Receiver recommendation for Klipsch HT set-up

[AydnKpRp]

Hey all

I need some help to decide which receiver to go for with my home theater set-up. I've already done plenty of research but cannot make a decision... I have probably spent 10-15h reading about receivers and not only can I not find good arguments to pick one receiver against another, I can't even find arguments that justify the price differences between most of them.

Here is my set-up
2 pairs of Klipsch RP-600M (100W cont, 400W peak, 8 ohms) as my front and back speakers
Klipsch RP-600C center speaker (125W cont, 500W peak, 8 ohms)
2 Klipsch SPL-100 subwoofers (200W cont, 450W peak)
LG OLED 65'' C8 TV

I mainly want to use the system for 4K movies (using the TV's apps, so will need to use HDMI ARC, but also planning on setting up a NAS with Plex at some point) and a bit of music listening (Spotify). My flat is not soundproof at all (actually quite the opposite) so I will never push this system to its limits, I'll probably run this at 50% capacity at max

My budget for a receiver is up to $1,000, ideally but I can flex if you have a compelling reason for it.

Here are the ARVs I have considered so far:

• Onkyo TX-NR686 ($399): Not very attracted by this unit as it seems entry level for my system and wouldn't do it justice. Also heard that AccuEQ is a pain to use. However reviews are great all-around, I'm just concerned it might be a great $400 receiver but far from performing as well as a more expensive receiver
• Onkyo TX-NR696 ($649): Didn't find a good justification for the incremental price over the 686
• Denon 3500H ($549): Good deal on this one, initially my top choice. Then heard negative feedback on software issues, ARC compatibility and lower quality DACs compared to other brands like Yamaha. Also Denon just released the 2600H so not sure if worth waiting for that or not, but will not get as good a deal on the 2600 that I can get now on the 3500
• Sony STR-DN1080 ($449): Similar impression to the Onkyo 686, and reviews are also stellar
• Yamaha RX-A680 ($549): Seemed like a good option, but it's the entry model of the AVENTAGE range so not sure if I wouldn't be better off picking a middle-of-the-pack unit in a lower tier range. Also only has 4 HDMI inputs which is too few for me anyway
• Yamaha RX-A880 ($999): Top of my budget, not clear what I am getting over the Denon 3500 at twice the price
• I have looked a bit at other big name brands (Marantz) which are often too expensive. I have not looked at more niche brands however

Disclaimer: I have never owned or shopped for a receiver before. I have not had the chance to listen to any of the above models either

My main considerations when looking at receivers is making sure it is not a bottleneck to anything I want to do:

• It should support generally all video and sound technologies (compatible with my 5.2 set up)
• It should work seamlessly for various use cases without giving me headaches (i.e. 4K movies using TV apps, plugging a NAS server to it, using my PS4, using Spotify...)
• It should be easy to set up and tune
• It should be relatively future-proof (I intend on keeping the unit for a few years)
• I am not too fussed about sound quality (this is subjective, and this is my first system so I don't have any frame of reference to assess SQ)

Any advice is highly appreciated. I know I am probably putting way too much effort into this but I want to make sure I get the right stuff.

Thanks!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If you can do a refurb, I might go this way.
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx2400ha/denon-avr-x2400h-7.2-ch-x-95-watts-a/v-receiver-w/heos-new/1.html
Then get another pair of speakers and do 5.2.2 Atmos.

I would use more funds to upgrade your subwoofers, but since you live in an apt that might not go over very well. If you ever make it to a home, I’d recommend that you upgrade those right away.

 

[PENG]

• Denon 3500H ($549): Good deal on this one, initially my top choice. Then heard negative feedback on software issues, ARC compatibility and lower quality DACs compared to other brands like Yamaha. Also Denon just released the 2600H so not sure if worth waiting for that or not, but will not get as good a deal on the 2600 that I can get now on the 3500

The Denon AVR-X3500H would be my top choice on your list based on street price. According to @M Code, our resident insider, Yamaha has a better reliable track record and they should have fewer HDMI compatibility issues than others because of their more vigorous testing/certification process iirc). If you search for HDMI issues, you will see that Yamaha's units are not totally immune either. Many of the reported issues on the internet are due to user errors too, especially the ARC related ones.

I have the X4400H and I recall some minor nuisance (occasional audio drop out) in setting up HDMI ARC in the beginning. It has been working flawlessly for more than a year now and my best guess is that Denon must have fixed the issues in the FW updates, so I think it is reasonable to assume the X3500H should no longer have such glitches.

Regarding the DAC thing, you were given some false information. The fact is, the DAC chip for the recent Denon 3000 series and up have been upgraded to the AK4458, that should be considered as equal to Yamaha's ES9006/9007 in the RX-A1080. Since you brought up the DAC thing, if that is a key factor for you, then you need to know the RX-A880 on your short list, has the PCM5102A, that has distortions 5 times higher than the Denon AVR-X3500H's AK4458.

If compared to the RX-A1080, the AK4458 (Denon/Marantz's) is 5 dB better in THD+N, whereas the ES9006/9007 is 5 dB better in SNR/DNR. So either one has THD and DNR so good that the differences in specs on paper are practically meaningless.

https://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4458VN.pdf
http://www.esstech.com/files/4014/4095/2155/SABRE9006A_PB_v0.4_140916.pdf

AK4458 ............................THD: -107 dB, that is 0.000447%, DNR 115 dB
PCM5102A.......................THD: -93 dB, that is 0.0022387%, DNR 112 dB (RX-A880)
ES9006/9007 ..................THD: -102 dB, that is 0.000794%, DNR 120 dB (RX-A1080)

One advantage Denon/Marantz has is the preamp/vol control that is now based on individual IC chips instead of the LSI (large scale integrated) chips. I have no idea if Yamaha has done the same. Either way, the different specs on paper are likely not audible to most people but to the golden ears. It may also make a difference to people (me included) who are sort of obsessed with numbers.

One minor point, the RX-A880's preamp/vol control circuit seems to have a lower output than the RX-A1080 and higher models. Since you seem very sure that you will not ever need additional power so that is a moot point, I thought I should just mention it so you are aware.

 

[yepimonfire]

The Denon AVR-X3500H would be my top choice on your list based on street price. According to @M Code, our resident insider, Yamaha has a better reliable track record and they should have fewer HDMI compatibility issues than others because of their more vigorous testing/certification process iirc). If you search for HDMI issues, you will see that Yamaha's units are not totally immune either. Many of the reported issues on the internet are due to user errors too, especially the ARC related ones.

I have the X4400H and I recall some minor nuisance (occasional audio drop out) in setting up HDMI ARC in the beginning. It has been working flawlessly for more than a year now and my best guess is that Denon must have fixed the issues in the FW updates, so I think it is reasonable to assume the X3500H should no longer have such glitches.

Regarding the DAC thing, you were given some false information. The fact is, the DAC chip for the recent Denon 3000 series and up have been upgraded to the AK4458, that should be considered as equal to Yamaha's ES9006/9007 in the RX-A1080. Since you brought up the DAC thing, if that is a key factor for you, then you need to know the RX-A880 on your short list, has the PCM5102A, that has distortions 5 times higher than the Denon AVR-X3500H's AK4458.

If compared to the RX-A1080, the AK4458 (Denon/Marantz's) is 5 dB better in THD+N, whereas the ES9006/9007 is 5 dB better in SNR/DNR. So either one has THD and DNR so good that the differences in specs on paper are practically meaningless.

https://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4458VN.pdf
http://www.esstech.com/files/4014/4095/2155/SABRE9006A_PB_v0.4_140916.pdf

AK4458 ............................THD: -107 dB, that is 0.000447%, DNR 115 dB
PCM5102A.......................THD: -93 dB, that is 0.0022387%, DNR 112 dB (RX-A880)
ES9006/9007 ..................THD: -102 dB, that is 0.000794%, DNR 120 dB (RX-A1080)

One advantage Denon/Marantz has is the preamp/vol control that is now based on individual IC chips instead of the LSI (large scale integrated) chips. I have no idea if Yamaha has done the same. Either way, the different specs on paper are likely not audible to most people but to the golden ears. It may also make a difference to people (me included) who are sort of obsessed with numbers.

One minor point, the RX-A880's preamp/vol control circuit seems to have a lower output than the RX-A1080 and higher models. Since you seem very sure that you will not ever need additional power so that is a moot point, I thought I should just mention it so you are aware.

.

One minor point, the RX-A880's preamp/vol control circuit seems to have a lower output than the RX-A1080 and higher models. Since you seem very sure that you will not ever need additional power so that is a moot point, I thought I should just mention it so you are aware.

Assuming they don't move into a mansion, additional power shouldn't be a concern even if OP did move into a house. I can easily achieve reference volume in a 2,700 cubic foot space with the much less capable Denon AVR-X1300W using the previous 160m in the series and the smaller 250c (which is less efficient than the 600m).

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[Leemix]

Entry level recievers rarely if ever have real 2 sub support, usually its just an internal y connection while the denon 3500 and up does have real dual sub support. I dont know about yamaha on this but its likly only the upper model range has real dual sub support. Since you use 2 subs its worth keeping in mind.


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[AydnKpRp]

Thanks all, really appreciate the input

It seems that everybody agrees on the Denon 3500H at this price point.

@PENG that's the second time someone brings up ARC issues, but I guess I can't get a perfect AVR for $500. Anything else I should be worried about about this unit?

Thanks a lot for all the guidance!

 

[PENG]

Thanks all, really appreciate the input

It seems that everybody agrees on the Denon 3500H at this price point.

@PENG that's the second time someone brings up ARC issues, but I guess I can't get a perfect AVR for $500. Anything else I should be worried about about this unit?

Thanks a lot for all the guidance!

Nope, not the $500. If you do worry about the 3500, why not spend even less going with the older model. The avr-x3400h should by now, be more proven and debugged via several FW updates. It does not have the IMAX enhanced feature, other than that you won't miss much if anything, compared to the 3500. I have no experience with the 3500, but based on the 3400 it should only be better, and if not, it is a matter of time for it be "perfected" via FW updates. There has been 10 FW updates for the 3400 and 6 for the 3500 so far. Some were feature updates, some were bug fixes. Again, its dac is so much better than the one in the RX-A880 that you included in your list, so much so that the difference may even be audible if you have good ears, speakers and most importantly good quality recordings.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As much as I prefer Yamaha right now, it’s hard to compete when the Denon X3400/3500 is selling for $500.

How do you convince anyone to buy a Yamaha A1080 when the X3500 is $500?

 

[Phase 2]

As much as I prefer Yamaha right now, it’s hard to compete when the Denon X3400/3500 is selling for $500.

How do you convince anyone to buy a Yamaha A1080 when the X3500 is $500?

Yeah Andrew, that Denon X3500 offers a lot plus pre-outs. Plus a 3 year warranty to boot. The reviews are good on it also. I been checking out Pioneer AVR's the Elite 505 seems like a nice unit too.

 

[Phase 2]

Nope, not the $500. If you do worry about the 3500, why not spend even less going with the older model. The avr-x3400h should by now, be more proven and debugged via several FW updates. It does not have the IMAX enhanced feature, other than that you won't miss much if anything, compared to the 3500. I have no experience with the 3500, but based on the 3400 it should only be better, and if not, it is a matter of time for it be "perfected" via FW updates. There has been 10 FW updates for the 3400 and 6 for the 3500 so far. Some were feature updates, some were bug fixes. Again, its dac is so much better than the one in the RX-A880 that you included in your list, so much so that the difference may even be audible if you have good ears, speakers and most importantly good quality recordings.

PENG, I been researching the X3500 and have to say brother your input on AVR'S are really great! Thanks Bro for all the time you put in on AH it doesn't go unnoticed.

 

[PENG]

As much as I prefer Yamaha right now, it’s hard to compete when the Denon X3400/3500 is selling for $500.

How do you convince anyone to buy a Yamaha A1080 when the X3500 is $500?

From now on if anyone accused you of being brand bias, I might defend you.. If they are both selling at list price, the RX-A1080 definite competes well as Yamaha has an edge in terms of reliability track record and HDMI compatibility, just to be fair. The RX-A880 is an odd one, it has pre outs, but other than that it can't compete with the X3000H series or even the Marantz SR5000 series on audio specs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah Andrew, that Denon X3500 offers a lot plus pre-outs. Plus a 3 year warranty to boot. The reviews are good on it also. I been checking out Pioneer AVR's the Elite 505 seems like a nice unit too.

Yeah I still have 2 Denon 3000 series. I also paid about $500 each.

Before I turned to the Yamaha-Darkside, I used to recommend the Denon 3000 series because of the performance-vs-price point. Almost impossible to beat when the price is $500. If it breaks in 5 years or 8 years, it doesn’t hurt as much as buying a $7500 AVP.

But that’s AVR. If we’re talking AVP where there’s usually little discounts, I still recommend the Yamaha CX-A5000 series.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

From now on if anyone accused you of being brand bias, I might defend you.. If they are both selling at list price, the RX-A1080 definite competes well as Yamaha has an edge in terms of reliability track record and HDMI compatibility, just to be fair. The RX-A880 is an odd one, it has pre outs, but other than that it can't compete with the X3000H series or even the Marantz SR5000 series on audio specs.

Yeah I don’t think anyone will recommend the Yamaha A800 series or else KEW will be all over them.

 

[Andrein]

Yeah I don’t think anyone will recommend the Yamaha A800 series or else KEW will be all over them.

Poor a8xx series. Nobody talks about lower denon models but everyone knows about a8xx issues)))

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Poor a8xx series. Nobody talks about lower denon models but everyone knows about a8xx issues)))

Yeah. If you want to go cheap, get the really cheap 300 series Yamaha.

0.1% THD, 1.0% THD
2 Channels Continuously Driven, 8 ohm loads: 70.9 watts, 86.0 watts
2 Channels Continuously Driven, 4 ohm loads 85.9 watts, 112.3 watts
5 Channels Continuously Driven, 8 ohm loads 41.2 watts, 41.8 watts

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-rx-v377-av-receiver-test-bench#JySkWL6ALKX1vPT7.99

So either get the entry 300 series or the 1000, 2000, and 3000 series.

 

[dpanattoni]

Hey all

I need some help to decide which receiver to go for with my home theater set-up. I've already done plenty of research but cannot make a decision... I have probably spent 10-15h reading about receivers and not only can I not find good arguments to pick one receiver against another, I can't even find arguments that justify the price differences between most of them.

Here is my set-up
2 pairs of Klipsch RP-600M (100W cont, 400W peak, 8 ohms) as my front and back speakers
Klipsch RP-600C center speaker (125W cont, 500W peak, 8 ohms)
2 Klipsch SPL-100 subwoofers (200W cont, 450W peak)
LG OLED 65'' C8 TV

I mainly want to use the system for 4K movies (using the TV's apps, so will need to use HDMI ARC, but also planning on setting up a NAS with Plex at some point) and a bit of music listening (Spotify). My flat is not soundproof at all (actually quite the opposite) so I will never push this system to its limits, I'll probably run this at 50% capacity at max

My budget for a receiver is up to $1,000, ideally but I can flex if you have a compelling reason for it.

Here are the ARVs I have considered so far:

• Onkyo TX-NR686 ($399): Not very attracted by this unit as it seems entry level for my system and wouldn't do it justice. Also heard that AccuEQ is a pain to use. However reviews are great all-around, I'm just concerned it might be a great $400 receiver but far from performing as well as a more expensive receiver
• Onkyo TX-NR696 ($649): Didn't find a good justification for the incremental price over the 686
• Denon 3500H ($549): Good deal on this one, initially my top choice. Then heard negative feedback on software issues, ARC compatibility and lower quality DACs compared to other brands like Yamaha. Also Denon just released the 2600H so not sure if worth waiting for that or not, but will not get as good a deal on the 2600 that I can get now on the 3500
• Sony STR-DN1080 ($449): Similar impression to the Onkyo 686, and reviews are also stellar
• Yamaha RX-A680 ($549): Seemed like a good option, but it's the entry model of the AVENTAGE range so not sure if I wouldn't be better off picking a middle-of-the-pack unit in a lower tier range. Also only has 4 HDMI inputs which is too few for me anyway
• Yamaha RX-A880 ($999): Top of my budget, not clear what I am getting over the Denon 3500 at twice the price
• I have looked a bit at other big name brands (Marantz) which are often too expensive. I have not looked at more niche brands however

Disclaimer: I have never owned or shopped for a receiver before. I have not had the chance to listen to any of the above models either

My main considerations when looking at receivers is making sure it is not a bottleneck to anything I want to do:

• It should support generally all video and sound technologies (compatible with my 5.2 set up)
• It should work seamlessly for various use cases without giving me headaches (i.e. 4K movies using TV apps, plugging a NAS server to it, using my PS4, using Spotify...)
• It should be easy to set up and tune
• It should be relatively future-proof (I intend on keeping the unit for a few years)
• I am not too fussed about sound quality (this is subjective, and this is my first system so I don't have any frame of reference to assess SQ)

Any advice is highly appreciated. I know I am probably putting way too much effort into this but I want to make sure I get the right stuff.

Thanks!

I'm wondering if you can give an update as to what your final decision was and how you are liking it?

I too am comparing the Denon X3500 vs the Yamaha A780. Right now I can get either for about the same price. I've spent countless hours reading and comparing the two and each time I get done reading a review, I'm no closer to making the decision.

Thanks in advance.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm wondering if you can give an update as to what your final decision was and how you are liking it?

I too am comparing the Denon X3500 vs the Yamaha A780. Right now I can get either for about the same price. I've spent countless hours reading and comparing the two and each time I get done reading a review, I'm no closer to making the decision.

Thanks in advance.

What do you expect to glean, aside from features or measurements, from a review?

 

[AydnKpRp]

I ended up picking the Denon 3500, that was the consensus after my multiple hours of research and I am very happy with it.

Bear in mind this is my first receiver so I have nothing to compare it to, but the setup was very easy, the sound is amazing (I had a $90 soundbar before so that's not difficult to beat), it works great with movies via HDMI ARC and I stream music via bluetooth which works perfectly well too.

Let me know if you have specific questions I can answer

 

[Leemix]

I ended up picking the Denon 3500, that was the consensus after my multiple hours of research and I am very happy with it.

Bear in mind this is my first receiver so I have nothing to compare it to, but the setup was very easy, the sound is amazing (I had a $90 soundbar before so that's not difficult to beat), it works great with movies via HDMI ARC and I stream music via bluetooth which works perfectly well too.

Let me know if you have specific questions I can answer

Streamed movies or bluray?


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