Receiver upgrade time...very confused?

[corysmith01]

I'm looking to upgrade my receiver (Onkyo TX-SR602) but am very confused. I've read a lot here, as well as online reviews, site reviews, etc and just can't seem to put it all together to determine what's the best bang for my buck. I have ~$800 to spend...give or take $100. I watch a lot of movies, but am very conscious of my 2channel music...I love it and am mostly concerned with performance there. With that in mind, where on earth do I turn?

I've looked at both the Denon 2805 and 3805. Any reason to go with one over the other...seems like the only difference is 20 watts and DenonLink. I've considered the Yamaha rx-v2500. I've also considered NAD, the T753, which can be had for about $850. It takes a dip in watts (70W per channel) when compared to the others, but is has the wonderful upgradeable preamp output feature where I can add a 2 channel, more powerful amp later for 2 channel listening. That devoted 2 chan. amp set up seems very enticing, but means more money down the line. Worth it? I don't know.

There's lots to consider and I was hoping someone out there could help narrow the field a little. I realize my budget is not the highest, but from what I've read $800 seems to be able to get you a pretty serious set up. Thanks for any input.

 

[Nomo]

Why are you looking to upgrade?
Deciding on what you feel is missing on the Onkyo is a good place to start.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

If I had $800, I'd go buy this Marantz and spend the extra on a used 2 channel amp to power front towers. You can get a 3805 for under $800 at www.ubid.com or www.dakmart.com which is what I have (love it). My Denon is from Ubid and it arrived perfect - low shipping cost, and very quick delivery. Marantz, Denon, and McIntosh are all owned by the same company, and the service is great. I don't know about Yamaha's service, although I still have an old 2 channel Yammy in the basement that sounds great.

www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=10313989

 

[corysmith01]

I'm looking to upgrade simply because of power. My Onkyo is rated at 85W/channel, but I feel like I really have to crank it up to get it going. For instance, if I'm watching a movie, the base starting point is with the volume at 50 (volume scale is 1-99 on this model). Anything below 50 is really low...actually, I've got to put it abt about 30 before anything is even audible. At any rate, I've run it at 65 before on a movie and that seemed fine, but that's all while remembering I'm in an apartment and want to keep it at respectable levels...what I'm getting at is, if I had my own place and could really juice it up, power becomes a question in my mind, being that I'm already running it at 65.

As for the marantz, that's a nice call. I've looked at the receiver before but totally overlooked the fact that it had pre amp outs. That's a great feature for the addition of a powerful 2 ch. amp later. I'll definitely have to consider it. Thanks.

 

[warpdrive]

I'm a NAD fan....nothing sounds better for the money

I replaced a 7 year old NAD Prologic receiver with a new Yamaha 2500, and my old NAD sounded better than my Yamaha, and I'm pretty sure it sounds better than any Denon I've heard recently.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm looking to upgrade simply because of power. My Onkyo is rated at 85W/channel, but I feel like I really have to crank it up to get it going. For instance, if I'm watching a movie, the base starting point is with the volume at 50 (volume scale is 1-99 on this model). Anything below 50 is really low...actually, I've got to put it abt about 30 before anything is even audible. At any rate, I've run it at 65 before on a movie and that seemed fine, but that's all while remembering I'm in an apartment and want to keep it at respectable levels...what I'm getting at is, if I had my own place and could really juice it up, power becomes a question in my mind, being that I'm already running it at 65.

As for the marantz, that's a nice call. I've looked at the receiver before but totally overlooked the fact that it had pre amp outs. That's a great feature for the addition of a powerful 2 ch. amp later. I'll definitely have to consider it. Thanks.

A couple of issues. If you double the amp power 10 170 watts, you can expect a 3dB spl increase only, not very much at all, but only at the extreme volume levels, on peaks, not the overall average listeing level.

I think, from what you are describing, is that your expectations are more than what you will achieve. The numbers on the amp is really meaningless to derive how loud, how hard the amp is working.

If you are able to have volumes as loud as you can in an apartment, then you have plenty of amp power. Don't forget, when receivers are level matched for 75dB spl level witht he test signal, master volume control setting is either at max, or a bit below, maybe 10 units.
I don't think you have an amp problem. But, if it doesn't have the features you need, then yes, you need a new receiver that has what you need.

Just remember, replacing that unit with a 100 watt unit will not gain you anything. A waste of $$$.

 

[tedsyubin]

Old geezer needs advice.

Like Corysmith01, I am upgrading my receiver from a five year old Onkyo that has coaxial input only and is 75 wpc. We love watching movies and have a good but small collection of DVDs plus we have Netflix. Speakers are Paradigm Atoms in front, Minis in rear, CC-170 center and Polk 10" subwoofer. Have been reading about Yamaha avr in Forum and would like to get advices on choice between Yamaha 2400 and 2500. What is the difference other than wattage and price? Are both very complicated to use for a senior citizen? Just looking at the back of one of these sends chills down my spine. The viewing room is about 20X20 ft. open on one side to the kitchen.

 

[warpdrive]

ted

Receivers are very complicated. The Yamaha V2500 is a light-year ahead of the 2400 in ease of use for the onscreen menus. No brainer, get the V2500, it is easier to use.

I am a highly technically proficient person (engineering background),and my 2400 still confounds me a bit.

The V2500 has some other improvements, most of which won't matter to most people.

 

[Xsound]

Ted,
Even if you are an old geezer, you seem to be somewhat HT savvy. My recommendaation would be to look not for the cheapest or best price, but to expect to pay a little more from a dealer nearby. Then in the course of negotiating, find out if they would charge you to come and hook it up for you and give a you a demo. While doing the demo, write down all of the directions on a note-card. If need be you can type them up and tape the instructions to the back of the remote. Did this for my mother and step-dad.

The key thing here is going to be the remote interface, and different systems seem to make sense to different people. To me ease of use seems to go hand in hand with the way we process information internally. We all assimilate and process info differently, just look at the Myers-Briggs Personality Type indicator. You need to spend some time demoing receivers and play with the remotes, particularly with changing sources and accessing processing modes.

For me, the remote that seemed to make the most sense was the Pioneer. I bought an elite vsx-54tx online (after I demoed Pioneer, Yamaha, and Denon in store). I have had it for about 6 weeks, and I must admit that I was intimidated by the set-up process. I didn't even start the hook up process for a couple of days. I am still trying to learn about how the receiver works. The Pioneer has a very good owners manual. You can download the manual for any of their products on-line. You can also download the manual for Yamaha's on-line. I understand the manuals for Denon's are not quite as thorough.

If you like the Onkyo that you have, you may want to consider staying with that brand. I can't really comment on current product, remotes, or manuals for Onkyo. My last Onkyo receiver, which I loved, is 25 years old.

 

[Nick250]

I'm looking to upgrade simply because of power. My Onkyo is rated at 85W/channel, but I feel like I really have to crank it up to get it going. For instance, if I'm watching a movie, the base starting point is with the volume at 50 (volume scale is 1-99 on this model). Anything below 50 is really low...actually, I've got to put it abt about 30 before anything is even audible. At any rate, I've run it at 65 before on a movie and that seemed fine, but that's all while remembering I'm in an apartment and want to keep it at respectable levels...what I'm getting at is, if I had my own place and could really juice it up, power becomes a question in my mind, being that I'm already running it at 65.

As for the marantz, that's a nice call. I've looked at the receiver before but totally overlooked the fact that it had pre amp outs. That's a great feature for the addition of a powerful 2 ch. amp later. I'll definitely have to consider it. Thanks.

Based on your posts here it seems unlikely a reciever upgrade would have any real impact on the quality of the sound. It drives your speakers just fine. Bear in mind that as long as you can drive your speakers to the volume you wish the receiver has little to do with your system sound. It would seem to me you have a bit of upgradeites, something I am all to familiar with. I struggle with it all the time. The past few months I have had a wicked jones for a Dennon 2805. So far I have been able to resist

If you really want to impact the sound start aditioning new speakers, that is where the big improvements are.

Nick

 

[corysmith01]

You got me.

Yes, I FULLY agree that I have upgradeitis. I'm a total lush for new toys.

But really, I did think that having something a little more powerful would push my speakers a little bit more...if not louder, perhaps a thicker, fuller sound with more power running to them. The thing that's weird is, after reading so many posts on this fourum, is that everyone refers to the "double your power for +3 db of sound." That seems so weird to me. Not from a scientific standpoint, but from a manufacturers standpoint. Using Denon as an example only, if that is the case, why would they offer models with differing capabilities AND wattage differences? Meaning, why would they offer the 2105 w/90w, the 2805 w/100w and the 3805 with 120w per channel. None of those effectively double the original output of the 2105, thus, the audible level difference wouldn't be there right? So, why not just offer more features (more a/v inputs, better processors, etc) but keep the wattage the same. If doubling your watts is what's necessary, why would they only jump the 3805 up by 30w from the 2105. Is it all physchology for the buyer? (i.e. more watts MUST mean better) Just seems weird to me

 

[mtrycrafts]

You got me.

Yes, I FULLY agree that I have upgradeitis. I'm a total lush for new toys.

But really, I did think that having something a little more powerful would push my speakers a little bit more...if not louder, perhaps a thicker, fuller sound with more power running to them. The thing that's weird is, after reading so many posts on this fourum, is that everyone refers to the "double your power for +3 db of sound." That seems so weird to me. Not from a scientific standpoint, but from a manufacturers standpoint. Using Denon as an example only, if that is the case, why would they offer models with differing capabilities AND wattage differences? Meaning, why would they offer the 2105 w/90w, the 2805 w/100w and the 3805 with 120w per channel. None of those effectively double the original output of the 2105, thus, the audible level difference wouldn't be there right? So, why not just offer more features (more a/v inputs, better processors, etc) but keep the wattage the same. If doubling your watts is what's necessary, why would they only jump the 3805 up by 30w from the 2105. Is it all physchology for the buyer? (i.e. more watts MUST mean better) Just seems weird to me

In essence, it is a marketing game. They may or may not have more features outside of a bit of more power. It is easy to sell the extra features even if you will never use it or just once. Price is also an issue. but in the end, it is all about human psychology and marketing.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

There are more differences than you think. Take into consideration THD. Although most of us can't hear 1%, you can tweak power ratings on recievers by increasing the THD slightly. The better units will have slightly better transformers and better heat sinks. Have you wondered why they don't rate the 2105 and down at .05% thd? Because the wattage would drop below their competition. Can I hear the difference between .05 and .08 - no way. But why does Denon feel the need to rate them differently? The same reason there is the price difference between the 2805 and 2105. Also take for example a $5000 30 watt tube amp. It will drive a set of electrostats. 30 watts is quite a bit of power. Your jump from the 2805 to the 3805 is 20 watts at the same distortion.

Model Wattage THD
3805 120x7 .05
2805 100x7 .05
2105 90x7 .08
1905 80x7 .08
1705 75x6 .08

 

[tedsyubin]

Receiver upgrade time...very confused

Many thanks for your kind advice to all of you. I have checked out Good Guys, Circuit City and Best Buy but in my area in suburbs of SF Bay Area the demos are limited so have not made up my mind yet. But I'll keep on looking. Leaning towards the Yamaha 2500 but hear that the remote is hard to read. l lot of them have such small lettering on the equipment as well. My eyesight is OK but I wear bifocals. Ted

 

[Leprkon]

Cory, does the 602 have pre-outs for the front channels ? you could hang one of these on the front and always use it on your next upgrade as well.

http://ww1.onecall.com/PID_653.htm

 

[corysmith01]

No, it doesn't unfortunately. In the time that this was published, I actually got another receiver. It was a deal I couldn't pass up. I got a new Marantz SR8400 from ubid for $590! The pre-amp out was actually something I wanted (that isn't on my onkyo) and the Marantz has it. I'm supposed to be receiving it tomorrow. Is it a HUGE jump from my Onkyo?...probably not. But at that price, I felt i'd be stupid not to pick it up...now I can add a power amp later for 2 channel listening if I want.

 

[Leprkon]

I got a new Marantz SR8400 from ubid for $590!

we're expecting a full report on how that works out !

 

[corysmith01]

I'd be happy to report. According to ubid, it's a "new, in box" item and warranty is through Marantz, so everything sounds like it's on the up and up....though your request for a report on "how that works out" makes me worry a little.