Receiver that can run mains as Large with subs natively?

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
My old Pioneer AV receiver can do that. But it is a dinosaur. Pioneer doesn't even serve the home audio market any longer. The setup program provides for large/small option individually for each speaker. Same with a very basic and cheap Pioneer AV receiver I use in my bedroom. I'm guessing but I would expect the feature in virtually any AV receiver.
Pioneer is still offering avrs....it is just a brand of Onkyo's now, tho.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Samurai
Pioneer is still offering avrs....it is just a brand of Onkyo's now, tho.
I do remember when Onkyo acquired Pioneer home audio. I haven't kept track and assumed they were buying a name to grow their brand. But you are right. Pioneer receivers are alive and well at https://www.pioneerhomeusa.com I guess my receivers aren't as dinosaur like as I thought.
 
MalVeauX

MalVeauX

Senior Audioholic
My last Pioneer gave up the UE22 error and I got tired of opening it up and using a hair dryer on its chips. Binned it. I forget it's model, but it was 7.2 and had full pre-amp outs and I liked it for that. Shame.

Very best,
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Senior Audioholic
Hey all,

Are today's modern receivers able to run the mains (or all channels) as large (full range) with subs blended natively yet? All my previous receivers have required the speakers to be set to small and crossover to use subs in multi-channel audio. Or is this still a limit? Sometimes I like to not run my subs at all and just run the mains (often stereo only even) and would like them to run full range whether I use a sub or not, without having to constantly reconfigure the settings on the receiver just to cycle back and forth.

Very best,
My Marantz 7012 has separate settings for 2-channel and multichannel so you can run the mains as small in multichannel with a sub and run stereo in large with or without the subs running and at different crossover points if you wish. I don't think the cheapest 6012 had the same capability for separate settings, but I'm not sure.

Also, contrary to the "experts" (boy do some people get angry over this that claim their chosen audio heroes say it's impossible or some crap), I have REW graphs showing improved bass response using the mains in "large" mode plus the subs running.

I get specific room mode issues at two frequencies that using the mains seem to squash like a bug. The caveat is I run the subs +3dB hotter than the mains so the mains never create a larger peak in the combined response nor do I expect the same overall peak levels, but they do fill in room mode valleys big time that no amount of EQ can fix (bass coming from a different location in the room excites different modes). It all jibes with known multiple bass source (normally subs) helping to even things out, but for some odd reason people think full range mains make it worse, but subs make it better? I get +/- 1.5dB at the MLP for 20Hz-200Hz now with Audyssey on up to 5kHz (+/- 4dB overall room response really all within 2.5dB save one room anomaly at 600Hz).

Whatever. I'm happy with it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
My Marantz 7012 has separate settings for 2-channel and multichannel so you can run the mains as small in multichannel with a sub and run stereo in large with or without the subs running and at different crossover points if you wish. I don't think the cheapest 6012 had the same capability for separate settings, but I'm not sure.

Also, contrary to the "experts" (boy do some people get angry over this that claim their chosen audio heroes say it's impossible or some crap), I have REW graphs showing improved bass response using the mains in "large" mode plus the subs running.

I get specific room mode issues at two frequencies that using the mains seem to squash like a bug. The caveat is I run the subs +3dB hotter than the mains so the mains never create a larger peak in the combined response nor do I expect the same overall peak levels, but they do fill in room mode valleys big time that no amount of EQ can fix (bass coming from a different location in the room excites different modes). It all jibes with known multiple bass source (normally subs) helping to even things out, but for some odd reason people think full range mains make it worse, but subs make it better? I get +/- 1.5dB at the MLP for 20Hz-200Hz now with Audyssey on up to 5kHz (+/- 4dB overall room response really all within 2.5dB save one room anomaly at 600Hz).

Whatever. I'm happy with it.
One of the greater aspects of a good avr is this sort of setup flexibility. I generally don't make a distinction between my 2.1 vs 7.1 use for signal processing or speakers used for playback, but nice to have such options (and have experimented with them).
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Right; thanks, I know the difference between small/large and how that works for sub crossover. What I'm digging at is looking for the ability to potentially run just the mains at full range, with subs, in multi-channel but also being able to simply turn the subs off and listen in stereo with the mains operating full range, without having to do several menu steps to re-configure. I think modern AVR's can do something similar to this now, but just wasn't sure which ones at a starting point can do it. Such as run all speakers as small except the front L/R (maybe even C) set to large and still have sub (with a low cross over), so that if I turn off the subs, the L/R/C still operate full range.

Very best,
I do this very thing using memory settings of the AVR, Pure Direct, and a logitech remote. My memory setting on the AVR runs with mains set to small, no PEQ plus sub. Hitting pure direct disables bass management and sets the mains to large. In your case, I would change the memory setting to use the mains and sub for bass.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
I don't want to call Yamaha manuals awful, but they are awful. Keep in mind that the crossover is applicable only to speakers set at SMALL. LARGE speakers will receive a full signal. This is why the SUB is cut out when FRONT speakers are set at LARGE. To get the SUB in the mix with LARGE speakers, one must turn on "EXTRA BASS" in Yamaha receivers. The sound mode matters not in this case except when playing a two channel track in PURE DIRECT mode in a Yamaha as that will result in sound being sent only to the FRONT speakers. Switch to STRAIGHT, STEREO or ALL CHANNEL STEREO mode with the same two channel track and the SUB will come on when speakers are set at LARGE as long as "EXTRA BASS" is on.
Yamaha manuals suck rotten eggs!!!. Look at my equipment list. :p
 
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