remote control lighting questions

[unreal.freak]

I am in the process of building a new home. I am looking to add remote control to the recessed lighting and the ceiling fans. I have the living room prewired for three spots to be switched from. I also want to do the same for the Master bedroom, it also has recessed lighting, and a ceiling fan. I would like to purchase one of the Logitec Harmony remotes to use on the lighting and fans. I would also like to use dimmer switches at all three switch points in each of the rooms above. Is there anyone out there on the forums who has had any experience with what im going to do? If so i would love to hear what equipment you went with, and how it is working out for you. I have been looking at the Lutron Maestro line of IR dimmers. Im pretty sure i can find what im looking for with them, but im always looking for a better deal or a better way of doing the same thing. All advice is welcome.

Thanks,
Tommy

 

[TLS Guy]

I am in the process of building a new home. I am looking to add remote control to the recessed lighting and the ceiling fans. I have the living room prewired for three spots to be switched from. I also want to do the same for the Master bedroom, it also has recessed lighting, and a ceiling fan. I would like to purchase one of the Logitec Harmony remotes to use on the lighting and fans. I would also like to use dimmer switches at all three switch points in each of the rooms above. Is there anyone out there on the forums who has had any experience with what im going to do? If so i would love to hear what equipment you went with, and how it is working out for you. I have been looking at the Lutron Maestro line of IR dimmers. Im pretty sure i can find what im looking for with them, but im always looking for a better deal or a better way of doing the same thing. All advice is welcome.

Thanks,
Tommy

I have dimmers all over the place. I have remotes in the studio. I used the Lutron Maestro. When I first had the lighting installation done, there was more RF interference than I wanted. Lutron were very good about it and worked with me on a redesign, which is close to perfect. If all the dimmers in the house are on, then there is a faint buzz in the speakers, only audible if I put my ear up against them. The update is now standard in the Maestro dimmers.

SCR light dimmers are the devil for creating RF interference, even if they are along way from your set up. Your house wiring acts as a huge antenna. If you make a dimmer that makes no RF it is a lousy dimmer. Cheap dimmers cause a lot of RF and also tax your house neutral wiring, as a lot of dimmers are very non linear loads. We had a case near hear at the beginning of the winter, were the neutral gauging from non linear loads was so high it burnt the neutral right off the panel. The local artisans were puzzled, and thought it was lighting, but it was December and we had over a foot of snow on the ground and it was 20 below and colder at night. I got asked for an opinion and it was neutral gauging.

It sounds as if you are going to install a lot of dimmers. Don't buy junk or you will regret it.

I would not try and save a buck here. I can vouch for the Lutron Maestro now.

 

[MDS]

I use the Lutron Maestro too but have only one for the spotlight over my fireplace. I like to dim that light when watching movies so there is at least a little bit of ambient light.

The Maestro uses IR so you can teach any good universal remote the commands. Fans that have remote controls typically use RF so you'd have to use their own remote control. Lutron has all kinds of dimmers and fan controls so they might have a version of the Maestro or one of their 'whole house' systems that could be used to control fans as well.

 

[unreal.freak]

Are the dimmers you guys have making the noises even with a power conditioner? If so i guess ill have to get one in addition to the other A//V stuff. Thanks for the responses!!

Peace,
Tommy

 

[unreal.freak]

I just run across these while doing some browsing

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=15186&minisite=10024&Filter=Y&jfn=ZGE721B6E7782F0A7C3D5D70A76B531C61735A2BA1273F154EF085F1FB76A23A80C97740648BF04C0AE41508B7683CBFE0EE&oas=sNFy0JYvEwP2tcsBaQmvOQ..

I think they wouldnt require the remote to be pointed toward the wall plate in the event of operation. Do you guys have to point the remote right at the wall plate for the maestro series?

Thanks,
Tommy

 

[MDS]

I don't notice any noise from the Maestro dimmer even when I stand right next to it.

Leviton makes a lot of similar products but that Vizia dimmer is RF controlled just like most other dimmers and fan control products. You wouldn't have to point the remote directly at it but you also won't be able to teach a universal remote its commands - so pick the tradeoff that works for you.

IR requires line of sight to the IR receiver so in general you will have to point the remote at the dimmer. My wall plate is about 12 feet away from the couch and the Lutron remote works fine from that distance. The MX-350 sends a much more powerful IR signal and it will work the lights from even greater distances.

 

[unreal.freak]

You wouldn't have to point the remote directly at it but you also won't be able to teach a universal remote its commands - so pick the tradeoff that works for you.

I was looking at this remote for the Leviton lighting, but it is much more expensive than an ordinary IR remote. Im not sure im willing to go that route just yet. I can find other areas of my A/V to spend the extra $100 for that model of remote. Thanks for your advice, thats what i love about this forum. People always respond so quickly.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/remotes/universal_remotes/devices/374&cl=us,en

Peace,
Tommy

 

[MDS]

That Harmony remote will work if you want to teach it the IR commands from the Lutron Maestro remote. Harmony may even have them in their web database.

RF Universal remotes work by sending RF to a basestation which in turn transmits IR, either from the front of the basestation and/or wired emitters attached to it. No universal remote can learn RF commands directly.

If you buy a dimmer/fan that comes with an RF remote, you have to use that remote to control the dimmer/fan.

 

[TLS Guy]

Are the dimmers you guys have making the noises even with a power conditioner? If so i guess ill have to get one in addition to the other A//V stuff. Thanks for the responses!!

Peace,
Tommy

The power conditioner has nothing to do with it. The interference is radio frequency and radiated through the air to high gain circuits. I do use UPS systems.

The mains cables act as an antenna, but paradoxically the noise from dimmers does not get into your system from the power plug, but through the air just like a radio station.

Funnily enough a lot of the RF interference comes in via the speaker leads, via the negative feedback loop of the amp. That is why my speaker leads run in grounded steel conduit.

I can tell you if you install a lot of dimmers this RF interference is a real headache. I have 18 dimmers in my house. I have my wife and architect daughter to thank for that. Really dimmers and HT are not a match made in Heaven, so you have to be careful.

You are going to use a lot of dimmers, and the noise of each one is additive.

 

[MDS]

I can tell you if you install a lot of dimmers this RF interference is a real headache. I have 18 dimmers in my house. I have my wife and architect daughter to thank for that. Really dimmers and HT are not a match made in Heaven, so you have to be careful..

It is a potential problem. 18 dimmers is quite a lot! Your house is definitely 'high tech'. I essentially have three - the one Lutron Maestro dimmer for the fireplace spotlight, one dimmer for the lights on the ceiling fan, and a fan speed control for the fan itself. So far so good with respect to interference, as in none that I can detect.

I was about to go hog wild and put dimmers everywhere...but I'm holding off on that for now.

 

[unreal.freak]

I will end up somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 to 10 dimmers. I really hope this doesnt become a problem for me. i would really like to avoid having to trouble shoot a speaker noise problem if at all possible. Does the RF interference come from a specific type bulb used in the lighting, or is it all related to the dimmer itself? One last question, Is the noise you get from the dimmers something an average listener would hear or is it more of a nuisance saound for the ferfectionists like me?


Thanks Again,
Tommy

 

[TLS Guy]

I will end up somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 to 10 dimmers. I really hope this doesnt become a problem for me. i would really like to avoid having to trouble shoot a speaker noise problem if at all possible. Does the RF interference come from a specific type bulb used in the lighting, or is it all related to the dimmer itself? One last question, Is the noise you get from the dimmers something an average listener would hear or is it more of a nuisance saound for the ferfectionists like me?


Thanks Again,
Tommy

Oh no, you hear it alright! It is a nasty buzz coming out of your speakers. With my first Maestros, the system was not fit to listen to with more than three or four dimmers active. If even one dimmer on the big loads was active it was a problem. Even now if you run all the dimmers at their half way point, you can make the buzz just audible in the room.

If you use the current Lutron Maestro you will be OK. Just make sure they were manufactured in the last 18 months or so. Those are Carterized. If you are planning to use that many, that is what you need.

The dimmer is what generates the RF, the type of bulb is irrelevant. The power rating of the bulbs does have an impact however, and the number of bulbs is significant. The heavier the dimmer is loaded, the more RF noise it will generate. The two dimmers in my main living/kitchen area that are loaded the most, and make the most noise. You can see there are a lot of bulbs in a grid pattern here: -

http://mdcarter.smugmug.com/gallery/2467814_oiwUf#P-2-12

There is another grid pattern about the same size in the lower level. and quite a significant load in the studio itself. It is but these big loads that make the most noise.

http://mdcarter.smugmug.com/gallery/2467814_oiwUf#129446227

If you are going to use 10 dimmers and I have 18, and I'm OK, unless you have the bad luck of having a piece of equipment unusually susceptible to RF, you will be OK. That's assuming you use the product I suggest. With that many dimmers, I would run your speaker leads in grounded steel conduit though. Since you are building a new house, that will be easily accomplished.

 

[unreal.freak]

Thats alot of lights you have. You have a very beautifull home. You must have worked hard to have such a nice set up.
I will only have a total of 10 bulbs in my house that will be dimmed, 6 in the living room and 4 in the master bedroom. Unfortunatley the drywall has been finished for a few weeks now. So running the wire in metal conduit is not a option for me at this point. I guess i should have researched this a bit more before did the rough in for the wiring. I could still do something to the exposed speaker wiring in the attic.
The wire i ran for all the 5.1 and whole house audio is 14/2, pvc jacketed, inwall rated, nothing special about it. i guess ill go with it and if i get something i dont like through the speakers ill have to change something.
Hey guys thanks for the help! This gives me some good sound advice/info going into this stage of my project.

Peace,
Tommy