Recommendations for a new amp

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PeterHaris

Audiophyte
Hi all, I am currently looking in the market to change over my current A/V receiver and was wondering if you could help me with my decision.

My current setup is as follows:
- Panasonic TH-65DX900U
- Marantz NR1604
- Sonus Faber Chameleon B speakers
- Boston 5.1 speakers

Recently, I upgraded the two front Boston speakers to the Sonus Faber Chameleon B speakers and the sound quality is night and day! However, I do believe that my current AV receiver is the bottleneck now... I need it to be 4k passthrough as my TV is 4k. The Anthem MRX 720 has caught my eye and it seems to be an all-in-one receiver with a lot of capabilities. https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/type=av-receiver/model=mrx-720/page=overview

Another one that looks even more impressive is the Primare SPA234KVM integrated amp. http://www.primare.net/product.asp?ProductID=57
The only reason why I began looking at Primare is because my uncle is currently using the Primare SP33 and power amp as part of his system and it sounds pretty impressive. He is also using MBL speakers for the front which sound breathtaking!

In the near future I will be purchasing the rest of the Sonus Faber Chameleon speakers, Chameleon T and Chameleon C. I'd like to know if the Anthem MRX720 will be the right choice for these speakers and vice versa. Regarding the Primare SPA234KVM, I'm sure it will be the perfect setup, though it is a much more expensive amp. In saying this though, I know I cannot compare the Anthem to a Primare as Primare is much better.

Any insight to my above decision, or if you recommend looking into another AV receiver, would be much appreciated.
 
tyhjaarpa

tyhjaarpa

Audioholic Field Marshall
Why do you think your avr is bottle necking? Does it not play loud enough? Electronics are only like 5% of sound experience and speakers are like 95%. If your avr plays with desired sound levels then you are fine. How ever if you require 4k then I would look for Denon/Marantz/Yamaha receiver with all the fearures you need.

Edit: I see your speakers are rated 4ohm so you should look for higher end models to avoid any issues.
 
P

PeterHaris

Audiophyte
Hello and thank you for your reply. Yes the speakers are 4 Ohm. I have tested these speakers on my uncle's Primare amp and they sounded amazing. My Marantz amp doesn't even fall close to the Primare, hence why I'm looking for another amp to purchase. If you have any recommendations for me to look into that would be appreciated.

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
That Primare integrated amp looks nice, what does it cost? Where are you located? You're using what sub?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hello and thank you for your reply. Yes the speakers are 4 Ohm. I have tested these speakers on my uncle's Primare amp and they sounded amazing. My Marantz amp doesn't even fall close to the Primare, hence why I'm looking for another amp to purchase. If you have any recommendations for me to look into that would be appreciated.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Just because your speakers sounded better in your uncle's place does not mean it is because of his amp. The room has huge influence on what you hear so your speakers can sound very different in different rooms.

To find out how much power you need, you can use this online Calculator to get your in the ball park.

The MRX-720 is a good AVR, but not a very powerful one and imo not the best value for the money type. The Denon AVR-X6200H or even the Marantz SR-7010 will likely offer more power and lower distortions.
 
P

PeterHaris

Audiophyte
The amps you have mentioned are commercial amps and I'm looking at amps that are non commercial. Furthermore, the amps you have mentioned I believe are D class, whereas the Primare is A class. I'm willing to pay the extra money, though I don't want to purchase an amp that is overkill for my setup. I will look at the link you sent me, thank you.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
P

PeterHaris

Audiophyte
That Primare integrated amp looks nice, what does it cost? Where are you located? You're using what sub?
I'm using the Boston sub that comes in the speaker package. The Primare integrated amp with the 4K chipset upgrade costs a bit over 5k AUD.

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm using the Boston sub that comes in the speaker package. The Primare integrated amp with the 4K chipset upgrade costs a bit over 5k AUD.

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I think your first step should be a quality sub, then a new center speaker (probably the Chameleon C to match your L/R) and maybe look hard at your room itself before addressing amplification which is the least contributor to good audio. $5K is too much for a 5ch unit like that IMO, too; I'd look at the upper end Yamaha/Denon/Marantz avrs first.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Furthermore, the amps you have mentioned I believe are D class, whereas the Primare is A class. I'm willing to pay the extra money, though I don't want to purchase an amp that is overkill for my setup. I will look at the link you sent me, thank you.
In other words, Your am highly interested to pay large sums of money on extremely inefficient (think space heater) last century technology, rather than getting something from this century and just enjoying the music.
Yes, couple of early D class amps had design issues. The issues had been resolved long time ago. Amplification is not that hard. Trust me - it's not rocket science.

Lovingthehd is right on the money and he's politely telling you than your sub is a crock. Mid tier avr I recommended above will handle the processing and amplification, and if you still feel the need to destroy your hearing, it allows for multichannel pre-out to connect external amp(s)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The amps you have mentioned are commercial amps and I'm looking at amps that are non commercial. Furthermore, the amps you have mentioned I believe are D class, whereas the Primare is A class. I'm willing to pay the extra money, though I don't want to purchase an amp that is overkill for my setup. I will look at the link you sent me, thank you.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Didn't see this til just now. You mean consumer amps? Then there are pro amps which are a bit different than consumer amps but melding together in some cases (I know I'm not alone here in using pro amps). The Primare you linked is a class D amp, altho it's Primare's take on it. The class doesn't matter much either if the design is well done and executed.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The amps you have mentioned are commercial amps and I'm looking at amps that are non commercial. Furthermore, the amps you have mentioned I believe are D class, whereas the Primare is A class. I'm willing to pay the extra money, though I don't want to purchase an amp that is overkill for my setup. I will look at the link you sent me, thank you.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I don't know what you meant by "A class". In terms of amplifier design classification (http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/amplifier/amplifier-classes.html) it is definitely not class A, it is likely a form of class D design. Based on the list price, specifications and how they advertised the features, magazine reviews etc, it is the kind of products aimed squarely at the audiophile group who are prone to Placebo effects/expectation bias. People in that group tends to (I don't mean all of them) believe that performance is directly tied to price. Also, by the principle of the economy of scale, don't expect such products offer the best value for the money.

In fact, I don't have doubt that for that kind of money, you can spend less than half on the latest Yamaha, Denon or even Marantz AV receivers and get better overall performance. The magazine reviewers will not tell you that because to them that is just not possible due to the huge price gap.

For the same money or less, you can also go the totally "separates" route, instead of getting such an expensive AV integrated amp that will get outdated quickly anyway.

Another thing to consider, your current AVR may be the bottle neck, but once you replace it with anything like the top end or near top end AVR such as the ones mentioned, your speakers will become the bottle neck, so even if the Primare unit is so much better, it won't make your speakers sound any better. It may make them sound different but not more accurate or better.
 
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PeterHaris

Audiophyte
I really appreciate all of your comments and I will consider what everyone has mentioned to me regarding my request of a new amp. I am still not sure what route to currently go with, simply due to having people around me advising me to go with non consumer hardware amp. To give you all a more precise budget, I'm looking at buying something up until around $5000AUD.
I really appreciate your time helping and advising me with my request.

P.s. I will be purchasing the chameleon C speaker in the near future too. I will also be selling my Boston speakers and Marantz amp to upgrade to something better of course.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
I really appreciate all of your comments and I will consider what everyone has mentioned to me regarding my request of a new amp. I am still not sure what route to currently go with, simply due to having people around me advising me to go with non consumer hardware amp. To give you all a more precise budget, I'm looking at buying something up until around $5000AUD.
I really appreciate your time helping and advising me with my request.

P.s. I will be purchasing the chameleon C speaker in the near future too. I will also be selling my Boston speakers and Marantz amp to upgrade to something better of course.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Just so you know, we are not against expensive electronics, in fact some of us do own expensive preamp and power amps for various reasons. We just want you to know they don't typically offer audibly better sound quality once expectation bias is removed from the equation. As long as the electronics from reputable manufacturers have decent specs and more than the needed power output for the job, source material, speakers, and the room pretty much determine what you are going to hear.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I really appreciate all of your comments and I will consider what everyone has mentioned to me regarding my request of a new amp. I am still not sure what route to currently go with, simply due to having people around me advising me to go with non consumer hardware amp. To give you all a more precise budget, I'm looking at buying something up until around $5000AUD.
I really appreciate your time helping and advising me with my request.

P.s. I will be purchasing the chameleon C speaker in the near future too. I will also be selling my Boston speakers and Marantz amp to upgrade to something better of course.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Your examples don't make sense when you say consumer amp; Primare is a consumer amp fwiw.

How big is your room? This would help for subwoofer suggestions as well as get an idea how much amp your speakers need. Are you trying to reach reference levels (85dB average, 105dB peaks from the speakers, 115dB from sub)? Or not that loud?

You could also buy a 2ch amp and apply that to your mains since your current avr has pre-outs for L/R speakers.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The link in my post before yours breaks down what Primare calls "Ultra Fast Power Device (UFPD) Class D Amplification"
fyi I did follow the OP's link and checked out the specs of that integrated amp but found no mentioning of class D on the specs page. Now I realize there are more info about this UFPD thing elsewhere on their website. You are right, that integrated amp is 100% class D, but with their own added features. The way things are going, I think class D will be an excellent choice eventually, when the presumably improved versions such as the Lyngdorf, Primare, Bell Canto's price down closer to Crown audio's lol..
 
P

PeterHaris

Audiophyte
Hi all,
Thank you all for your input once again. I've been thinking about my long term solution and it looks like I will be purchasing the rest of the Sonus Faber Chameleon speakers: Chameleon C and Chameleon T. I have pasted below each speakers specs:

Chameleon T:
CROSSOVER POINT
250 Hz - 2.500 Hz

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
38 Hz – 25.000 Hz

SENSITIVITY (2.831V/1M)
90 dB SP

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE
4 Ohm

SUGGESTED AMPLIFIER POWER OUTPUT
40W – 300W
without clipping

LONG-TERM MAX INPUT VOLTAGE (IEC-268-5)
22V rms

Chameleon C:
CROSSOVER POINT
2.000 Hz

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
50 Hz – 25.000 Hz

SENSITIVITY (2.831V/1M)
87 dB SP

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE
4 Ohm

SUGGESTED AMPLIFIER POWER OUTPUT
30W – 150W
without clipping

LONG-TERM MAX INPUT VOLTAGE (IEC-268-5)
20V rm

Chameleon B:
CROSSOVER POINT
2.500 Hz

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
50 Hz – 25.000 Hz

SENSITIVITY (2.831V/1M)
87 dB SP

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE
4 Ohm

SUGGESTED AMPLIFIER POWER OUTPUT
30W – 150W
without clipping

LONG-TERM MAX INPUT VOLTAGE (IEC-268-5)
20V rm

I will require an amp that can support all of the above specs, i.e. 4ohm (especially the T series speakers) and it needs to output audio effortlessly without having to reach its limits. It also needs to have 4k passthrough. Will the amps, which you have mentioned previously, work well with the above speakers?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi all,
Thank you all for your input once again. I've been thinking about my long term solution and it looks like I will be purchasing the rest of the Sonus Faber Chameleon speakers: Chameleon C and Chameleon T. I have pasted below each speakers specs:

Chameleon T:
CROSSOVER POINT
250 Hz - 2.500 Hz

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
38 Hz – 25.000 Hz

SENSITIVITY (2.831V/1M)
90 dB SP

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE
4 Ohm

SUGGESTED AMPLIFIER POWER OUTPUT
40W – 300W
without clipping

LONG-TERM MAX INPUT VOLTAGE (IEC-268-5)
22V rms

Chameleon C:
CROSSOVER POINT
2.000 Hz

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
50 Hz – 25.000 Hz

SENSITIVITY (2.831V/1M)
87 dB SP

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE
4 Ohm

SUGGESTED AMPLIFIER POWER OUTPUT
30W – 150W
without clipping

LONG-TERM MAX INPUT VOLTAGE (IEC-268-5)
20V rm

Chameleon B:
CROSSOVER POINT
2.500 Hz

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
50 Hz – 25.000 Hz

SENSITIVITY (2.831V/1M)
87 dB SP

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE
4 Ohm

SUGGESTED AMPLIFIER POWER OUTPUT
30W – 150W
without clipping

LONG-TERM MAX INPUT VOLTAGE (IEC-268-5)
20V rm

I will require an amp that can support all of the above specs, i.e. 4ohm (especially the T series speakers) and it needs to output audio effortlessly without having to reach its limits. It also needs to have 4k passthrough. Will the amps, which you have mentioned previously, work well with the above speakers?
Mr. Haris, to give you a credible answer, we need to know your room dimensions and your listening distance from the speakers. If you don't want to provide those information, please use the spl calculator I linked in post#14 to find out how much power you need to get 85 dB+20 dB dynamic peaks for a total of 105 dB from you sitting position. When you enter the speaker sensitivity in dB SPL (1 W/1 M), subtract 3 dB from your speaker's sensitivity specs. For example, for the Chameleon T, instead of 90, you have to enter 87. That is to allow for the fact that it's rated nominal impedance is 4 ohm instead of 8 ohms.

I would think in all likelihood, the Denon AVR-X6200W, Marantz SR-7010 or Anthem MRX-720 can do the job easily if you add an external power amp to take care of the Chameleon Ts, but there is no need to guess if you simply provide the missing information or use the online spl calculator. You can of course go with current models such as the AVR-X6300H or SR7011, but the cost will be much higher, for just a few mostly useless features.
 
P

PeterHaris

Audiophyte
Mr. Haris, to give you a credible answer, we need to know your room dimensions and your listening distance from the speakers. If you don't want to provide those information, please use the spl calculator I linked in post#14 to find out how much power you need to get 85 dB+20 dB dynamic peaks for a total of 105 dB from you sitting position. When you enter the speaker sensitivity in dB SPL (1 W/1 M), subtract 3 dB from your speaker's sensitivity specs. For example, for the Chameleon T, instead of 90, you have to enter 87. That is to allow for the fact that it's rated nominal impedance is 4 ohm instead of 8 ohms.

I would think in all likelihood, the Denon AVR-X6200W, Marantz SR-7010 or Anthem MRX-720 can do the job easily if you add an external power amp to take care of the Chameleon Ts, but there is no need to guess if you simply provide the missing information or use the online spl calculator. You can of course go with current models such as the AVR-X6300H or SR7011, but the cost will be much higher, for just a few mostly useless features.
Room dimensions are currently at 7m length and 3m width. The couch is 2.8m away from the front speakers and TV. I'll be moving all hardware to a 6m length and 5m width room in the near future so I'd like to future proof myself too. In the current scenario where I'm only looking at purchasing an integrated amp, are there any out there that can run the front T 300w speakers effortlessly?

Apologies for all of the questions :)

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

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