Receiver and speaker power balancing

[Ben09]

Basic question - I'm looking for a black and white answer to understand how receiver power output and speak capacity work. I'm going to get an Onkyo TX-SR806 with 130W RMS x 7. How will this fly with speakers that are 130W max? (older Onkyo 6.1 HTIB setup)

I've read a little about potential clipping, but can't tell if that will hurt the receiver. I've also come across a few very technical articles about output/input power that I can't draw a clear conclusion from.

What do I need to know about receiver output power and speaker power handling?

Also, from looking around this site I'm considering one of EMP's speaker packages and tSc's offerings as well. But again, none of the speakers in my range (consider tSc's TSAT2000-HT10 + surrounds, and EMP's HTP-571T 7.1) hit the 130W RMS range. What to do?

 

[lsiberian]

Don't trust wattage ratings from manufacturers. Usually they are ideal and rarely will you meet that.

As far as power works

Basically to double your volume you will need to multiply your watts by 10.

So for example if you

have 50 watts and want to double your volume you need 500 watts.

As you can tell diminishing returns come quickly. Where concern comes in is in the Ohm ratings of your speakers. That's where damage can really be done.

You should be just fine upgrading the receiver on your Onkyo HTIB.

You first upgrade should be a subwoofer. I suggest you strongly consider a DIY option since this can get you the best performance by a long shot. We have several speaker building experts that have given great advice. And they can make it so simple that you can just take it to a car audio place and get them to assemble it for you!

I suggest this before you upgrade your speaker package, but others may disagree. I just know that the HTIB Onkyo's lack a great sub and I think adding one just may delay your upgrade enough for you to build up more funds.

The EMPs however are a great deal and if you are able to pull the trigger then by all means do it. I suggest a 7.1 set just so you can always upgrade later on. you don't have to use it, but the 2 speaker sets cost more than the 7.1 atm.

For receivers. I use an Onkyo SR705 and love it. I got it for 400 online and it's got THX, decodes all formats and 3 hdmi inputs.

Oh yeah and welcome to the forum! Ask away it won't annoy us.

 

[j_garcia]

You aren't going to be playing the receiver at 100% of power typically, so you essentially aren't sending 130W to power the speakers. For this reason, it shouldn't be a problem at all. Power handling for speakers is a MAXIMUM rating and it means that the driver or some component in the x-over can handle that much power before failing, but it isn't likely that a properly setup system will require that kind of output for normal listening.

 

[Midcow2]

Basic question - I'm looking for a black and white answer to understand how receiver power output and speak capacity work. I'm going to get an Onkyo TX-SR806 with 130W RMS x 7. How will this fly with speakers that are 130W max? (older Onkyo 6.1 HTIB setup)

I've read a little about potential clipping, but can't tell if that will hurt the receiver. I've also come across a few very technical articles about output/input power that I can't draw a clear conclusion from.

What do I need to know about receiver output power and speaker power handling?

Also, from looking around this site I'm considering one of EMP's speaker packages and tSc's offerings as well. But again, none of the speakers in my range (consider tSc's TSAT2000-HT10 + surrounds, and EMP's HTP-571T 7.1) hit the 130W RMS range. What to do?

Here is previous explantion I made concerning power, may be a little easier to follow :
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=511324#post511324

The Onkyo 806 at 130 w RMS is a pretty stout AVR (Audio Video Receiver) and should be able to drive most speaker systems.

Concerning speakers, most have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms ( impedance varies with frequency and is not a single value). Lower impedance speakers require more current and hence more power. 4 ohm speakers require twice the current and twice the power of 8 ohm speakers.

Speakers also have an effciciency or sensitivity rating; it is a logritmic scale that is typcally between 80dB and 100dB. 80db is very inefficient and requres a lot of power to make sound, 88-90 dB is typical and 100 dB is high efficiency meaning a lot of sound comes with very little power.

On an AVR or speakers you normally don't run at limits. As long as you meet the minimum speaker power watts and don't exceed the maximum you should be okay. The Onkyo 806 would easily drive the speaker systems you are considering.

However, you need to determine what type of system 2.1, 5.1, 7.1 you want, if you want a spearate subwoofer and how much you want to spend? If possible you should audution the system and see how good it sound to you, because you are the final judge


Good luck!

MidCow2

 

[Ben09]

Thanks for the input guys, were I any smarter with this forum I'd be able to find a way to "thanks" all of you....

This receiver is my first building block to what I hope is a noteworthy mid-range setup, so I'm busy over-thinking and re-thinking everything I'm doing and turning to you experts for a better understanding on how everything works...

Sounds like as long as I'm not cranking it 100% of the time it's on I should be OK with what I have. I was just worried about 1 - frying outmatched speakers and 2 - this clipping phenomenon thing frying my new baby. I can live with #1 as a worst case, #2 might put me in a padded room....

And should I be so unfortunate as to blow the speakers it will only bolster my case with the boss (read: wife) for a new set...

Thanks for the other ideas for my system. I'm working on something I'll wet my pants over during movies and video games and will be back to the forum often for advice! Any other caveats or thoughts on the topic of output/input power balancing will be greatly appreciated as I start stalking my speaker purchase.

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks for the input guys, were I any smarter with this forum I'd be able to find a way to "thanks" all of you....

This receiver is my first building block to what I hope is a noteworthy mid-range setup, so I'm busy over-thinking and re-thinking everything I'm doing and turning to you experts for a better understanding on how everything works...

Sounds like as long as I'm not cranking it 100% of the time it's on I should be OK with what I have. I was just worried about 1 - frying outmatched speakers and 2 - this clipping phenomenon thing frying my new baby. I can live with #1 as a worst case, #2 might put me in a padded room....

And should I be so unfortunate as to blow the speakers it will only bolster my case with the boss (read: wife) for a new set...

Thanks for the other ideas for my system. I'm working on something I'll wet my pants over during movies and video games and will be back to the forum often for advice! Any other caveats or thoughts on the topic of output/input power balancing will be greatly appreciated as I start stalking my speaker purchase.

If you go with your speaker options then you will be just fine. However I did want to let you know that KEF speakers are on blowout at accessories4less and Infinity Betas are going for very good prices on ebay. Both are my favorite brands of speakers. I absolutely love them. For Onkyo a 705 is probably sufficient and best for most mid-fi setups. The higher up receivers are larger and heavy. Plus If you are buying EMPs anything more than 500 dollars for your receiver I think is too much. Remember speakers are far more important than the receiver. And of the speakers most important for movies. I think the Center and the Sub are vital. Dialogue can often suffer on bad soundtracks so having extra oomph in the center isn't a bad thing. Though the 705 has logic to handle that. The sub is very vital to performance. So a good portion of speaker budget should go to it.

My suggested upgrade.

Get two Beta 20s of ebay and a beta 250 center of ebay from Infinity Direct. To upgrade the front speakers. Then use 4 of the Onkyo's as side and rear surrounds for a 7.1 setup. Add a 12" sub from parts-express and get an Onkyo SR705 for a receiver.

I think that would give you a nice boost at a price that would make your boss happier. Remember not to talk about the speakers too much with her. Most bosses really don't care. Just like you don't care about the color of the carpet.

 

[j_garcia]

I agree that your speakers are more important, so the recommendation to spend most of your money on the front three is an excellent suggestion. I also sort of agree on the receiver, however going with a solid receiver early on means you don't have to upgrade it in the near future also, so if you are getting a good deal on it I say go for it. Having a more powerful and superior featured receiver won't hurt you in the long run, but if you could step down to say the 706 and put more towards speakers you might get more bang for your buck.

 

[lsiberian]

I agree that your speakers are more important, so the recommendation to spend most of your money on the front three is an excellent suggestion. I also sort of agree on the receiver, however going with a solid receiver early on means you don't have to upgrade it in the near future also, so if you are getting a good deal on it I say go for it. Having a more powerful and superior featured receiver won't hurt you in the long run, but if you could step down to say the 706 and put more towards speakers you might get more bang for your buck.

Although with the shift to 7.1 formats I do wonder if it might be a good idea to put more into a receiver. I don't see a new format beyond 7.1 and if you get a a good one it will last you for a long time.

This is just thinking of course.

 

[Ben09]

Yeah, speakers (until this discussion) have been a 2nd consideration, but my thoughts always ran to the big names - Paradigm, Def Tech, Polk, etc... I really appreciate the eye-opener that is this web site encouraging look into other brands and not fall for all the marketing hype.

I'm pretty satisfied with my AVR selection, and managed to bridge a gap between entry and high end with the 806 until I have enough fun money to go high end (which ain't gonna be real soon, dang babies...) so now I'm trying to consider/justify making the same mid-range step with speakers.

I'll take a look at everyone's recommendations, but it's sounding like EMP and tSc might not turn out to be a favorite choice? I'll hit up the other forums and see what other unknown values might be out there. Now I'm kinda on the hunt for a high-performing "unknown" that's a lot of bang for the buck (somewhat like how the tSc and EMP were written up).

 

[lsiberian]

Yeah, speakers (until this discussion) have been a 2nd consideration, but my thoughts always ran to the big names - Paradigm, Def Tech, Polk, etc... I really appreciate the eye-opener that is this web site encouraging look into other brands and not fall for all the marketing hype.

I'm pretty satisfied with my AVR selection, and managed to bridge a gap between entry and high end with the 806 until I have enough fun money to go high end (which ain't gonna be real soon, dang babies...) so now I'm trying to consider/justify making the same mid-range step with speakers.

I'll take a look at everyone's recommendations, but it's sounding like EMP and tSc might not turn out to be a favorite choice? I'll hit up the other forums and see what other unknown values might be out there. Now I'm kinda on the hunt for a high-performing "unknown" that's a lot of bang for the buck (somewhat like how the tSc and EMP were written up).

The EMPs will be far superior to the Onkyo speakers. If you want a full set it's probably the best deal going.