. I don't really need more volume, was just looking to make sure that I wasn't blowing my stuff up while having fun...

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Hmmm, I've never seen the IntelliVolume feature in my unit. No matter though, the volume at 50 was plenty of volume for me. It rattles the house and freaking neighborhood practically. I don't really need more volume, was just looking to make sure that I wasn't blowing my stuff up while having fun...

Which Onkyo model do you have again? I am almost certain all their AVRs (the separate ones anyway) have this feature -- it's under the "INPUT SETUP" submenu of the Setup Menu...

I, too, find "50" to be loud at that point on my TX-SR605, and that's WITH running the IntelliVolume at "+10dB" for my Blu-ray player's input; I was actually considering bumping this up to "+11dB" so the receiver would seem louder at a value under 50...

As long as you're not taking the volume to MAX -- and you'd be surprised how many Onkyo owners claim this on various HT sites, which I can't understand -- I don't think you would blow anything up...

 

[emcandrew]

I just looked again, I don't see it... Maybe because my unit is on the low end side (part of a HT-SP904 kit from circuit city). Model number is in my sig. That's another reason why I was wondering if I should upgrade to a better receiver for better sound.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-lXCcKuiNCHb/p_580HTSP904/Onkyo-HT-SP904.html?tab=detailed_info

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I just looked again, I don't see it... Maybe because my unit is on the low end side (part of a HT-SP904 kit from circuit city). Model number is in my sig. That's another reason why I was wondering if I should upgrade to a better receiver for better sound.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-lXCcKuiNCHb/p_580HTSP904/Onkyo-HT-SP904.html?tab=detailed_info

That's odd -- did you see the submenu option under the Setup Menu for "SOURCE SETUP"? I think it's like #4...

Let me check to see if that AVR has IntelliVolume the best I can -- or e-mail Onkyo's support department through their website...

EDIT: Based on Crutchfield's descriptions of the features, it looks like this unit doesn't offer IntelliVolume -- but I'm not 100 percent certain...

Yeah, my best advice is to get a totally separate receiver -- not part of a HTiB package -- as they're normally just better in so many respects; it's like the theory of separates doing better in a system, but applied to receivers when we're talking about them...a standalone receiver normally offers more performance features than these bundled packages...