Recommendations

[ParadigmDawg]

Well I blew a woofer in one of my Paradigms Friday night. I am uncertain if I was pushing it to hard or what. I never heard my amp clip or anything; it just blew all the sudden at a level I play quit a bit. Remember, I am trying to fill a big room with this system (~8000 cubic feet) so the questions are:

1. Am I just asking too much for the Studio 40’s to fill this room at higher SPLs?

2. Is the little 659 just running out of steam and would an external amp help this issue?

My wife has about had it with me spending money on the HT. I get one more shot at a small upgrade. Here are my options at this point.

1. Upgrade to the Studio 100’s
2. Add an external amp
3. Add room treatments

I get to spend 800 bucks on this “final” (lol) upgrade so what’s a guy to do? The dealer is replacing the woofer for free so keeping the 40’s is free or he will take them in for the 100 upgrade

 

[AVRat]

The Paradigms are capable of a lot more than the 659 can put out. A good amp should solve the problem.

 

[Adam]

How's that RPA-1 looking now?

I don't know if it will solve your problem, but now that my replacement RPA-1 is hooked up, it reminded me of how much cleaner it sounded than when my Pioneer was powering all five speakers. Don't get me wrong, the Pioneer is a good unit. However, the RPA-1 just sounds more effortless. I'm no good at describing the details, but I've become a believer is having good amplification. Honestly, a higher level receiver would probably have sounded the same, but I wanted to try out a separate amp because I'd never had one before.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

So it looks like yall are saying the amp so far?

 

[Adam]

Greg, I'm guessing that there are a few places that you could buy an amp risk-free just to see if you can tell a difference. With Emotiva, you'd probably have to pay shipping if you returned it...but you could always ask them. There might be some local shops that would give you all of your money back, and you could always get something at Crutchfield. Perhaps you have a friend with an amp who lives nearby that would let you try it?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Yes, I am sure I could get something from my dealer but all his amps are really expensive. I just need to make certain that I am not expecting too much out of the 40's ability to fill my big room. I was about convinced that room treatment made the most sence but now I wonder if a lack of power is blowing my digms.

 

[Davemcc]

Try a couple of simple, inexpensive room treatment panels first. If it helps, then try a little more. Once the room is treated, you may find the amp isn't needed or that the room treatment allows you to get the full benefit of an amp.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

So far we have suggestions of room treatments and an amp. No one has suggested that I need to use bigger speakers to fill the big room. Some one else jump in here and tell me what you think.

 

[avaserfi]

If I were you I would look into getting an Emotiva LPA-1 and since you have 800 bucks that leaves 250 more for room treatments. From the looks of it those speakers should be able to fill your room at higher levels.

 

[Johnd]

I'm sure you realize that 8000 cubes is a HUGE space. You failed to give room dimensions, but if the room is 10'x100'x8', and you place the '40's at one end, and the lp is at the other end...good luck. Same goes for a 20'x50'x8' space. But there are variables. Most notably, if your lp is near a wall and the '40's are placed only 10'-15' from the lp. Well, you get the idea. Obviously, proffering your room dimensions, speaker placement and lp would take all the guesswork out of this.

But I think it impossible to "fill the room" with sound (with just a pair of '40's), unless you have a perfect anechoic chamber. And this seems to be your objective.

 

[abefroeman]

Try turning the crossover up on that sub. You spent all that money on that sub and you probably have it set at a crossover below 80 because you want to hear the bass from those speakers. I would try setting the crossover to 110 for music and 80 for movies. The crossover goes all the way up to 150 so you could play with it and see if you can get more volume out of the mains.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Sorry JohnD. Most guys that repond to me are familar with my layout. My listening position is 11 feet from my plasma and LCR with the sub being within the sound stage. The depth of the room as layed out for the HT is 20 ft deep and 25 ft wide with 14 ft ceilings. This all opens into a kitchen whcih is behind the listening area.

I have attached a couple of pictures here. One setting near the listening position looking at the HT, the other is showing what's behind the listening area.

I'm sure you realize that 8000 cubes is a HUGE space. You failed to give room dimensions, but if the room is 10'x100'x8', and you place the '40's at one end, and the lp is at the other end...good luck. Same goes for a 20'x50'x8' space. But there are variables. Most notably, if your lp is near a wall and the '40's are placed only 10'-15' from the lp. Well, you get the idea. Obviously, proffering your room dimensions, speaker placement and lp would take all the guesswork out of this.

But I think it impossible to "fill the room" with sound (with just a pair of '40's), unless you have a perfect anechoic chamber. And this seems to be your objective.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks Greg. I like the speaker choice by the way. The difference between "filling the space" (8000 cubes) and filling the listening area is huge.

If you can step up to the '100's, why not? They are phenomenal speakers...I don't think you'll ever be wanting (the '40's are great also). I would also agree that 100 wpc is not going to push either the '40's or the '100's. Not even close. I'm pushing my '100's with an available 170 wpc, and there is still room to spare. Mind you, I cannot listen to it cranked for any length of time...or I'd go deaf.

I would think your receiver and the '40's are fine for a medium listening area. But to "fill" 8000 cubes, I think more speaker and more power are necessary.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

The issue here is if I get the 100's I cant get the amp. The wife is dead serious this time when she says we are done spending money on the HT. (Well, she is still open to a PJ but nothing more for the audio end). The 100's without an amp is probably just "spinning my wheels".

Thanks Greg. I like the speaker choice by the way. The difference between "filling the space" (8000 cubes) and filling the listening area is huge.

If you can step up to the '100's, why not? They are phenomenal speakers...I don't think you'll ever be wanting (the '40's are great also). I would also agree that 100 wpc is not going to push either the '40's or the '100's. Not even close. I'm pushing my '100's with an available 170 wpc, and there is still room to spare. Mind you, I cannot listen to it cranked for any length of time...or I'd go deaf.

I would think your receiver and the '40's are fine for a medium listening area. But to "fill" 8000 cubes, I think more speaker and more power are necessary.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

That sounds like another good way to blow the woofer...

Try turning the crossover up on that sub. You spent all that money on that sub and you probably have it set at a crossover below 80 because you want to hear the bass from those speakers. I would try setting the crossover to 110 for music and 80 for movies. The crossover goes all the way up to 150 so you could play with it and see if you can get more volume out of the mains.

 

[Johnd]

The issue here is if I get the 100's I cant get the amp. The wife is dead serious this time when she says we are done spending money on the HT. (Well, she is still open to a PJ but nothing more for the audio end). The 100's without an amp is probably just "spinning my wheels".

Well, for now at least. You have not yet mastered the gentle art of persuasion?

I understand the dilemna. If the problem was mine, I would probably go with the 100's, particularly since you want to fill such a huge space, and when time and finances permit, upgrade the existing receiver. Patience is a virtue. The flip side is you have a great system for your listening area, and if you are able to resolve that conflict (space vs. area), you may very well satisfy your audioholic needs without spending another dime. Cheers.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I don’t know if this is a fortunately or an unfortunately but the finances are not the issue. We have been blessed and we are very thankful for that but she is done with this whole HT thing so I need this final 1K to be put to the best use.

Well, for now at least. You have not yet mastered the gentle art of persuasion?

I understand the dilemna. If the problem was mine, I would probably go with the 100's, particularly since you want to fill such a huge space, and when time and finances permit, upgrade the existing receiver. Patience is a virtue. The flip side is you have a great system for your listening area, and if you are able to resolve that conflict (space vs. area), you may very well satisfy your audioholic needs without spending another dime. Cheers.

 

[j_garcia]

I had the 40s in my room, 19x20 with high vaulted ceilings and open to the kitchen also, so larger than your room and I had no issue with them being loud enough, driven by the 8300 @120wpc. I'd go with an amp, not upgrading the receiver. If the 659 can't handle the 40s, it definitely won't handle the 100s.

 

[avaserfi]

I had the 40s in my room, 19x20 with high vaulted ceilings and open to the kitchen also, so larger than your room and I had no issue with them being loud enough, driven by the 8300 @120wpc. I'd go with an amp, not upgrading the receiver. If the 659 can't handle the 40s, it definitely won't handle the 100s.

Sounds like you can do what I said and get the amp, LPA-1, plus some treatments with your budget ...You know you want to!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Ok; I am thinking of the RPA1. Is this what you would do; add an external 2 channel amp and let the AVR handle the center and surrounds?

I had the 40s in my room, 19x20 with high vaulted ceilings and open to the kitchen also, so larger than your room and I had no issue with them being loud enough, driven by the 8300 @120wpc. I'd go with an amp, not upgrading the reciever.