Receiver setup advice needed

X

xtrmbikin

Audiophyte
I've been using a Denon 2809ci Receiver in my living room since last summer. The problem I have lived with is the volume levels need to be really high which doesn't seem right to me. On average the volume is set at -15db to -25db during movie and TV watching. I was using a yamaha receiver prior to this (don't remember the model but was purchased back in '03 for around $400 new) and the volume level was usually around -40db and that seamed loud to me. This receiver was setup with the included mic and auto-calibration. Night mode or any volume lowering setting is set to off as far as I can tell. It's as if this receiver is under powered or I am missing some important setting. I've checked the speaker level settings and have had to go as high as +4 db on the center channel to hear voices clearly but still feel something is wrong. I 've run the auto calibration a few times but don't ever get any changes. If this is normal of the Denon brand as this is my first one I will learn to live with it but if there is some setting I am missing I would hope someone here can point me in the right direction.

I do plan to get some Polk speakers all around this summer as an upgrade (rti line) but fear i will be getting the same results. I find its worse while watching blu-ray movies with the new HD codecs. I've had the volume set to as high as -12 db and still have a hard time making out the dialogue in some movies. At that level I also start to hear what sounds like speaker noise to me or it being hollow sounding. I am not sure how to explain it. Its the noise you start to get when you crank the volume to max but have nothing playing.
Thanks in advance for the help.
 
T

tom67

Full Audioholic
Don't know what speakers you have, but....to give you an example, with an average 15 x 15 room with 9' ceiling, and speakers with average spl of 89-90spl, your description of the volume sounds about right. I had a Yamaha HTR 5250 (100 watts-circa 2001) which was one of the last analog volume controlled AVRs. It was comfortably loud at about 10 o'clock. But, it was not much louder at 12 o'clock and distorted above 2 o'clock.By comparison, my newer Yamaha, rated at 100 watts is generally at -20db for average-slightly loud levels. Those old units were biased with much of the power up front. I suspect they did that for two reasons 1. it gave the perception of power and helped sell units and 2. It made sense so that you did not have to spend time turning the units up to a decent level. I think your Denon is fine, remembering you need to double the power of a receiver to get about a 10% volume increase....just the way it is...
The second issue is hearing dialog....I feel your pain. This has been my complaint since the era of high dynamic range began. With Blue Ray, DTS and even Dolby digital, the range has increased to the point where, in a lot of cases, to hear dialog, you have to endure very loud special effects. I have never found an answer for that. Your receiver will allow you to reduce the dynamic range. Of course that defeats the intent of the film maker to shake you out of your seat with the effects....just the way it is....and thats reality. Think about it, if you were standing by the tracks talking to a friend when a train came by, you would not expect to hear your friend, but thats what we are asking the sound engineers to do.
 
X

xtrmbikin

Audiophyte
Thank you guys for the help. I will have to do some more reading to educate myself lol. But since my current set of speakers are some mid grade JBL's going on 8 yrs old I believe the Polks will give me better performance. I am also debating on upgrading this reciever and putting it in my bedroom. Any recomendations? Was thinking one of the new Denons that was announced recently but am open to try something else.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
Another thing is that the auto-calibration is not necessarily the be-all end-all solution. It may not provide the best calibration. You need to double check the results to see if they make sense. One test is to simply turn Audyssey off.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I've been using a Denon 2809ci Receiver in my living room since last summer. The problem I have lived with is the volume levels need to be really high which doesn't seem right to me. On average the volume is set at -15db to -25db during movie and TV watching. I was using a yamaha receiver prior to this (don't remember the model but was purchased back in '03 for around $400 new) and the volume level was usually around -40db and that seamed loud to me. This receiver was setup with the included mic and auto-calibration. Night mode or any volume lowering setting is set to off as far as I can tell. It's as if this receiver is under powered or I am missing some important setting. I've checked the speaker level settings and have had to go as high as +4 db on the center channel to hear voices clearly but still feel something is wrong. I 've run the auto calibration a few times but don't ever get any changes. If this is normal of the Denon brand as this is my first one I will learn to live with it but if there is some setting I am missing I would hope someone here can point me in the right direction.

I do plan to get some Polk speakers all around this summer as an upgrade (rti line) but fear i will be getting the same results. I find its worse while watching blu-ray movies with the new HD codecs. I've had the volume set to as high as -12 db and still have a hard time making out the dialogue in some movies. At that level I also start to hear what sounds like speaker noise to me or it being hollow sounding. I am not sure how to explain it. Its the noise you start to get when you crank the volume to max but have nothing playing.
Thanks in advance for the help.
If calibrated, even -15 to -25 is quiet. I don't know the last time I listened as quietly as -15, at least on the HT. This assumes calibration of some sort, otherwise, we are talking arbitrary numbers.

+3 is definitely not unheard of for a center speaker. First of all, it might have a lower sensitivity than your mains. Then, if it's low to the ground, you lose out on some of its power. If it's low, and not even angled, you lose some more. If it is a horizontal MTM, and you are significantly off axis to it, you suffer lobing which affects the dialogue range. Lots of possibilities.

Have you tried engaging Dynamic EQ/Vol? At the lower levels you are at, those could be quite a boon, hopefully.
 

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