Receiver EQ question

[Omega Supreme]

This is my first dolby digital receiver. My previous receiver (2 channel) was a Kenwood that I recived for Christmas when I was 14. The tone was all that you could change. 1 bass dial and 1 treble dial. Needless to say when I purchased the Denon 3805 I noticed it was a little bit more complicated than my old Kenwood. My question has to do with the room EQ. 1st off should I even turn it on. My manual says if you use the "Pure Direct" mode it doen't go through the EQ and is the most acurate reproduction of the source you are listening to. With it turned off, movies sound great but the bass seem a little loose. With CD's & T.V. it seems as if the mid's are pushed back and the the highs and the lows are very up front. With the EQ on it seems right the opposite, the mids are very prominate and the highs and lows are pushed back. I have tryed to set up the EQ manualy but its a little over my head. Over all I think is sounds better with the EQ turned off. I keep telling myself that Ive got to be wrong because why would they have an Auto setup/Room EQ if it dosn't make anything sound better. If I would have know this I would not have payed $70 for the setup mic. The probably could be that I am use to listening to listening to my Kenwood and now this Denon sounds diffrent. It does sound a whole lot beter than the old Kenwood but just diffrent. I think the more I play around with it the more I will learn but if anyone has any advise to speed up the proccess please pass it on.

Thanks

 

[eirepaul]

I've had the 3805 for six months (+ microphone) and have not even used the auto EQ yet. I'll get around to it, but it already sounds tremendous with neutral settings in my room. It is a great unit. I'm not one for using tone controls too much anyway.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

This is my first dolby digital receiver. My previous receiver (2 channel) was a Kenwood that I recived for Christmas when I was 14. The tone was all that you could change. 1 bass dial and 1 treble dial. Needless to say when I purchased the Denon 3805 I noticed it was a little bit more complicated than my old Kenwood. My question has to do with the room EQ. 1st off should I even turn it on. My manual says if you use the "Pure Direct" mode it doen't go through the EQ and is the most acurate reproduction of the source you are listening to. With it turned off, movies sound great but the bass seem a little loose. With CD's & T.V. it seems as if the mid's are pushed back and the the highs and the lows are very up front. With the EQ on it seems right the opposite, the mids are very prominate and the highs and lows are pushed back. I have tryed to set up the EQ manualy but its a little over my head. Over all I think is sounds better with the EQ turned off. I keep telling myself that Ive got to be wrong because why would they have an Auto setup/Room EQ if it dosn't make anything sound better. If I would have know this I would not have payed $70 for the setup mic. The probably could be that I am use to listening to listening to my Kenwood and now this Denon sounds diffrent. It does sound a whole lot beter than the old Kenwood but just diffrent. I think the more I play around with it the more I will learn but if anyone has any advise to speed up the proccess please pass it on.

Thanks

I have my parametric eq tweaked a ton, and my speaker distances set almost perfectly. Another big difference is setting all your speakers to small, and using the bass management setting to LFE only and cutoff at 80Hz. I found that when listening to two channel tv, setting the system to DTS Neo 6 "music" is fantastic. I always use the eq as well as the tone controls set to +3 for bass and treble. My room is pretty much dead, so it can use all the help the eq doles out. Finally, you must play with the speaker locations and the angle of the fronts. They should canter in toward you, angled just behind your seating position. The 3805 is an unbelievable receiver once you get the hang of it. It's like finally learning how to use Microsoft Excel and all it's functions.

 

[batman]

Buckeyefan 1, you and I have very similar set ups, and I have been reading many of your posts. I have a few questions for you, hope you can help. I had an HK AVR235, but when i upgraded from monitor 60's to the RTI 12s, the 235 had nowhere near enough power to run them. So I upgraded to the Denon 3805. I'm not real happy with the eq/bass management system the denon offers. I am seriously considering a HK 7300. I don't like the single crossover setting on the Denon. At 60 the center channel and fronts sound awesome, but the bass is somewhat lacking. At 80, the bass is awesome, but the sound quality is degraded. On the HK, the crossover can be individually customized for each channel. Secondly, I have to change all my settings when I jump from source to source (watching movies to music, i.e.). With the HK's every source can be idividually customized and the settings are saved. Am I missing something with the 3805? Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[av-man]

Batman
Trading a Denon 3805 for any HK unit is like trading a BMW for a work van. Go to the manual and check the "personal memory plus" maybe that will help.
Omega,
You jumped in the digital world head first. You picked yourself a great unit. Try changing the location of the microphone and maybe even the height of it and run the set-up again. You could be having acoustic problems in the room that is killing highs and lows in different settings. If you are puting the mic on or in soft furniture this could be the trouble. I've found that using a camera tripod works best for me.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

3805 vs 7300

Buckeyefan 1, you and I have very similar set ups, and I have been reading many of your posts. I have a few questions for you, hope you can help. I had an HK AVR235, but when i upgraded from monitor 60's to the RTI 12s, the 235 had nowhere near enough power to run them. So I upgraded to the Denon 3805. I'm not real happy with the eq/bass management system the denon offers. I am seriously considering a HK 7300. I don't like the single crossover setting on the Denon. At 60 the center channel and fronts sound awesome, but the bass is somewhat lacking. At 80, the bass is awesome, but the sound quality is degraded. On the HK, the crossover can be individually customized for each channel. Secondly, I have to change all my settings when I jump from source to source (watching movies to music, i.e.). With the HK's every source can be idividually customized and the settings are saved. Am I missing something with the 3805? Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

This may not answer your question(s), but here's my honest take on Denon and Polk. The more I listen to my system, the more I like it. It took 3 frustrating months to get things sounding the way I wanted. I had no idea the complexity of these new receivers. My last 5.1 unit, a Sony STRDE925, was so simple. The bass management was fool proof. It worked. Sony has the easiest, most flexible sound management. Like the old 10 band eq's. Not with Denon. Any minor changes on the 3805 changes the bass output. It's a big balancing act. The Denon can sound good, but with weeks of experimenting. Don't give up hope yet.

On to Polk (lets discuss the towers)... Polk engineers kill me. They make these massive 66 and 88lb tower RTi speakers, multiple bass drivers with the highly acclaimed (not by me) power port plus, and I have trouble getting bass from them at moderate levels. I have a very large room, so I can take my 3805 to its limits. I can actually play the 3805 at +2 without distortion, no sub - no bass management, and still hear myself think. All thanks to the sponge effect of Polk Audio. I highly recommend bi amping or adding a secondary 2 channel amp to your RTi12's if overall bass is an issue per se. They are excellent speakers, but require massive amounts of power. I think Matthew assumes we all have Krell monoblocs going to each of his trophies. I know a few Paradigm owners who feel the same way. The Denon will drive these sponges, but you really need to push it to its limits or really tweak the parametric eq at lower levels to get the RTi's to play.

Now to HK. The 7300 was my ultimate choice (even over the dated Denon 5803), but seeing having to double my spending to it over the Denon, I chose the 3805. I planned on adding a secondary 2 channel amp because I knew how the RTi's like the juice. Believe it or not, I still haven't purchased one because the Denon makes due (a bit warm, but a PC fan strategically placed in the cabinet does wonders). The HK7300 is a beast of a receiver. There is nothing close to it that puts out similar power. 1 channel driven at 8 ohms at 1kHz - 202 watts! The exact same test on the massive Denon 5805 only yielded 205 watts. Sure, apples to oranges, but for $1350 and being able to fit more budgets, it's a hell of a deal. My only gripe on the 7300 was this review:

www.epinions.com/content_163673771652

 

[batman]

Buckeyefan 1, I agree, I absolutely love the way these polks sound, incredible midrange and voice reproduction, and the tweeters are not too bright. As for the power port plus, I also give it a not so enthusiastic whoopeee (as I point my index finger up and twirl it sarcastically) But, I didn't buy them for the bass I bought them for the dual 5 1/4's. Of course this is how MY ears feel. Everybody has their own opinion. I will definitely be bi-amping the RTI 12s within the next few weeks regardless of which reciever I end up with. (I have a bid for a marantz 8400 on ubid.com) At half the price of the Denon 3805, it will do until I upgrade to a flagship, which won't happen until my bi-amp and subwoofer issues are resolved. (Which I will be able to do if I get the Marantz.)
I will look into the personal memory plus that av-man suggested, (by the way, great analogy) but I am still left with that "in-between" crossover frequency issue. I feel like I'm in the same boat as omega, I have tweaked a ton, and just can't get it right. I distinctly remember my first impression of the 3805 after I had it hooked up, before ANY tweaking was done. The sound QUALITY was incredible, but I seem unable to improve on it. I agree "NEO 6 music" setting is the cats meow for music playback, but this crossover frequency issue has really got me frustrated. I guess I will have to do some more experimenting. Thanks for your input