Recommendations for HT system transitioning from Pro-Audio Gear

S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
I am slowly building a HT system and would like some speaker recommendations. I do not anticipate upgrading beyond a 5.1 system. Seventy percent of the time I use this system, I would be listening to music rather than watching DVDs or DirecTV DVR. My system is in a room that measures 15' X 20' with cathedral ceilings. I currently am using Pro-Audio gear for speakers and am looking to upgrade to home theater speakers. The equipment I use currently includes a Anthem AVM-30 preamp/processor with two Mackie SRM450s (powered biamped 400watt) and two Mackie SWA-1501 powered subwoofers (powered 600watt). I purchased a Anthem P2 power amp to power a pair of front speakers to be purchased soon. (At which time I will transition the SRM450s to serve as surrounds while maintaining the SWA1501 as subwoofers) The list of new front speakers I am considering for the Anthem P2 include (In current order of preference):
- Paradigm Signature S4
- B & W 804
- Axiom M80ti
- Definitive Technology BP7000SC
- PSB Stratus Gold

Thanks for any recommendations.
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
The Paradigm, PSB, & B&W are all a large step above the Def-Tech & Axiom choices IMHO. If it were my money it'd be a race between the PSB Platinum series (not the stratus series) and the Paradigm Signatures, as I'm not B&W's biggest fan.
 
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
Would you buy a PSB Platinum T6 under these conditions

Rock&Roll Ninja

Would you still recommend PSB Platinum T6 as highly as the Paradigm S4 if the only authorized dealer with a pair available
1) Required a 240 mile round trip to access PSB Platinum dealer from home
2) PSB dealer has only one T6 pair available without box
3) to access Paradigm Signature dealer requires only a 40 mile round trip
4) Paradigm Signature dealer has all Signature models in stock
5) Paradigm Signature dealer provided you your Anthem AVM-30 pre/pro and P2 amp

and

6) PSB Platinum T6 cost exactly the same as Paradigm S4 bookshelf speaker with matching stands?
 
W

westcott

Audioholic General
Are you trying to match speakers?

I am a little confused. Are you going to try to match speakers you already have?

If so, what kind of efficiency numbers do your present front speakers have?

I would try to stick to the same mfr for the front three speakers if possible, with same efficiency as another consideration.
 
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
Hi westcott.

westcott said:
I am a little confused. Are you going to try to match speakers you already have?
Sorry for the confusion. Yes I am trying to match existing Pro-Audio speakers but with goal toward transitioning from a "hybrid ProAudio/Home Audio" system to a high quality home audio system. The schedule I plan on taking in building my AV system are:
1. Purchase pair of front speakers to be driven by Anthem P2. I would rearrange my ProAudio speakers by moving the two Mackie SRM 450s (powered) to serve as surrounds while keeping the two powered Mackie SWA 1501s as subwoofers. At this point I would also need a home audio rack to install growing home audio gear and future acquisition of center speaker.
2. Within the next 6 months I was considering purchasing either the Anthem MCA50 (5x180watt) or the Sunfire Cinema Grand 200-five to drive three new home audio speakers, a center channel speaker that can support a 180/200watt amp and two surround speakers that can support 360/400 watt amp. Retire Mackie SRM 450s to closet.
3. After retiring SRM450s, within 6 months, purchase one or two powered home audio subwoofer(s) to replace two Mackie SWA 1501s. I will start collecting home audio subwoofer candidates at this time including any new subwoofers recently introduced into the market.


westcott said:
If so, what kind of efficiency numbers do your present front speakers have?
Mackie SRM documentation from Mackie website:
Mackie SRM specifications
Mackie SWA1501 subwoofer website documentation
Mackie SWA 1501 spec sheet

westcott said:
I would try to stick to the same mfr for the front three speakers if possible, with same efficiency as another consideration.

Thanks for the advice. Paradigm S4 dealer also made the same recommendation. Given my upgrade schedule, I am trying to find out what front speakers I should purchase to pair with the P2 while not sounding too bad with the Pro Audio Mackie speakers for the next 6 to 12 months. I know it may seem like a long time to build a AV system but at least I will be able to fend off AV upgraditis for 1 year.

:D :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
Opportunity for Pro-Audio vs Home Audio shootout????

Based on current responses I have received on this forum I believe the best front home audio speakers I could get from this list of candidates:
- Paradigm Signature S4
- B & W 804
- Axiom M80ti
- Definitive Technology BP7000SC
- PSB Platinum T6

are a pair of Signature S4s. I would be interested has there ever been a "shoot-out" comparison made between Pro-Audio gear and Home-audio gear? Has any audiophile magazine published an article? I expect based on reviews I have read on this forum and avsforum that the S4s will sound better if not louder than the Mackie SRM 450s when presented with the same audio signal from the Anthem AVM30. If I am surprised to find the Mackie SRM 450s sound better (based on my subjective untrained ears) I could change my home-audio upgrade schedule by moving the S4s to function as surrounds and purchase a Pro-Audio Mackie H626 to serve as a center channel for the SRM450s.

Mackie HR626 Monitor speaker

What DVDs/CDs would generate good audio signals for comparing this Pro-Audio gear and Paradigm S4s? Audio Equipment I would have for this test include:

- Anthem AVM30
- Anthem P2
- Denon 2910
- Paradigm S4 (currently the best front speaker recommendation I have received from list above)
- Mackie SRM 450
- Mackie SWA1501 (as powered subwoofers which I may have to disconnect during test to avoid influencing independent (and blindfolded?) appraisal of S4s performance)

Ideally I would locate an audiophile who writes for a Sterophile or some other audiophile magazine to setup and run this test but I may be able to get recomendations from this forum. I believe I would need to acquire a SPL meter (Radio Shack??) to compare the audio signal strength for these speakers. Any other suggestions??
 
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
Horn speakers and live performances
Yesterday I made an 80 mile round trip to hear Paradigm S4 and Paradigm Studio 100 speakers with my collection of SACDs in hand. I would have gone to my local Paradigm dealer if he had Studio 100s in stock.

I first went to the showroom with Paradigm S4s. I listened to Eric Clapton's "Key To The Highway" off the "Layla" CD and several tracks from Buddy Guy's "DJ Play My Blues" CD. I was disappointed when I noticed that the S4s seemed to muffle the high frequencies in comparison to the Mackie SRM450s. I noticed the same muffled high frequency when I played the same tracks on another system in another showroom with Studio 100s. These speakers did not produce the sound I was accustomed to hearing on stages or in the audience of live performances where admittedly all music was amplified via high wattage PA amps with horn drivers.

When I expressed my opinion to the dealer he told me that most home-audio speakers would not be able to approach the same sound of live performances unless they were also equipped with horn drivers. He then allowed me to listen to the same CD tracks on another system with Klipsch Reference RF7s.

I was floored by how much Klipsch RF7 speakers sounded like my Mackie SRM450s at home. Then I was surprised to find that they are 33% less than the cost of S4s. Now I am considering Klipsch Heresy II from their Heritage line or the Klipsch RF7s for my front speakers to be driven by the Anthem P2.

I have read many posts on audiophile forums that have claimed that Klipsch horn speakers, especially the lines below the Reference line (e.g. Synergy), are too bright. I would be curious to see the results of a survey among pro/amateur rock musicians where they were posed the question "Do horn speakers like the Klipsch RF7 produce a sound that is too bright for home audio?"

Now I need to find a dealer who has Klipsch Heresy II in stock for a demo. I think I have found my "dream" home-audio front speakers in one of these Klipsch speaker models. :D
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
As far as I know, Klipsch doesn't make the Hereseys, Klipschorns, La Scallas, or Belle Klispch any more. They're just on the reference to their....herritage. You might be able to find some older used Klipsch speakers on AudiogoN though. If not, then go for the RF-7.
 
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
jaxvon said:
As far as I know, Klipsch doesn't make the Hereseys, Klipschorns, La Scallas, or Belle Klispch any more. They're just on the reference to their....herritage. You might be able to find some older used Klipsch speakers on AudiogoN though. If not, then go for the RF-7.
I contacted a local Klipsch dealer regarding a demo of the Heritage line and he said they are all available for demos in a showroom at the Klipsch world headquarters in Indianapolis. I guess I will be taking a day of vacation in the next week for the 3 hour round trip.
 
Hanse18

Hanse18

Audioholic
Sonic Stasher said:
I contacted a local Klipsch dealer regarding a demo of the Heritage line and he said they are all available for demos in a showroom at the Klipsch world headquarters in Indianapolis. I guess I will be taking a day of vacation in the next week for the 3 hour round trip.
Pretty lucky that their HQ is within a day's reach. I found it funny that you converted to klipsch, because I had noticed you were NOT considering klipsch speakers when I started reading your thread. I have only heard the RF-7's and the La Scalas in stereo mode. The RF-7's are awesome, but the La Scalas blow me away every time I hear them. They are used by my school in the music department, so it is mostly classical and jazz. Choir performances are heard in ways never before experienced. In no other speaker system have I been able to distinguish 4-8 part harmonies as easily as with the La Scalas. Everything from the soprano high notes to the deepest bass notes are crystal clear. I don't think you can go wrong with anything from the reference line.

btw, will your conversion to Klipsch affect your amp selection at all? I know some people run K-Horns off tube amps, but I don't know if that applies to the heresys as well, or if it is even necessary in the first place.
 
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
Hanse18

Thanks for your comments regarding your experiences with Klipsch speakers.

I originally was considering Paradigm S4 speaker after listening to demos of S2, S8s and Studio 60s at a local Paradigm dealer. I did not provide the music or have any control over the tone settings the dealer used for this short demo. This first demo of Paradigm speakers occurred after I had listened to PSB and Thiel speakers at various HiFi stores. The Paradigm speakers were at that time the best home audio speakers I had heard. I was not able to perform a side by side comparison of these speakers and speakers equipped with horns such as my Mackies. After this first Paradigm speaker demo I purchased the AVM30 from the same dealer.

Several weeks later I purchased Anthem's P2 amplifier from the same dealer to power the HT front speakers to be purchased later. As the weeks passed I continued reading reviews and forum posts regarding Paradigm speakers to confirm that these speakers were the best home audio speakers I could get for my budget.

I was intending on deciding between the Studio 100s and S4s when I entered Ovation Audio's showrooms yesterday. This time when I heard the Paradigm S4s I noticed a definite reduction in volume in the high frequencies. I do not know if it because of the CDs I brought for the demo, differences between my local Paradigm dealer's and the Ovation Audio dealer's audio equipment (different receivers, speaker cables, acoustic properties in each sound room) or the fact that after weeks of listening to CDs with AVM30 and Mackies SRM 450s I had become more accustomed to hearing the loud high frequencies of horn drivers.

Fortunately Ovation Audio was also a Klipsch dealer and was able to demo the Klipsch RF7s in the same showroom as the Studio 100s. The difference in high frequency response between the Studio 100s and my memory of my Mackie SRM450s at home became more pronounced when I heard the Klipsch RF7s. I never thought I would find a speaker (within my budget) whose sound I enjoyed more than the Paradigm S4. The fact that the RF7s cost 33% less than the S4s was just extra "icing on the cake".
 
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
Hanse18 said:
btw, will your conversion to Klipsch affect your amp selection at all? I know some people run

K-Horns off tube amps, but I don't know if that applies to the heresys as well, or if it is even necessary in

the first place.
I checked the Klipsch forum for information regarding appropriate amplifiers to use on Heritage speakers and found the following comment:

"As you probably guessed, large Heritage crave tubes somewhere in the chain (the more the better) or very high quality solid state (and separates).
I suspect my Anthem AVM30 pre/pro and Anthem P2 amplifer would be included in the high quality solid state category.

From the audiogon website and a local Klipsch dealer I was able to determine that the only Klipsch Heritage line speakers I would be able to purchase under my $3000 budget would be either a new pair of Heritage Heresy IIs or a used pair of Belles. I plan on listening to these speakers next week in Klipsch's Indianapolis show room.
 
Hanse18

Hanse18

Audioholic
I generally try to avoid reading about the heritage models because it might cause me to do something I will later regret, like rob a bank and buy them. But I have heard a lot about people restoring older models. Apparently the 70's were an extremely good time for the Klipschorns, and now they can be found on ebay and stuff in a price that might suit you. I would imagine some restorations would be necessary, but the extent of the fixes and the overall cost will obviously vary. Considering that the design of these speakers has stayed the same since they were created (1942 for the k-horn), you might want to look into buying used.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....if I might interject some comments concerning Klipsch speakers from the 70's, or what is considered now to be the "Heritage" line.....

.....in the 70's and 80's, I listened to corner horns, La Scalas, Bells, Cornwalls, and Heresys, extensively, often, from every angle to be had, and the one that impressed me the most, by far, was the smallest member, the Heresys....one friend had 4 Heresys, in stereo-surround 4-corner setup, with a couple of homemade subs with 15's front-firing from the front corners "tastefully", and the rich sound quality to me, was nothing less than, "excellent"....second, imo, was the Cornwalls with their smaller horns not being as taxing on my head toward headaches as the larger models....the larger, hair-parting horns of the larger models impressed me for a short season, but with the strong concussion of the large powerful horn midrange drivers on metal bells, I learned to take headache medicine and ear plugs along for listening sessions in friends' homes....also, the folded-horn low end of the larger models was not for me, at all, with the bass tone control anything more than flat, being "whompy", with non-defined muddy almost non-existant oscillations from the bassline....and flat tone controls pushing the folded-horn low end, with no help from a sub or subs, was simply not enough low end, imo....I came to the decision that front-firing homemade subs, applied tastefully, to the larger model Klipsch speakers of the 70's with folded-horn low end, with the tone controls pretty much flat, was the only way to go having the folded-horn low end....to go for such a system today, with the sub choices available now, would probably be a decent system, but would still bring me headaches beyond the Heresy and Cornwalls at reference levels, considering the large and powerful midrange horns that part hair.....
 
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
mulester7 said:
"The Journey Of A Thousand Miles Begins With The First Step."
Thanks for your comments mulester7. Unfortunately my "journey of a thousand miles" toward HT nirvanna has ended after 1 step. I was planning on travelling to Klipsch World headquarters in Indianapolis to listen to speakers from the Heritage line as suggested by the Dayton OH Klipsch dealer but when I called Klipsch customer service to get directions, she said she never heard of a showroom in Indianapolis. :(

Is there someone on this forum that can confirm whether or not there is a Klipsch showroom at the Klipsch world headquarters in Indianapolis where customers can listen to all speakers in the Heritage line??? Does anyone know of a Klipsch dealer in Ohio or Indiana that has the Heresy speaker or other speakers in the Heritage line in stock??
 
Dapper Dan

Dapper Dan

Audioholic Intern
Sonic Stasher… (Apology for this diatribe in advance)

Sonic Stasher said:
Horn speakers and live performances
...I first went to the showroom with Paradigm S4s. I listened to Eric Clapton's "Key To The Highway" off the "Layla" CD and several tracks from Buddy Guy's "DJ Play My Blues" CD. I was disappointed when I noticed that the S4s seemed to muffle the high frequencies in comparison to the Mackie SRM450s. I noticed the same muffled high frequency when I played the same tracks on another system in another showroom with Studio 100s. These speakers did not produce the sound I was accustomed to hearing on stages or in the audience of live performances where admittedly all music was amplified via high wattage PA amps with horn drivers.
I have also transitioned from live shows and studio work (Pro Audio) to Hi Fidelity several years ago…actually nearly 20 years now…has it actually been that long! :eek: I can understand your frustration. For years I was completely unhappy with the general run of the mill consumer speakers, so I resorted to using my pro studio gear. I love and still have my JBL 4311’s, JBL 4313B’s, (the consumer version is the JBL L100’s). Also in the stable are Tannoy “little red monitors” which I use as my reference speaker, and Genelec monitors. Pro gear tends to be; for want of a better description, Forward and immediate. Usually because they are near/mid field monitors. (try standing in front of several Marshall stacks at “11” and hear the floor monitors for the vocals and rhythm!... they need to be loud, fast, clear and powerful enough to be heard but not so as to cause feedback from the mike’s…you know the deal..) If there was an easy way around this transition, I’d let you know, cause I’m still searching…I think you get to like what impresses you from day one and that sticks into your mind. I still have a tendency to look out for equipment titled as “studio or monitor” as a mark of sonic pedigree, although the term seems to be rather generic these days. :(

When I expressed my opinion to the dealer he told me that most home-audio speakers would not be able to approach the same sound of live performances unless they were also equipped with horn drivers. He then allowed me to listen to the same CD tracks on another system with Klipsch Reference RF7s.

I was floored by how much Klipsch RF7 speakers sounded like my Mackie SRM450s at home. Then I was surprised to find that they are 33% less than the cost of S4s. Now I am considering Klipsch Heresy II from their Heritage line or the Klipsch RF7s for my front speakers to be driven by the Anthem P2.
If you are considering going to a 5.1 set up, then really consider the Anthem P5, then you will get the same five amps to all speakers…and in the odd chance you pursue 7.1, then add a P2 and viola...Another amp to audition would also be the Parasound A51/A21. :cool:

I have read many posts on audiophile forums that have claimed that Klipsch horn speakers, especially the lines below the Reference line (e.g. Synergy), are too bright. I would be curious to see the results of a survey among pro/amateur rock musicians where they were posed the question "Do horn speakers like the Klipsch RF7 produce a sound that is too bright for home audio?"
I can understand your leaning towards the Klipsch RF-7’s. They are the closest that I have found that takes me back to the “good ol’ days” of the type of sound I like. Generally, horn implementation is a little bit of a mixed bag with the lower end of the Hi-Fi scale. That’s not to say they are bad, but rather to bright, shrill and lack coherent dispersion from the rest of the speaker. The high frequency sounds detached from the overall tonal balance of the speaker. In the case of the RF-7’s…they got it right. They have done there homework and put together a great speaker for home audio. Read this thread. After all is said and done, you have to be happy with what you are listening to, so if horns do it, then horns it is. (even I am considering them...) :D

Now I need to find a dealer who has Klipsch Heresy II in stock for a demo. I think I have found my "dream" home-audio front speakers in one of these Klipsch speaker models. :D
If you feel the horns may bother you down the track, then another option is to consider the Tannoy Prestige range of Dual Concentrics…the Turnberry's namely. (Almost horn loading, but not quite) :cool:

Lastly, saving 33% on the purchase price of speakers, you gotta be happy with that!

Cheers...

Dapper Dan... :D
 
Last edited:
S

Sonic Stasher

Enthusiast
Sonic Stasher said:
Thanks for your comments mulester7. Unfortunately my "journey of a thousand miles" toward HT nirvanna has ended after 1 step. I was planning on travelling to Klipsch World headquarters in Indianapolis to listen to speakers from the Heritage line as suggested by the Dayton OH Klipsch dealer but when I called Klipsch customer service to get directions, she said she never heard of a showroom in Indianapolis. :(

Is there someone on this forum that can confirm whether or not there is a Klipsch showroom at the Klipsch world headquarters in Indianapolis where customers can listen to all speakers in the Heritage line??? Does anyone know of a Klipsch dealer in Ohio or Indiana that has the Heresy speaker or other speakers in the Heritage line in stock??
My journey to HT nirvana has resumed with following email I received from the Klipsch forum administrator: :D :D :D

"We don't really have a public showroom where anyone can come in and listen, but we could probably accommodate you with a personal tour. We'd just need some advanced notice."

It's this type of customer service that tempts me to buy a Heresy III sight unseen/sound unheard!!
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top