reciever specs

[TimmyR41]

ok well i've narrowed it down i think to a few recievers. i want to stay in the 300 - 400 range and i need at least 3 hdmi inputs that can decode audio from a blu ray player, xbox 360 and direct tv hd dvr. i plan on eventually going to 5.1 but probably no farther than that. maybe even only to 3.1 for the time being.

yamaha 465
yamaha 565
pioneer 819

i have auditioned the speakers i plan to get on the htr 5940 cause thats what they were hooked up to in the store. i liked them on that and was pretty sure i was going to go with the yamaha 465 but then i went to check the specs on both of them and it seems that yamaha has changed the way they report the specs since they printed the manual for the 5940. thats where i got confused.

i want something that is going to sound the same and hopefully better at home than it did in the noisy best buy store.

the big difference appears to be in the thd ratings. the 5940 is rated 20 hz to 20 khz at .06 thd at 8 ohms, the 465 and 565 are rated 1khz at .0thd at 8 ohms.

i am looking at the spec sheets for both of them and i'm having a hard time determining if these recievers are similar.

i know there are alot of other factors that weigh in on the sound of a reciever but i'm not real keen on what they are and how to determine if the 465 is going to be suitable.

as for speakers i'm going one of two routes.

1. polk tsi300 towers now and then the tsi200's for surrounds, cs10 for center and a sub

2. polk tsi200's and cs10 now and then add the tsi300's and sub later.

 

[3db]

From the yamaha.ca web site for an RX-V563;

Specifications

Min. RMS Output Power Front Channels 90 W + 90 W (0.06% THD)
(8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) Centre Channel 90 W (0.06% THD)
Surround Channels 90 W + 90 W (0.06% THD)
Rear Surround Channels 90 W + 90 W (0.06% THD)
Dynamic Power (8/6/4/2 ohms) 110/130/160/180 W
Frequency Response 10 Hz–100 kHz +0/-3 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (CD, Front Sp Out) 0.06% (50 W/8 ohms)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (CD) 100 dB (250 mV)
Dimensions (W x H x D) 435 x 151 x 352 mm
Weight 9 kg


For the HTR6160

Min. RMS Output Power Front Channels 95 W + 95 W (0.06% THD)
(8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) Centre Channel 95 W (0.06% THD)
Surround Channels 95 W + 95 W (0.06% THD)
Rear Surround Channels 95 W + 95 W (0.06% THD)
Dynamic Power (8/6/4/2 ohms) 130/165/195/240 W
Damping Factor (8 ohms, 20 - 20,000 Hz) 120 (Main)
Frequency Response 10 Hz–100 kHz +0/-3 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (CD, Front Sp Out) 0.06% (50 W/8 ohms)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (CD) 100 dB (250 mV)
Dimensions (W x H x D) 435 x 171 x 393 mm
Weight 11.8 kg



As you can see they rate their specs 20-20Khz on the main left and right channels. I'm assuming that applies across all thweir channels. Just so you know, the amp section sfor the RX-V series and HTR series are identical for the same rated output. Hope this helps.

 

[TimmyR41]

ok so what you are saying is that even though the manual for the 563 and the 465 and the 565 say it is 1khz at .9 thd at 8 ohms, that is the same as 20hz - 20khz a .06 at 8 ohms?

i guess what i'm looking for is not so much someone to tell me which receiver is better but someone to explain how to read these spec sheets and know for myself.

is it possible to compare a 1khz thd with a 20hz to 20khz thd?

aside from thd what are other things to look at on the spec sheet to know exactly what your spending your hard earned money on?

i realize this, like anything else, is a you get what you pay for deal but i just want to make sure i'm getting the best of what i'm willing to pay for. if that makes sense. as well as getting something i'm going to be happy with the sound from. i know anything will be an improvement over the speakers from my tv but i'm looking at droppin $800 to start and want to make sure i get something that sounds pretty decent.

 

[MatthewB.]

Timmy, no they are not the same. I typically avoid all recievers who rate their amps at just one frequency respos, because it does not give you a realistic view of what the amp can truly handle along the frequency response and with all channels driven. Almost any reciever can give you a nice response at 1kHz but it's those that can handle their amperage power along the whole frequency graph (20Hz-20kHz) that gives you a better representation. Now you also have to remember that all manufacturers rate their amps with just two channels driven and test the response with the left main channel. So when you hook up more than two speakers the amp in some cases drops drastically. Take Sony's top of the line ES model which is rated at 120 wpc but with 7 speakers hooked up it can only muster 45 wpc. When looking at receivers look at professional reviews by magazines like Home Theater and Sound and Vision (whose articles are online) and chck out their bench test results. They test with one channel, two channel, five channel and all seven channels along the entre audio spectrum to give you a "honest" review of what the reciever can handle.

 

[MatthewB.]

Also in the hundred of reviews I have read, I have found that Onkyo, Denon and Harmon Kardon accurately rate their amps to within 10% of their stated claims. H/K actually understates their own amps and in most cases is better than what their own brouchures claim. Companies like Pioneer and Yamaha fudge a little more (not counting the Pioneers with the ICE amps which also rate higher than their advertised claims. And Sony by far is the worst offender at claiming their amps are powerhorses. I'd feel safe running a Sony in a walk in closet sized room, any larger and I would be worried. (sorry those who own or like Sony just the conclusion I hav reached from the many many Sony's reviewed).

So what have we learned Timmy, do extensive online research on the models you like, check the bench results along the entire audio spectrum with all channels driven and remember at a certain price, almost all recievers will sound the same, so check for features you like, as you go up in price you get far more "impressive" options and sound quality. (Onkyo 805 is exception to this rule with it being so good for so little money)

 

[TimmyR41]

so is there somewhere i can get the specs on the 465 aside from the manual? the main thing that interests me with that is the 4 hdmi's with the audio decoding. it seems that to get a reciever aside from that one and the pioneer that wouldn't require me to run 2 cables from each device i have to spend much more on the reciever. i was initially considering the harman kardon avr 254 but the yamaha 465 seemed to have the inputs i needed for about $200 less. before the 465 came along i was going to purchase the 254 because it was the cheapest i could find with 3 hdmi's that process audio. still a bit more expensive than i was hoping though.

just for reference my living room is about 13' x 15 foot and my couch is about 8 feet away from my tv. the tv sits in the corner of an arch way which opens up into my dining room which is also about 13' x 13'.

 

[MatthewB.]

Timmy I would look at refurbished Onkyo 705's at shop onkyo or Accessories for less dot com and get a great reciever for around 300.00 (if you can find an Onkyo 805 for around 450.00 jump all over it). Again i would do an online seach on the recievers your interested in and see if there are any magazine reviews on them. For example put "Yamaha 465 review" in your search engine and see if any magazine has done one.

 

[TimmyR41]

well here is the problem with that. i am limited to best buy to get this thing started. basically i have some best buy points and a gift card from when i bought my tv. i need to use them up. best buy doesn't carry onkyo. if i can't find something i like at best buy then i won't be doing the home theatre thing right now because i don't really have the money to do it outside of using my gift cards.

i have searched for about 3 weeks not for reviews on the 465's and come up dry. i thought maybe i could come up with something from the spec sheet. maybe i can just force a best buy sales rep to hook the polks up to the 465 for me. that would probably be ideal. thanks for your responses so far.

 

[TimmyR41]

i guess another question that i would have is why would yamaha now choose to start rating with a 1khz thd as opposed to a full range thd?

 

[MatthewB.]

Timmy that is something i would be interested in also. Limited to BB huh, then greatly limits your choices, unless you have a BB with a Magnolia store built in, then your options are increased two fold but again cost is the major issue here. It seems your limited to around 300-500 and at that price pretty much any reciever you get is gonna be the same in sound and amp quailty, so I would go towards picking one that has the features you like.

 

[TimmyR41]

i guess part of my question when i started this thread was is the 465 going to sound comparable to the htr 5940. i liked the way that one sounded with the tsi300s. i mean i know its not the best but i also don't want to take a second mortgage on a sound system for my tv here.

i know its unfortunate that i am limited to best buy but i have also limited myself to price.

when i started out i was thinking about putting together a killer system and then i saw what kind of price i'd be talking to do something like that. i just want a system thats going to grow with me a bit and sound pretty good. which is why i was staying away from the htib and going with some more expensive and nicer sounding speakers with the thought to grow up to the 5.1 later on. then when i build a new house that can handle something a little better (with a better room for it) i will get into something a bit more serious.

 

[MatthewB.]

Timmy, after going to BestBuys website and checking out all the recievers for the price your looking at basically to get the new lossless audio decoding, your pretty much stuck with the Yammie (trust me it should be fine to run in your system as long as you don't blast at ear bleeding levels, you should be fine. It appears to be a pretty good reciever for the price. And consideringt you can use gift cards and reward points, that's even better.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Why not go with last year models, which have better power supplies and weight more (pounds), and cost much less too?

The best one is the Yamaha RX-V663, which you can probably have for a very good clearance price. OK, it does have only 2 HDMI inputs, but can you live with that?
If not, go with the 665, which have more features and less power, plus cost more.

Did you also look at the new Pioneer models, the VSX-1019AH-K and the VSX-919V-K? They are fully loaded and within your price range too. Of course the 1019 is the better one.

If you really want to go for the bottom price, consider the Pioneer 919 or Yamaha 565.

And if you still want to go very LOW, check the Pioneer VSX-819V-K or Yamaha RX-V465.
Do you want 5 or 7 channels?

Lower than that is e-bay, where you can get an older model receiver for about $40.

So, here you go, from a high of $400 to a down low & dirty $40.

Pick the one that match your desires and your budget.

Bob

 

[TimmyR41]

Ok well for an update I went with the yamaha 465 and a pair of the Polk tsi300s. I didn't have much time to mess with them last night as I had to run to two best buy stores to get both my speakers. Apparently the stocking mastermind at best buy doesn't know what they are doing. The computer said each best buy store had 2 floor models and 2 new in box. In reality each store had 1 in box and 2 out on the floor.

Back to the set up. I love it. It sounds leaps and bounds better than the tv speakers. I can acctually hear panning from left to right on games and tv and the bass response seems pretty good. I was testing with spiderman 3 that I had recorded in DVD and I could acctually feel the heart beats in the one section. I also tested live free or die hard on blu ray. It was quite impressive. In the scene where he drives the car into the helicopter I could distinctly tell the difference between him passing a car on the right or left. I seem to find a decent listening volume between -25db and -10db depending on the source.

I set up the tv and the speakers to output at the same volume and had my girlfriend close her eyes and tell me which she liked better when I muted one or the other. Her response was oh my gosh that one when I put the polls on.

I haven't begun to do any eq yet but so far I am more than pleased with the sound to price ratio of this setup. I can't wait to expand the system. It's going to be awhile but I can't imagine what it's going to sound like once I get up to 5.1.

 

[PENG]

I haven't begun to do any eq yet but so far I am more than pleased with the sound to price ratio of this setup. I can't wait to expand the system. It's going to be awhile but I can't imagine what it's going to sound like once I get up to 5.1.

Congratulations! You are a lucky man because you girl friend can hear the difference, so this is just the beginning, you are on the way to 5.1, 7.1, lossless audio codecs etc., etc....

 

[TimmyR41]

very true. I just think it's to the point where the ring should probably come before anymore av stuff. Once I get that taken care of though I will probably have the green light for whatever I want from here on out. Definite next step will be the center channel and a sub. Then I'll shoot for the surrounds.

She hasn't has a chance to listen to the system with the blu ray yet but it is an even more impressive difference than it is with the direct tv.

 

[MatthewB.]

Congrats Timmy, till you get the other speakers and sub, you should enjoy the new upgrade in sound quality. You do know that this hobby is like crack with sprinkles, cause you have just taken the first big hit and now you'll want to upgrade and upgrade till the GF decides you need an "intervention"

Congrats and the best excuse you can ever give when the GF screams that your spending too much money on gear, just smile and say, "honey, it's cheaper than a mistress and keeps me at home." End of argument right then and there.

Emjoy.

 

[3db]

Congrats Timmy

Sounds like your getting lots of enjoyment out of your system.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Mmm... Everybody is Congratulating you Tim.

So, I guess I might just join the party too...

CONGRATULATIONS!

 

[TimmyR41]

Thanks for the congratulations and thanks for the help so far. I've gotten slot of information from the forum so far. Now I'm looking at a spl meter and room eq wizzard as the next step. My thought is I'll toy around with the speaker set up stuff now so when I get the rest of my system i'll be ready to go.

I watched American idol with my girlfriend tonight and the sound was really pretty good. Far better than in used to be. While the preformers were singing everything sounded really quite good. When Ryan was talking I could tell the eq was off a bit. He sounded somewhat too strong in the higher frequencys but that is to be expected since I'm running a flat eq right now. Even with that though I'm still quite impressed with the system at this point.